The good fence

[Herschel]

http://www.sunspot.net/news/opinion/oped/bal-op.fence23jul23,0,6155973.story?coll=bal-oped-headlines

"For the Palestinians, construction of a fence inside the West Bank sends a clear message that failure to fight terrorism - the proximate rationale for the fence - comes at a steep price. The fear of losing control of territory for an indefinite period, even more than the prospect of gaining statehood, may finally provide the incentive for concerted Palestinian action against terrorists. That's why the fence has provoked an outcry of criticism from Palestinians.

The fence will also trigger important change within Israel, too.

The fence is likely to incorporate under Israeli control the majority of Jewish settlers, who already live very close to the Green Line, but will not include many smaller settlements and wildcat outposts, scattered around the West Bank. If the fence truly does help prevent terrorism, as has been the record of a similar fence that already encircles the Gaza Strip, then it may force Israelis to think more dispassionately about the costs and benefits of maintaining outlying settlements. It is precisely for this reason that the most radical leaders of the settlement movement decry the fence as a Trojan horse.

Taken together, the fence could produce that rare political hat trick: reducing terrorism against Israel, raising the incentive for Palestinians to fight terror themselves and fueling a constructive, self-induced internal Israeli debate about settlements."

This piece was cut to show the important points. Interesting case for the fence.

[Ignoramus]

1. Ah the festering decaying stench of blatant racism...

Could it be any more obvious?

[Herschel]

2. Explain yourself

Why do you see racism?

[Ignoramus]

5. Most likely becuase it is racism that I'm looking at

The idea of the fence is to separate the Palestinians from the Israelis right? The Palestinians are determined to be Palestinian based on their race right? And, the terrorist attacks are considered to be done by people who are Palestinian and "the Palestinians" are said by the Israelis not to be making appropriate attempts to oppose the terrorists. The part in quotes is the racist part.

So, essentially the Israelis are instituting apartheid in order to protect themselves from "the Palestinians" and to encourage the poor deluded Palestinian people to stop the terrorist attacks, since of course all Palestinians know each other and have influence over each other (sarcasm, sorry, I hope you won't take offense).

I'm not very knowledgable about the history of the Israel/Palestine issue, and I don't know anyone who's been killed by a terrorist attack (or a "counter-terrorist" attack), so I can imagine that this could sound like I'm taking the matter lightly, but I think I'm not... I think the only solution is a one state solution where people are not treated differently legally based on their race.

Counter-terrorism can be made illegal (state sanctioned "counter-terrorism" I mean). Terrorism can be made illegal, but that doesn't do anything. Terrorism is a phenomenon and you can't pass a law against a phenomenon. Counter-terrorism is terrorism. Terrorism is bad, it like kills people and is generally unpleasant, or so I've heard. So, I think the appropriate thing is to use the law and police action. Make counter-terrorism illegal, and arrest individuals engaged in or conspiring in terrorist acts. Of course, that will not be an instant solution, but I think there is no easy solution. As an analogy holding a gun to someone's head does not make you secure. You can't just keep doing that forever. The only solution is to work toward mutual respect, which involves taking the gun away in some fashion.

[Herschel]

9. Listen

The fence passing the Green Line is to show the Palestinians there is a steep price for not controlling terror. As said, a fence at the Green Line encourages more terror.

[dfong63]

3. there's an old saying,

... that "good fences make good neighbors", but i don't think that saying applies to a "fence" that slices your neighbor's property in half.

a "fence" that does that is a blatant land grab.

[Darranar]

11. I agree...

For now, in the current fragile situation, a fence through the Green Line (not including East Jerusalem) could be accepted, but one that cuts the Palestinian land in half is simply cruel and immoral.

[tinnypriv]

4. Ah

Stop terrorism or we ethnically cleanse you.

Wonderful logic!

[Gimel]

6. Non-solutions

The Palestinians want to be called Palestinians and they want their own country. They want to elect their own leaders, and not be governed by Jews sho sing a Jewish national anthem.

How are two states "ethnic cleansing"?

Building a fence does change the defacto situation on the ground for the immediate vicinity, but land continues to grow and produce and scars heal. They don't want compensation for the land. They want to be personally injured in the event so they can continue a war.

Only the stop of terrorism (violent ethnic cleansing) can bring peace.

[CitizenDick]

7. "They don't want compensation for the land."

I think they have a right to not accept compensation for the land. A land grab isn't justified by offering to compensate someone after the fact. If Israel wanted to aquire the land, they should have reached an agreement up front.

"They want to be personally injured in the event so they can continue a war." That's a harsh statement about people who are objecting to their land being stolen. Israel builds a wall, encompassing territory beyond the green line, and your conclusion is the Palestinians are the ones continuing the conflict?

"Only the stop of terrorism (violent ethnic cleansing) can bring peace." Your claim that terrorism amounts to ethnic cleansing is dubious. It's an attempt to influence Israeli policy toward the Palestinians.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Darranar]

16. I'm not sure about this one...

but I don't think it is against the rules. I will let the moderators do as they see fit, for they know better than I, but I'll state my opinion here.

newyorican is saying that Gimel's statement is racist nonsense, not that she herself is racist. One who believes racist nonsense is not neccesarily racist himself, he simply has been convinced by racists of something that isn't moral or true.

I could believe, which I don't, that the settlements are a good thing, because the Jews deserve that land and the Palestinians don't. I view that belief as pretty much racist and religious nonsense; however, those who do believe it could simply be convinced by the "facts" that the racists put out for those who are not as radical as they are. Those who are convinced that way are not racist; simply ignorant and misguided.

By the way, I do not believe that Gimel's statement is "racist nonsense." I don't understand part of it, but most of the rest I agree with.

[tinnypriv]

10. Sometimes you sound quite reasonable

Other times, less so.

I mean, come on - they want to be injured and killed and have their land taken away? Lame.

[Name removed]

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[papau]

12. the wall is a problem Bush said

I think the wall is a problem and I've discussed that with Ariel Sharon,'' Bush said. ``It is very difficult to develop confidence between the Palestinians and Israel with a wall snaking through the West Bank.''

[Jackie97]

17. The fence is promoting terrorism.

It promotes terrorism because it's being built right through areas where Palestinians go to work at. If they can't work, then they can't get their bread and butter. If they can't get their bread and butter, then they'll fight the people who put them in that position.

What pro-Israelis don't seem to understand at all is that this ISN'T ALL ABOUT THEM. A Palestinian who is watching their family constantly drink dirty water or no water at all, watching their children die of military attacks and so forth is NOT going to consider fighting attacks against their oppressor to be the number one priority.

[Darranar]

18. They'd better not...

Sp why are all those Palestinian families sending their children to "martyrdom" inside Israel, massacring dozens of Israeli civilians?