Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Tel Aviv elementary school: No Arabs allowed

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine Donate to DU
 
ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 07:53 PM
Original message
Tel Aviv elementary school: No Arabs allowed


Parents at Hatikva neighborhood's Hagalil School outraged by decision to integrate Arab students in classes, say their concerns are for school's academic level, not racially motivated
Meirav Shlomo Published: 12.08.08, 08:39 / Israel News

Hagalil Elementary School in southern Tel Aviv's Hatikva neighborhood has been the focal point of a new conflict between some of the parents and the administration.

The strife centers on the City School Board's decision to integrate two Arab students in the school a move which many of the parents oppose. Other parents, however, called their peers' reaction acism.

Some of the Jewish students' parents have said they intend to sign a petition calling to cease the admission of Arab students to the school, and that they will send the petition to the school administration and the City School Board.

The parents claim that the move is academically motivated and has nothing to do with racism, citing they are simply concerned that the academic level of the classes may drop, if students who are struggling with Hebrew are integrated in the school.

Legitimate concerns or racism?

Nevertheless, some of the parents have no problem speaking their mind: "We dont want Arab students in our school and its not just us our kids don't want them in their classrooms," said one of the mothers.

"The School Board already dumped the African kids here and now they're bringing in the Arab kids without even telling us. They can't speak Hebrew well, they're having trouble in class and it's hurting the academic level.

"Anyone who doesnt understand the fuss over only two students should take a look at Hayarden School (another elementary school in the area). It started with a few students and all of a sudden the parents found that there are dozens of refugees in the school. That's what brought it (academically) down," she said.

But not all parents share this opinion. "This is outrageous," said one of the fathers. "We just dont understand these parents. It's sad to realize we're living in a racist, ugly society. We welcome the Arab students."

read on...
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3634944,00.ht...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. At least they are part of an open society
which can have disagreements on such matters.

Clearly, not ALL parents are in favor of keeping out Arab students,contrary to laws that prevent Jews to even live, much less be educated, in most of the Arab countries.

Do you think that is racist?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Absolutely. Even throughout history, even where "tolerant,"
I completely agree with you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 03:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. Clearly some of the parents are vile racists. Sorry, but that's obvious
And the fact that this school is currently all Jewish is an indictment in and of itself.

This isn't about disagreements. It's about ugly bigotry.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 04:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Still doesn't excuse these parents
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 04:17 AM by LeftishBrit
I daresay not ALL parents were in favour of segregation in Southern American schools; but it still didn't make it a good thing. Nor, in my opinion, something that should be decided through debate and popular vote. Fortunately, the laws and courts in Israel may well defeat these actions. The overall problem in Israeli education is more one of de facto segregation than explicitly barring Arabs/Jews/immigrants/Africans from certain schools.

Most of the Arab states are racist and have bad laws. That doesn't excuse Israelis or anyone else from being racist. Racism is bad, whoever's doing it. I hope it changes everywhere.



I like this organization:

http://www.handinhand12.org /


ETA: in this particular case, the racism seems to be not just against Arabs, but strongly against non-white immigrants: a familiar sort to me in the UK!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. The difference in the racism is that it is not INSTITUTIONAL racism
in Israel, as it is in Arab countries.

Even in this article it is clear that MOST parents were shocked and appalled that a few parents felt that Arabs shouldn't be allowed at the school.

By no means was this a school sanctioned or state sanctioned sentiment.

Therein lies the difference.

There are always a few kooks or racists, but the entire society is not racist towards Arabs, since they are well integrated in all schools and part of society.

(contrary to the Arab countries, which are 100% racist and bigoted towards Jews).

But let;s not concern ourselves with institutional or state-sanctioned racism in the rest of the world!

Let's focus instead on a couple parents, whose views don't match the majority of other parents, and certainly not of the government or state, in Israel!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. Let's give this to you in terms you can understand...
Here's the scenario: Somewhere in the US there's a public school where two Jewish students are being integrated. Many of the parents are opposed to this and state their intention to sign a petition to call for the prevention of these Jewish kids being enrolled. One of the parents says: "We dont want Jewish students in our school and its not just us our kids don't want them in their classrooms". And then these parents go on to say after complaining that they don't want Jewish kids in the school, what a relief it was to get rid of the African American students, coz you let one in, there'd be a flood of them just like a school down the road....

Now, what would you think if a story like that was posted and someone came along and posted the following?

'At least they are part of an open society which can have disagreements on such matters.

Clearly, not ALL parents are in favor of keeping out Jewish students,<insert look-over-there rant about pet peeve here>

Do you think that is racist?'

Here's what I'd think. I'd be thinking to myself there's something seriously wrong with that post and whoever posted it has some issues if they see it as being merely disagreement in an open society and seem to deliberately ignore the point that what they're actually cherishing and describing as mere disagreement is ugly bigotry. And then when they finish off a post with a Look Over There! Moment and go 'do you think that is racist?', I think that's really hypocritical and displaying incredible double standards, as racism and bigotry isn't labelled as such when it's aimed at the group in the story that they were replying to...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Ditto quotes here
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 08:08 AM by azurnoir
which seek to "clean it up" as long as the school allows the children to attend there is really no issue, as far as the African children even Bush enacted laws allowing children to attend school despite alleged "legal" status.
I agree with the poster here that suggested that children of parents that objected to children attending "integrated" attend private schools, in the US there are also such private schools for I suspect similar reasons, private institutions in the US can discriminate however I believe,can not receive federal funds.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. The US is not Israel
I do not think that is a fair analogy.

That said, the comment cited in the article is clearly bigoted and racist.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. No the US is not Israel
however I was truly surprised that Israel might deny children education based on national origin, or immigration status.
As far as private schools that discriminate I pointed out how that AFAIK works in the US it was not a comparison to Israel.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Not a fair analogy? Can you explain?
Of course those parents are racist and bigoted but it's the response to the article I'd like to hear yr thoughts on. Would you think such a response would be just a bit strange if the targets of the bigotry was Jewish or Arab students?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Here is an excerpt from Human Rights Watch
This is an excerpt from Human Rights Watch from 2001 (I believe there have been some changes since this report was published):

From their first day in kindergarten until they reach university, Palestinian Arab and Jewish children almost always attend separate schools. Palestinian Arab children are taught in Arabic, Jewish children in Hebrew. The two systems' curricula are similar but not identical. For example, Hebrew is taught as a second language in Arab schools, while Jewish students are not required to study Arabic.

There is little support in Israel for integrating Jewish and Arab schools. Although there are a few well-known exceptions, including several mixed kindergartens and private experiments with peace education, even these efforts are experiencing great strain since the confrontations in October 2000 in which Israeli police killed thirteen Palestinian Arab citizens. No one Human Rights Watch interviewed, either Jewish or Palestinian Arab, expressed a desire for integration, although Palestinian Arab students were often quite enthusiastic about school-related exchange programs with Jewish children. Rather than seeking integration, many Palestinian Arab citizens are asking for autonomy over their education system.

http://www.hrw.org/legacy/reports/2001/israel2/ISRAEL09...

Those and other differences, I feel, make the analogy with the United States problematic.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 04:24 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. And how does that affect the gist of what I was getting at?
I'm not really following what yr getting at here, Oberliner. I could also trot out things to show that it's not a perfect analogy, but like yrs, none of them change the fact that there's no mitigating circumstances for a response to an article about the racism and bigotry of parents at a school that portrays that bigotry and racism as mere disagreement rather than the ugly thing it is. It's just as ugly if it's aimed at Jewish children or Arab children, and I'd like to know what yr opinion is of the response that portrayed the bigotry as mere disagreement and whether you would hold the same opinion if that response was to an article where the bigotry was aimed at Jewish children...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Exactly why said poster is on my "ignore" list.
DU is not a place where I go expecting to read RW and racist opinion, and I think it's sad that there's so much of it in this forum that I've had to put so many on ignore just to make the place readable. :(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Supporting Israel is not "right wing or racist"
Take it up with the President elect, who shares my views exactly, as do almost every member of Congress.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Supporting Israel's rightwing and racist policies is righwing and racist
When are the Diaspora Jews going to tell Israel to shape up or get frak?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 04:37 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. And they didn't say it was, but you already knew that...
They said they don't come here expecting to read RW or racist opinions, they didn't say anything about 'supporting' Israel...

Yr posts have contained varying degrees of RW and bigoted comments. How dare you say that Obama shares yr views exactly! Could you link me to where he's ever talked bigoted crap like 'culture of death' and RW crap like the Palestinians being on the global dole? That sort of rubbish is too extreme even for more moderate Republican pollies...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Holy shit, I got a response from another "ignored".
Anyone want to PM me and tell me what it says? :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 04:41 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. You diddn't miss much...
It's the same old, same old :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
28. Right .... Like Alabama was under George Wallace

And care to say what "Arab countries" make it illegal for Jewish people to live?

Do they just round up anyone thought to be Jewish and execute them?

Provide some credible news links please.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. "White Only"
"The School Board already dumped the African kids here..."

Those "African kids" are Jews! A prime example of the racism that permeates what passes for today's Zionism.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 02:44 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. "The parents' complaints are unjustified"
That quote comes from a representative of the government itself.

You chose a quote from one racist parent - the likes of which could be found in pretty much every country in the world.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
henank Donating Member (755 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Just a note about the African children
Without wishing to make any comment about Arab children in the school, as far as I understand, the African kids to whom the parents are referring are not Jews - they are either children of Sudanese refugees or foreign workers - both of which groups' status is only partially legal if at all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Christopher300 Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
23. Whites only?
That would seem to apply more to the Arab worldthan to Israel.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Grimm Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
4. Those are some disgusting opinions
But let's at least keep some perspective here. What we have are an unknown number of racist, bigoted and downright despicable group of parents versus a similarly unknown number of tolerant, progressive parents AND the school AND the city school board AND the ministry of education. The last quote of the article wasn't in the original post, but it's very clear that this protest is futile and not supported by anyone of importance.

If a parent finds it so objectionable that their child is interacting with children of other ethnicities at such an impressionable age (and I truly question how someone can be so disgusting to think that), then they have the right to send their children to a yeshiva or a Jewish-religion specific school. They don't and should never have the right to deny public education access to other children whose only "fault" is to not be a "proper" Jew in their eyes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
24. Israelis voice horror at rejection of Arab child from Jewish daycare
<snip>

"An Israeli Arab couple from northern Israel enjoyed outpourings of support on Thursday, the day after Channel 10 broadcast a story detailing the rejection of their 2-year-old daughter from a Jewish daycare near their home.

Mayssa and Shua'a Zuabi sought to place their daughter Dana in a daycare in Moshav Merchavia, but the teacher, who was initially supportive, told them Dana could not enroll due to the opposition of other parents.

On Thursday, Mayssa and Shua'a received countless phone calls from Israelis expressing their horror and support. Several principals also called to invite Dana to join their daycares."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050145.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. The daycare's action is disgusting! I am glad to hear that many Israelis strongly object and support
the family!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Take the positive
That there were more who were willing to open their doors than not.

L-
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
backwoodsbob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
27. this is an interesting header to the OP
The header reads: Tel Aviv elementary school: No Arabs allowed


But the first paragraph says:
Parents at Hatikva neighborhood's Hagalil School outraged by decision to integrate Arab students in classes,



Shouldn't the header say Arab students ARE allowed since clearly the school IS allowing the children?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Aug 21st 2014, 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC