Israel closes Gaza crossings

[Scurrilous]

<snip>

"Israel says it will not open its border crossings with the Gaza Strip after several rockets were fired into southern Israel.

Restrictions at the Karni, Nahal Oz, Erez and Sufa crossings, which handle traffic between Israel and the territory, were eased following a ceasefire agreed with the Hamas movement.

The crossings were to have opened at 8am (05:00 GMT) on Wednesday but Peter Lerner, an Israeli military liaison official, said that they would stay closed until further notice.

"We are keeping the Karni, Sufa and Nahal Oz crossings closed for the time being following the firing of rockets in flagrant violation of the truce deal," he told the AFP news agency.

Al-Quds, the military wing of the Islamic Jihad movement, took responsibility for the three rockets fired on Tuesday which caused some damage and slight injuries to two people in the Israeli town of Sderot.

They said that the attacks were a response to an Israel in the West Bank town of Nablus earlier in the day in which two Palestinian were killed."

more

[Vegasaurus]

1. Of course the borders should remain closed

Opening them was part of the truce deal, and Hamas and the militants simply cannot keep from trying to kill Israelis.

Since they broke the truce, the closings close.

If they want the closings open, they should quit trying to kill Israelis.

I know it's a lot to ask, but maybe they would rather eat and have diapers and fuel.

No, militants prefer to kill Israelis and couldn't even keep up the truce for one week.

Pathetic.

[azurnoir]

2. And perhaps if Israel

is concerned about the safety of it's citizens it should make killing Palestinians in both the West Bank and Gaza less of a priority too, but then the truce did not say they couldn't kill Palestinians in the West Bank did it, so its all good right.
How predictable, I had hoped for better, I have seen claims that Hamas or the Palestinians should have "known" that Israel would kill on the West Bank and that is why it was not included in the truce, by the same token Israel should have known that IJ would respond.

[pelsar]

3. excuses?

whats difficult to understand......Hamas entered into an agreement...and failed to live up to it. IJ in gaza is a hamas responsibility...thats what comes with governing or are you claiming that hamas can enter agreements knowing full well that they really cant live up to it...and that is ok with you?

[azurnoir]

4. And are you now claiming Israel did not know this?

And perhaps act accordingly? Maybe they should read AsiaTimes they knew a week ago. Sometimes it is not can we or can't we but should we or shouldn't we? Depends on what is really the desired outcome doesn't it?

All the same, the ceasefire is not expected to last. Certainly that is the mood among people from all walks of life in Israel's capital Jerusalem, and it is clearly the expectation of Olmert himself. "I have no illusions," he said in a recent speech. "What is called 'calm' is fragile and short-lived. Hamas has not changed its skin. These are blood-thirsty and despicable terrorists who even today are doing everything they can to harm Israeli civilians. Hamas ... will be responsible for any violation of the 'quiet'."

This last condition effectively sets Hamas up for a fall, for, contrary to perceptions, Hamas is itself not in full control of the Gaza Strip, which is home to numerous other militant groups which do not answer blindly to Hamas' commands. Olmert is effectively making Hamas responsible for the actions of people over whom they have little control; and by enforcing such a restrictive condition will greatly increase the chances of a violation of the ceasefire.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JF21Ak01.html

[Vegasaurus]

5. The terms of the truce were that Hamas would control the militants

the fact that they didn't or couldn't isn't Israel's fault.

I know that you believe that the poor pathetic Palestinians simply couldn't "help themselves", that they just had to shoot off some rockets at Israel, that after all, it is Israel's fault that they shot the rockets even (what, were Israelis behind them, pulling the trigger?).

At what point, if ever, will the Palestinians ever take a single bit of responsibility for anything in their lives?

Or do they plan to spend from now into the next millenium crying and blaming Israel for all their problems?

THEY broke the truce.

Their problem. Their stupidity.

Of course it was expected. They just can't seem to make a better life for themselves that doesn't involve murdering Israelis.

That's why they have never kept a truce.

[azurnoir]

7. Simple answers for simple monorail minds n/t

[Vegasaurus]

10. Simple answers yes

Break the truce and you don't get the benefits that you negotiated for.

That's how things work in the real world, not the pretend world of the Palestinians, where they lay blame for all their myriad problems at the feet of others.

If they want to make negotiations and be treated like a real government, then it is high time they begin acting like one.

[azurnoir]

11. They are acting like a government

whether you like or are able to admit it, they that is Hamas have reaffirmed their commitment to the truce. Has Israel claimed responsibility for the settler rocket attack last Friday in the West Bank? No, but they don't have to do they, it is just Hamas who must take responsibility

[pelsar]

15. does reaffirming mean more rockets will fall on israel?

how are they upholding the truce when they made it clear that they will not stop the rockets from flying out of gaza? (at best they will try to convince the others "not to"-while IJ said they will continue..)

nice try about the settler rocket....but it was in the westbank........not part of the agreement (try again...i'm sure you can find something israel is doing to provoke them-maybe its an IDF solder giving the finger to someone in hebron)

____

sure is getting harder and harder to find something that israel did to "provoke them"....but its got to be something, they wouldnt break the truce without having good reason.......i know.....it could be the drivers of the supply trucks "looked at them funny"

[azurnoir]

17. Try again? no it is too entertaining

reading your explanations, however Israel has decided to reopen the crossings over the weekend.

Now for who's fault oh of course the it's the Arabs Israel what Israel did was legal, why we do it everyday they should be used to it by now, and gosh we only kill when something goes wrong.

So can it be said your are a Ehud Barak supporter? Because as I asked before there seems to be two distinct things going on here as I asked olmert agreed to the truce did Barak oder the raid?

[pelsar]

18. the attempt is to clarify who is at fault for breaking the ceasefire.....

Hamas, the ruling govt says it will stop the rockets...IJ ignores them and fires rockets, Hamas says they will not use force to stop them, IJ says they will continue.

Israel, on the other hadn, has done everything it agreed to in the agreement

___________

and you are trying very hard to make israel guilty of breaking the agreement by bringing up events which are not included (i assume that i dont have to say it again that the agreement was just about gaza..or do you bring the up the westbank since its the only way you can find to blame israel for something?)......did i get that right?

[sabbat hunter]

19. Israel took responsibility

by arresting the person who was behind the rocket attack.

What responsibility is Hamas taking?

[Vegasaurus]

20. Oh?

Hamas has "reaffirmed their commitment to the truce"?

They have just said they can't or won't control the other militants!

What kind of truce is that?

Close up the gates completely until Hamas holds to its word.

In the meantime, their "truce" is complete bullshit.

[pelsar]

6. knew what?

that hamas cant control the various groups in gaza?....Hamas claims that govern gaza and are in control....if they arent then its pretty absurd to negotiate with them if they cant keep their side of the bargain.

if that is what you believe, then why should israel even negotiate with them?

would you negotiate with somebody knowing full well that they cant/wont keep their side?

[azurnoir]

8. Perhaps the Israeli government needs to read AsiaTimes

who apparently had a better line on things then they did

[pelsar]

9. so you believe....

that hamas cant keep its own agreements?

[azurnoir]

13. I do not believe either way

are you saying Israel did believe Hamas could? Is your government that misinformed?

[pelsar]

14. you dont believe what either way?

this is a very simple concept:

if a govt/person cant keep to a commitment, why should they enter the commitment in the first place? and shouldnt they be held responsible when they fail?

___

as far as what the israeli govt knew or believed.....the same could be said about leaving gaza, everybody i knew every newspaper i read all believed that soon after leaving the rockets would start landing all over the gaza border area and beyond.....

[azurnoir]

16. OK what I believe is that Israel knew full well

Hamas could not control IJ and that the raid on Tuesday night where apparently "something went wrong" was a poke and the response was expected, but here is were I must ask Olmert OKed the peace deal, but did he or Barack OK the raid? Is there a political game going on here? It does seem in some ways that the Israeli government is trying to walk in both directions at once.

[pelsar]

21. i doubt barak or olmert oked the raid...

like i wrote...its a "nightly affair"...and they work on intelligence. The decisions for the raids doesnt go that high in the command structure. Perhaps the raids last night might "provoke' hamas...or the ones happening right now?........

all of that is irrelevant; Hamas, IJ, Al Aska brigades, Fatah, IDF, all know about the raids.......and their frequency. Knowing that Hamas committed to stop the rockets...and they failed. Perhaps they believe they could, perhaps it was no more than a PR trick knowing full well that no matter what they do, there will be those in the west that will do their work for them and blame israel......

i'm always amazed at just how far people will go to find something to blame israel for, thereby removing the responsibility from the Gaza/Palestinian govt.

[azurnoir]

23. The headlines in the Arab press

read that it was Barak not Israel as Israeli press reads


Barak orders Gaza crossings sealed

http://www.moqavemat.ir/?lang=en&state=showbody_news&row_id=30103

http://www.moqavemat.ir/?lang=en&state=showbody_news&row_id=30103

about the second link unfamiliar with site, not posted to offend

now about this part

and they work on intelligence. The decisions for the raids doesnt go that high in the command structure. Perhaps the raids last night might "provoke' hamas...or the ones happening right now?

under"normal" conditions I would agree, but right now that there are not OK's from higher ups seems irresponsible, not to mention the political goings on in Israel earlier this week which had Olmert and Barak at odds

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vegasaurus]

22. Israel keeps Gaza borders sealed in wake of rocket fire

http://www.metimes.com/Politics/2008/06/26/israel_keeps_gaza_borders_sealed_in_wake_of_rocket_fire/afp/



JERUSALEM (AFP) Israel maintained a tight seal around the Gaza Strip on Thursday, keeping the impoverished territory's borders closed two days after Palestinian militants fired rockets in breach of a truce.
"The Gaza crossings are still closed," said military spokesman Peter Lerner, but he added that the Eretz terminal remained open for humanitarian purposes.