The Palestinians' time is running out

[Phx_Dem]

For my Palestinian friends, with sadness:

I understand why you long ago came to believe that time was on your side. I understand the many factors, demographic, cultural, historic, geo-political, which have served to reinforce that belief, the strong conviction that Palestinian statehood was inevitable, inalienable - in every sense, a matter of time.

I understand why you have come to believe that the state of Israel is merely the latest in a long series of fleeting colonial episodes, that its roots are elsewhere, its strength is illusory, its endurance eroded, its spirit broken, its future dim. I understand that you believe you can wait these people out, wear them down, outfight them and out-believe them and out-populate them and, in the end, take them over.

I understand that you believe that rockets and mortars from the north, south, east, and, eventually, west, can depopulate and peel back and obliterate the borders of pre-1967 Israel until there will be no need to agree to a Jewish state on those borders, no need to compromise on refugees, Jerusalem, settlements, no need to talk, no need for self-scrutiny and reconsideration, no need to bend.

I understand that you believe that this is your right, religiously, morally, politically. I understand why you believe that you can wait.

But this month, three generations since 1948, since your Nakba, this is what I ask you to consider:

Your time is running out.

More at:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/985341.html

[The Magistrate]

1. Sadly, Sir, That Is A Pretty Good Analysis....

[pelsar]

2. wish i could have written that well...

its a very good analysis of the way i see it...

We in the media coddled you, supported you, cast you as the noble underdog. In response, you decided that the Jews control the media, take Israel's side, slander the cause of Palestine. (i would add endless accusations of genocide, ethnic cleansing, concentration camps, etc)

Look again.
Your celebration of terror has alienated many of your closest friends.
You did this. You. No one else. You have convinced exactly those Israelis who were willing to trade the West Bank for peace, that this would be a literally fatal error.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

3. Hogwash.

Palestinians could be perfect in every way and TPTB in Israel would create new hoops for uberperfection, drum up new reasons to subjugate and discriminate, create new barriers, and continue, as they have done since DAY ONE OF THE OCCUPATION, to continue to steal and settle land.

The occupation isn't there because Palestinians are bad boys and girls, or hold wrong beliefs. The occupation grows from the belief of the Jewish people of Israel that the land belongs to THEM. Certainly not every Israeli believes this, but those who do wield the power to do as they wish. They settle the land, not as punishment, but as a matter of ideology.

Do you honestly contend, that if the Palestinians were "better," "average" Israelis would suddenly deveop the care and concern to do the moral thing? Do you believe American Zionists, whose reasons for supporting a militarily mighty Israel include have a "safe haven" in case things go bad for them here... "just in case"... and for those impotent jerks to get a hard-on at the thought of the Uzis and the IDF (sort of a "6 days, bitch!") mentality...

Excuse me for not jumping on board with that.

I content that Palestinians need better, smarter, more effective resistance, not submission.

[Vegasaurus]

4. Before an occupation by Israelis

there was an occupation by Egyptians and Jordanians, and the Palestinians made no effort to get a state then either.

It has nothing to do with the Palestinians being "perfect", but stopping terrorism, violence, national efforts to murder JEws and take over Israel rather than getting their own act together, is what is making their lives miserable.

It is not "occupation", is is Jews in the middle east. Only the Palestinians and their enablers seem unable to see what others can see, and are unable to look beyond their own victimhood.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

7. Cut the crap. How much land did the Egyptians and Jordanians steal and settle on? nt

[Vegasaurus]

13. Everything they could

and left the Palestinians festering in refugee camps, refusing to give them citizenship.

And they remain there today.

Blame the Arab world for heralding the Palestinian cause and not doing a damn thing to help them.

[pelsar]

6. the article takes the long way around...but it speaks of

the poor strategy the Palestinians have used over and over again.....

the occupation grew out of mistakes the arabs nations and Palestinians made.....(and a couple major blunders on the israeli side)


and infact i agree with you:
I content that Palestinians need better, smarter, more effective resistance, not submission..

btw there is no "morality" in intl politics, there is only power, pressure and limited resources

[ProgressiveMuslim]

8. So at least we agree that the situation would not be different if Palestinians were "better"

at being occupied.

It is about power and pressure.

And to think that ordinary Israelis would apply more pressure to their gov't if Palestinians were "better" is bullshit.

The world needs to apply enough pressure so that the price of a 40+ year subjugation becomes too painful to pay.

[pelsar]

9. its about intelligent use of power and pressure....

ordinary israelis put the pressure on the govt during intifada i, because its was, an intelligent use of pressure, it affected israel in a way that the ordinary israeli demanded change from the govt....after that the PA and Arafat took over..and went back to their usual destructive ways.....

hamas further blew it......by making their message so clear, without the fog of occupation to justify their actions....

[ProgressiveMuslim]

11. Maybe it's time for a different kind of pressure, as in the international community

isolating Israel.

I don't have much faith in the Israeli electorate.

[Vegasaurus]

14. Sometimes even those who see are blind

Read what Pelsar said.

Gaza shows everyone that the terrorism isn't the result of "occupation", no matter how many times you say it is.

[pelsar]

15. its not south africa....

S. Africa had real apartheid....it was clearly wrong...and it required dismantling of the state. The I/P conflict is far more muddled....whereas you will see where israel is "clearly wrong" there are arguments on the other side that see the exact opposite....

.....the rise or further publication (which ever you prefer) of extremists islamic terror has only harmed the Palestinian cause...and it has its affects on the world community, not the nice protestors at the universities but the real people with power, the ones that run the governments.

i get the feeling they like that israel being in the middle of a continuing conflict....it serves so many purposes for so many countries, in europe and in the middle east.

[Vegasaurus]

17. Of course they like Israel in the middle

If the focus is on Israel, then the focus is not on the Arabs' own rogue dictatorships.

Keep the rallying cry on global jihad and those hated Jews, and maybe people won't notice the poverty, lawlessness, lack of human rights, etc.

[The Magistrate]

10. The Problem With That Formulation, Ma'am

Is that anything that might actually constitute the 'better, smarter, more effective resistance' you desire would be denounced roundly as 'submission' and even 'collaboration' in the prevailing political climate of Arab Palestine. In many ways this strikes me as the actual point of the article above.

One feature of such a 'better, smarter, more effective resistance' would have to be the absolute relinquishing of military action. This, viewed rationally, should be no difficulty, as military action has proved absolutely futile as a means of securing any benefit, in any field, for the people of Arab Palestine. Indeed, it is resorted to for two reasons and two reasons only. First, for emotional gratification, to provide the warm glow of thinking at least something is being done to cause some degree of pain to an enemy, and second, in order to goad the enemy into actions that cause suffering to the people of Arab Palestine, which brings direct benefit in terms of recruitment to the militant bodies, and which it is imagined will eventually turn world opinion against Israel as a paragon of evil and brutality. But that latter card has got about all the mileage it can, and it has failed, and will continue to fail, to mobilize the world effectively against Israel. We all have, after all, great fortitude when bearing the sufferings of others, and the threshold for cracking that is so far above what occurs in the Israel v. Palestine matter that it is out of reach as a thirty-foot bar to a high jumper. The simple careerism of militant leadership, for by now that is all that it is, is a motive for violence no more respectable, and no more fruitful, than the self-aggrandizement and self-perpetuation of any criminal gang. To employ violence for mere emotional gratification, for the sending of a message, is something more in the field of aberrant psychology than that of military endeavor. But when something has been clung to hard for nigh on ninety years, it simply is not going to be let go willingly any time soon, and the idea of glorious struggle, conceived as violence it is hoped will frighten the Jews into flight, has been clung to that hard, and that long, and in the face of overwhelming evidence it has not, and will not ever, succeed. So on this score, the prospects seem grim for any favorable development.

A second feature of such a 'better, smarter, more effective resistance' would have to be forthright acceptance of the existence of Israel, a recognition that its establishment is not going to be reversed, that its establishment was not a crime, and its perpetuation is not a crime. Until this is done (and there is no point in crying up a few alterations to a document here and there, or some veiled statements by a leader now and then, for what is necessary is a sea-change in the entire political and cultural climate of Arab Palestine), it will not be possible to establish a viable state of Arab Palestine, that can exercise real sovereignty within recognized boundaries, including control of immigration and regulation of alien residents on its soil. It is one of the enduring mysteries of this situation that the political leadership of Arab Palestine has declined, and continues to decline, to declare itself a sovereign state: this is, after all, one of the first things movements of national liberation typically do. It is hard by now to avoid the conclusion that the reason they have not done this is because they will not accept the present boundaries such a state would necessarily have, and imagine 'recovery' of territory now part of Israel to be a serious possibility in the future. It is not. And while this pipe-dream is clung to, the actual territory such a state might claim as a matter of practical fact continues to dwindle. The security barrier, fast becoming a new de facto boundary for Israel, has taken a sizeable bite out of it just since the launching of the 'second intafada', chock-ful of glorious martyrdom and studded with dead Israelis as it might have been. There will be further encroachments as the thing cripples on in its present course. The boundaries that could have been had in '47, by mere acceptance of the Partition, begin to seem positively roomy by compare to present lines and worsening future prospects.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

12. I do think militarism has failed, in spite of Hezbollah's success in

Lebanon.

And I also think "recognition" of Israel is not the issue. Who in Palestine doesn't recognize Israel's existence? That's ludicrous. Israel should give up its childish demand to have its "right" to existence recognized.

What's the boundary Magistrate? Have you looked at a map of the WB lately?

Perhaps you should look at a map...

http://www.mideastweb.org/map_israel_settlements.htm

[The Magistrate]

18. It Is Not, Ma'am, Remotely 'Childish'

Indeed, it is mandated by United Nations Resolution that the right of all states in the region to exist, and exist free from violence directed against their populations, be recognized by all parties to the conflict. It is in fact the question of whether Israel is a legitimate state or not that is the chief driving engine of the continuation of the whole bitter business. So long as it is seriously maintained, not just among Arab Palestinians, but by broad sections of the Arab people, and Islamic peoples throughout the world, that the state of Israel is not a legitimate state entity, both the people of Israel, and any government they might conceivably elect, will consider themselves under serious threat to their existance, and react accordingly.

To answer your question, Ma'am, regarding boundaries, the Armistice Line of '49, as it emerged after various MAC negotiations, would suit me, but as a matter of practical fact, no Israeli government is ever going to cede a portion of Jerusalem, particularly not a portion containing the totemic Wall, unless driven out of it by superior military power, and that military power would have to cash in a good deal of blood to seal the deal.

[Vegasaurus]

19. That's what I have been saying

Israelis are not suicidal.

They are not giving what the Palestninans demand, in terms of AL:L of the WB and E Jerusalem , at least not without a huge conflagration that really will be the bloodbath that has been prophesied.

[azurnoir]

20. What The Magistrate said had nothing to do

with suicide, however I find your "prophecy" statement quite revealing.

[Vegasaurus]

22. I said nothing about biblical prophesy

only about prophesy in terms of foretelling, which even people on this board have done.

It is quite easy to predict what would happen were the Israelis not protected to the eyeballs by heavy artillery and firepower.

Israelis aren't safe even delivering aid and food to the Palestinians.

Who thinks they could live together?

Not a chance in hell. Won't happen without a major war and much bloodshed.

[The Magistrate]

21. There Can Be No Question, Ma'am, Of Israel Ceding 'The West Bank': It Is Not Israel's

The question is under what circumstances will the military occupation of territories over-run by Israel in '67 cease, and what will be the disposition of the settlements Israel has established in those portions of that territory in the Jordan valley.

[Vegasaurus]

16. This bears repeating

It is one of the enduring mysteries of this situation that the political leadership of Arab Palestine has declined, and continues to decline, to declare itself a sovereign state: this is, after all, one of the first things movements of national liberation typically do. It is hard by now to avoid the conclusion that the reason they have not done this is because they will not accept the present boundaries such a state would necessarily have, and imagine 'recovery' of territory now part of Israel to be a serious possibility in the future.

[Vegasaurus]

5. Also

If you do not begin to act with all of your wisdom in moving toward statehood, you run the risk of becoming the Kurds of the Mediterranean basin, the Native Americans of the Middle East, permanently stateless, eternally denied.

If you do not begin to rethink the course which the Palestinian national movement has taken, you must begin to consider the idea of a world without a Palestine. The world is beginning to feel more and more comfortable with that possibility, and it is time for you to think hard about the reasons why.

We in the post-modern West have spent years educating ourselves to believe that all cultures are equally valid - with the possible exception, of course, of our own. We have taken it on faith that to criticize the culture of an indigenous people is obscenely imperialist, paternalist.

In short, we gave you a pass. And we encouraged you to give yourselves one. In respecting you for your steadfastness, we refrained from calling you on your passivity. In accepting and amplifying your contentions as to Israel's acts of wrongdoing, we chose not to hold you accountable for your own, or to explain them away as a function of occupation,

You learned, over time, to hold Israel responsible for the whole of your plight. You learned, over time, to ignore, explain away, blame entirely on Israel, or otherwise deny the ways in which your actions and, in particular, your passivity, have deepened and fostered your misery. You learned to excuse your leaders their corruption, and their policy of foiling Israeli and foreign attempts to improve your conditions. You learned to excuse your Arab brothers their duplicity and their lip service and their exploitation and their cold shoulder and their contempt and their consummate failure to come to your aid.