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Obama to Livni: Israel has every right to defend itself

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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 11:28 PM
Original message
Obama to Livni: Israel has every right to defend itself
Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni stressed the importance of a firm international front against Iran and the necessity of military operations to defend Israel from terrorism, in a conversation with Democratic presidential hopeful Sen. Barack Obama on Tuesday.

"The ability to succeed with our strategy depends on the determined and unwavering stance of the international community against terror and against Iran," she told him, as communicated through the Israeli Embassy.

She said that similar efforts to nurture moderates and condemn extremists called for international resolve against Hamas and its actions.

Obama, according to his campaign, spoke of a shared US-Israeli interest in ensuring that Iran doesn't develop nuclear weapons and ends its support of terrorism.

He defended Israel's right to self-defense and expressed "admiration and support" for its commitment to negotiations with the Palestinians.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=120526130753...
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. And they do have that right
A pre-emeptive strike against Iran does NOT qualify

But when attacked, every nation has that right to defend itself
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Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Can I hold you to that comment
or are you among those who thinks Israel has no right to defend itself against daily rockets?
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. No-one here has said Israel has no right to defend itself n/t
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. I do think Israel has that right
I have posted that here many times.

I have also posted the following:

1. If there was a totally unguarded pro-Israeli rally in Jerusalem and a totally unguarded pro-Palestinian rally, we all know which one had the 100% chance of getting attacked - the Pro-Israeli one.

2. Everytime Israel cedes land it is never enough

3. When Israel is attacked many in Israel still call for calm. You almost never hear that from the Palestinian side.
It's always about martyrs and revenge.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. 'Everytime Israel cedes land it is never enough'
Yeah. How dare those ungrateful Palestinians want their own state in the West Bank! ;)
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breakaleg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. cedes land that isn't theirs to their rightful owners you mean? It's awful when people want what's
their's isn't it?
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Looking4Light Donating Member (98 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. What's theirs?
For the record:
The land was part of the Ottoman Empire for hundreds of years.
It was captured by the British in WWI, and given official British mandatory status by the League Of Nations.
In 1947, the UN offered the land to the Palestinian people in the Palestine Partition Plan.
The Palestinians and Arab countries rejected the Partition Plan. Israel did not.
That is why the remaining portions of the British mandatory lands are more legally considered disputed territories.
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Shaktimaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Huh?
There are no rightful owners for most of the land in question. And of course there is plenty of land in the OPT that was legally purchased by Jews decades ago before they were evicted.

It is not quite as cut and dry as you seem to wish it was.

Or do you believe that the land in question should belong only to members of a specific ethnic group? All of the land is Palestinian, regardless of whether or not a Jew holds the deed, by the simple facts of ethnicity?
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Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Yes, that seems to be the prevailing view
All of the land belongs to the Palestinians, even land settled by Jews more than 100 years ago,


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pegleg Donating Member (788 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Not according to the UN, not historically, and
not according to the map. But according to you.
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Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Dang, forgot my little sarcasm thing
I thought my post was obvious.
:eyes:
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breakaleg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. The land in question has been set aside for a Palestinian state.
I know Israel and its supporters like to cling to technicalities and their various interpretations to ignore that fact. But the land outside the green line is more Palestinians' than it is Israel's.

So when Israel concedes land outside the green line, as if it's some great gift, we ought to remember that it wasn't Israel's in the first place.
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Shaktimaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. when?
I think I see the root of our chronic misunderstandings. You say the land outside of the green line has been set aside for a Palestinian state. OK, I've been studying this conflict for a few years now, and I don't remember that ever having happened. Where are you getting that from and who exactly set it aside?

Now, while I agree that the land is not Israel's, nor was it ever, we could say the same for Palestine. The land outside of the green line never belonged to Palestine to begin with either. At least according to my understanding... you say it was set aside for them. So by all means, enlighten me. Explain when and how the land outside of the green line was given to Palestine.
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breakaleg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. If you are talking about purchased land, remember that has nothing to do with statehood.
Jews can purchase land in Tibet, that won't make it a part of the state of Israel. Why do you cling to this silly notion anyway?
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Shaktimaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Who said it belonged to Israel?
You merely said that the land's rightful owners are the Palestinains. I don't know why you believe that the Palestinians as a group are somehow the sole rightful owners of all of the land in question. Perhaps you'll answer it when you respond to my above post when you explain exactly how and when and by whom the lands outside of the green line were ceded to the Palestinians for a future state.
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
11. Mr. Obama has been very supportive of every aspect of Olmert's
policies. I have little reason to doubt he will be anything but faithful to these policies when he becomes President.
No matter what Israeli policies are put in place.
Human rights is not an issue.
Making peace is not an issue.

Political expedience trumps everything.

Why is it that sometimes Obama reminds me of a dancing bear?
"I call myself a dancing bear," Obama jokes of his campaign life. "They let me out of my cage. I do my dance. They let me back in my cage. They feed me occasionally. They let me work out. And every once in awhile I break lose, before they get the tranquilizers."

oh, and speaking of dancing bears, this is what an Israeli politician thinks of the US political scene:
"It is not worthwhile dancing like a trained bear on every issue according to the tune of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) or the evangelical pastors." Yossi Sarid, former Israeli Knesset member.
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Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Tom, there is NO president who will be elected in the US
who has isolation of Israel as a policy.

I find it offensive that you call Obama a "dancing bear". What kind of Democrat are you? Honestly, why are you even posting on this site, since you clearly are so opposed to all Democratic principles and candidates?
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Obama called himself a dancing bear.
I only want a President who will question Israeli policies and not support each and every one.

Obama actually questions some of Bush's policies, why not question some of Olmert's?
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