Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

IDF operation in Gaza ends, soldiers leaving Strip

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine Donate to DU
 
oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 11:54 PM
Original message
IDF operation in Gaza ends, soldiers leaving Strip
Infantry and armor forces began pulling out of the northern Gaza Strip on Sunday night, after operating in the area since the weekend, bringing the first stage of Operation Warm Winter to an end.

The Israel Air Force continued to strike in the Strip overnight, however, with Palestinian sources reporting of two gunmen killed.

"The soldiers faced the missions they were tasked with courageously," a military source told Ynet shortly after the forces left the Palestinian territory.

"Patience is needed in order to reach significant achievements, and we have it. Unfortunately, we also paid a price, but we must know that when handling such battles there is a chance we will also have to pay in the future. Our mission is to defend the citizens, and that's what we're doing," the source added.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3514012,00.ht...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
pegleg Donating Member (788 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
1. they'll be back when the rockets start flying again
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
2. Courageously?
How much courage does it take to shoot down anything that moves?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pegleg Donating Member (788 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. As much courage as it takes to lob rockets into populated areas
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. ACtually, it takes more courage
and more restraint, which is what the IDF shows.

You think they are shooting anything that moves? You have no idea what you are talking about. Israel could flatten Gaza, completely. It could have ten, twenty, fifty years ago. Instead , the Palestinian population continues to grow exponentially.

It takes courage and restraint to try to get only the terrorists, who hide amidst civilians and use human shields.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Waya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Restraint? The IDF?
If they are showing restraint than I'd hate to see what happens if they let loose....... Saying the IDF is showing restraint is like saying Bush has morals..........sheeeesh....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pegleg Donating Member (788 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. The IDF has shown remarkable restraint in not declaring total war on Hamas
The Israelis have been attacked on a regular basis ever since they returned the Gaza to the Palestinians.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Going by that logic
Edited on Mon Mar-03-08 12:45 PM by subsuelo
The U.S. has shown remarkable 'restraint' in Iraq by not dropping a nuclear bomb there

Edited to add: It's incomprehensible to me how 110 dead people -- mostly civilians -- constitutes 'restraint'
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BostonianEinstein Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Israel is more restrained than the US in Iraq...
1. Israel is more restrained than the USA is in Iraq. This, given the fact Israel is barraged constantly by rockets while the USA is not. The proof is in the pudding. Count the number of Iraqi civilian deaths as a percentage of their population and do the same for Palestinians. If Israel is "bad", then the USA is far worse using the same logic. Are we to assume US soldiers have no morals and are commanded to deliberately target innocents - to a greater extent than Israelis? And this - given the fact the USA mainland is under no threat like Israel's mainland?

2. What should Israel do to fight more proportionally? Send hundreds of suicide bombers into Gaza, looking for maximum impact? Maybe re-name streets, plazas, and malls after such esteemed 'martyrs'? Maybe lob several hundred bombs into Gaza looking for maximum damage? Would that appease the rest of the world looking for proportional restraint?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
33. Congratulations are in order, then
Being more restrained than the US has been in Iraq is definitely worth some sort of prize.

:sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Waya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. They may have removed their settlements from Gaza......
......but they sure haven't given up the control, have they?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BostonianEinstein Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. letting loose?
How about carpet bombing the population and/or lobbing thousands of rockets into Gaza? Now THAT would show no restraint. Many Israelis are PO'd that troops were sent into harm's way and died - when it would have been FAR easier to just bomb away. THAT is restraint.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Agreed, which is why I oppose both
Do you?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BostonianEinstein Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. so you oppose Israeli self-defense
What do you propose Israel does the next time(s) they're bombed from across the border? Nothing? Maybe ask for Hamas to "please stop"? What's your plan to stop the rockets from attacking a civilian population?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BostonianEinstein Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. if they shot down everything that moved...
...there'd be far more than 50-60 civilian casualties. Try hundreds, if not thousands. And it's FAR more courageous to send troops into harm's way than lob missiles over the border or bomb away from helicopters and jets.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. The point, of course, is
There is no courageousness in recklessly bombing away at civilians, as Israel has been doing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Doesn't seem to be working
because the terrorists only have one goal, and that is "all of greater Palestine" (ie Israel). They won't stop until that time, so Israel has no choice but to protect itself.

Sucks to see the truth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. So, since recklessly bombing away at civilians isn't working
What do you advocate that Israel should do, instead?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BostonianEinstein Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. recklessly bombing away?
Israel's not recklessly bombing away. They sent troops into harm's way who were killed to minimize civilian casualties rather than bomb away from the skies.

What do you advocate Israel does instead?

What would you advocate that the USA does in the event Mexico starts lobbing missiles into Texas and sending hundreds of suicide bombers in who kill thousands of Texans?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. 110 people dead, mostly civilians, in a matter of days
Yes that is recklessly bombing away. No excuse for it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BostonianEinstein Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. no excuse?
1. You did not answer my questions. Why?

2. Does Israel get any bonus points for sending their own troops into harm's way rather than just bombing away from a distance?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. no, Israel has no excuse for recklessly bombing civilian centers
Neither does Hamas. Nobody gets bonus points.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. So, since recklessly bombing away at civilians isn't working
What do you advocate that Gaza should do, instead?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I oppose the bombings of civilians committed by both sides
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. That doesn't answer the question.
Also, what should Israel do to stop the bombings?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Talk.
That answers both questions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. In a perfect world, it would be just that simple.
However, we are from being in a perfect world. But, I would agree, all sides, and there are more than two, should be able to sit and talk.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. I agree 100% with your comments
Edited on Mon Mar-03-08 02:48 PM by subsuelo
The next question is -- what is preventing all sides from sitting and talking?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. This is partly to blame for the prevention of talks...
Edited on Mon Mar-03-08 04:18 PM by Behind the Aegis
The 38-year-old furniture salesman says he is not afraid to die for the cause of destroying Israel and forging a Palestinian state on all Israel's territory, the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

---snip---

"We have the right to all of Palestine," he said in his three-room, one-storey house in Gaza City.

source
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Who is refusing ceasefire negotiations? nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. I haven't seen Israel is refusing except for the reason the rockets haven't stopped.
Not much of a ceasefire if only one side stops firing. Most would call it suicide, at worst, stupidity, at best.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Nonsensical falsehood. No serious observer denies Hamas' offer of negotiated ceasefire. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Fantasy by those who believe Hamas propaganda. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Try reading a newspaper. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Agreed!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #16
31. recklessly bombing?
110 dead in the most densely populated area on earth....and israel is "recklessly bombing"....the IAF must have some of the worst pilots in the world..hitting even one apt building alone would cause 100's of deaths.......
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. you forgot to mention
110 dead -- mostly civilians
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. No, **not** mostly civilians.
The numbers I have seen have indicated possibly half were civilians. Possibly half does not equal "mostly." So, are you seeing different numbers?

Israeli troops and tanks pulled out of Gaza before dawn today after five days of intense combat which left at least 106 Palestinians and three Israelis dead and brought stinging criticism from many in the international community, including the UN. New evidence from Israel's leading human rights group, B'Tselem, which has researchers on the ground, said at least half the Palestinian dead "did not take part in the hostilities". The Guardian

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Surely, the THIRD who were children are civilians? nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Still not "mostly" civilians casualties.
Furthermore, until further information is known about the actual conflicts, some of those children may have well been involved in hostilities and then are no longer counted among the civilian dead.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #32
40. You don't know "reckless bombing"
if you think 100 dead people is a bad war result.

There could be thousands and thousands dead, but Israel is trying to only target militants.

Hamas should stop hiding amidst their women and children, and fewer innocents would die.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
21. Meanwhile, the "experiment in famine" continues....
The experiment in famine began on January 18, 2008. Israel hermetically closed all of Gazas borders, preventing food, medicine and fuel from entering the Strip. Power cuts, which had been frequent for many months, were extended to 12 hours per day. Because of the electricity shortage, at least 40 percent of Gazans have not had access to running water (which is channeled through electric pumps) for days and the sewage system has broken down. The raw sewage that has not spilled onto the streets is being poured into the sea at a daily rate of 30 million liters. Hospitals have been forced to rely on emergency generators, leading them to cut back, yet again, on the already limited services offered to the Palestinian population. The World Food Programme has reported critical shortages of food and declared that it is unable to provide 10,000 of the poorest Gazans with three out of the five foodstuffs they normally receive.

After five days of extreme suffering, a group of Hamas militants took the lead and blew-up parts of the steel wall along the Egyptian border. Within hours, more than 100,000 Gazans crossed the border into Egypt. They were hungry, thirsty, and sick of being locked up in a filthy cage. Once in Egypt, they bought everything they could get their hands on and waited patiently for the international community to intervene on their behalf. Yet the world leaders failed them again, and on January 28, after a five-day respite, the iron wall was re-erected and the Palestinians were pushed back into the worlds largest prisonthe Gaza Strip.

Ehud Barak, Israels Minister of Defense, did not stammer when he justified his decision to experiment with famine; he had no qualms about introducing a policy that only the most brutal leaders have adopted historically.....

Ultimately, though, even the courageous Avnery does not spell out Israels main objective. The central issue for Israel is not Hamas yes or no, but rather Palestinian sovereignty yes or no. The recent crisis reveals, once more, that Israels August 2005 unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip was not an act of decolonization but rather the reorganization of Israeli power and the implementation of neo-colonial rule. Israel realized that in order to maintain sovereignty, all it would have to do is preserve its monopoly over the legitimate means of movement. Very different from the withdrawal of British forces from the various colonies of old, it accordingly continued to dominate Gazas borders, transforming the Strip into a container of sorts whose openings are totally controlled by Israel.

The experiment in Gaza is, in other words, not really about the bombardment of Israeli citizens or even about Israels ongoing efforts to undermine Hamas. It is simply a new draconian strategy aimed at denying the Palestinians their most basic right to self-determination. It is about showing them who is in control, about breaking their backs, so that they lower their expectations and bow down to Israeli demands. The Palestinians understood this and courageously destroyed their prison wall while crying out into the wilderness for international support. Instead of the expected outrage, the only response they received was a weak echo of their own cry for help.

http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/3517 /

I believe an Israeli leader promised a "shoah". He is delivering on that promise.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BostonianEinstein Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. nonsense.
The Gaza disengagement was in August 2005. The economic sanctions were not until January 2006. For 5 months, the pullout from Gaza - this END of the occupation - was met with only rockets. Gaza blew their chance at peace. They got exactly what they wanted with an end of the occupation. They returned this gesture of peace with nothing but violence in the form of a rocket barrage into Israel.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. google earth.....
Edited on Mon Mar-03-08 02:40 PM by pelsar
interesting geography shown on gazas southern border....you remember that one...the one that "israel controlled"...except that hamas opened it up an egypt closed it...unless of course the zionists also control egypt, and the worlds banks, and the US......did i leave anybody out?

---

i realize if you mention egypt it does ruin the narration that israel is totally responsible for the blockade, but with hamas blowing open the border and egypt closing it, i'm afraid even the pretense that israel controls it is now gone...it kind of ruins your credibility
----

and this too:
I believe an Israeli leader promised a "shoah". He is delivering on that promise.

so a holocaust took place in gaza this last few days?....just a tad bit on the hyperbole...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Sep 19th 2014, 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC