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Herschel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 07:57 PM
Original message
Lieberman defends Israeli bombing in Syria
Democratic Senator Joe Lieberman is defending the Israeli bombing of a militant training camp in Syria.

The Democratic presidential candidate compares it to U-S strikes against al-Qaida bases in Afghanistan after the September eleventh attacks.

Lieberman says Israel, like the United States, is a victim of terrorism and "no government can stand" for that.

cut

http://www.wstm.com/Global/story.asp?S=1469905

Lieberman's strong support of Israel makes him more desirable and electable.
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Alex146 Donating Member (556 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. WTF?
Lieberman's strong support of Israel makes him more desirable and electable.
-----

No it doesn't.


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tinnypriv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. You mean for the Knesset?
Sure ;-)
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 08:16 PM
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 08:35 PM
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Give me a break...
Is Delay's allegiance first to Israel? he's even more of a hawk then Lieberman.
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Flying_Pig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. But for different reasons...
n/t
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Oh, I forgot...
Lieberman is Jewish, therefore he must be an Israeli double-agent! :eyes:

And what, pray tell, are those different reasons?
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Orangeone Donating Member (395 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. It okay to question his loyalties

He certainly has a bias. Doesn't he always look out for Israel's interests no matter what? It's no suprise that he supports bombing Syria. He was all for invading Iraq. He supports anything that is bad for Arabs, but is "good" for Israel.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. PNAC, not AIPAC...
Do you know what PNAC is?

And, btw, I'm Jewish, and any bias I might have once had toward sthe Israelis has long since been swept away by reason.
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Orangeone Donating Member (395 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Yup

I know what PNAC is.

Anyway, I think guys like Leiberman are bad for Israel. I think his unconditional support is an unhealthy thing for the U.S. and Israel.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I think they're bad for Israel, too...
I hate Lieberman's political beliefs, but I don't believe that they're due to the fact that he's Jewish. They're due to the fact that he's a war-mongering hawk like Tom Delay.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 08:52 PM
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 08:52 PM
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 09:45 PM
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LastDemInIdaho Donating Member (483 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
14. Kudos to Liberman
He understands who the terrorists are and how to deal with them. Thank goodness someone in charge is brave enough to make a stand.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Brave enough to take a stand...
for violence, destruction, and killing, and against peace.

Yep, very brave of him.
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
18. Comment
Skinner commented on this not too long ago. Lieberman is counted as a Progressive and to slam him as a Conservative or a RINO is inaccurate and inappropriate for DU.

It is okay to criticize his support for the Syrian bombing as being non-productive, or war-mongering. However, general attacks as mentioned above are not allowed for him or any other established Democratic candidate or leader.

Lithos
FA/NS Moderator
Democratic Underground.
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bluesoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Lieberman a progressive? Oh please...
Progressive?!? Excuse me but he is anything but progressive. He is very much to the right, as few people in the Democrat party are.
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. It is forbidden to say that. You gotta call him a progressive war mongerer
:shrug:
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legin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. LOL
:evilgrin:
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LevChernyi Donating Member (158 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. You are kidding me..
You have some sort of referee here who decides who is and isn't a "progressive" and this being dubs Joe Lieberman of the Insurance and Aerospace Lieberman's, a cog in the Falwell, Robertson, "morality"
machine a "progressive" and that is the final word on that?
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. you guys do know what that term means, right?
I'm assuming no..
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Skinner said he was a Democrat
He didn't say he was a progressive. Lieberman wouldn't claim to be a progressive either.
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bluesoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. DINO
Lieberman is so much to the right and in line with the Bush administration that it hurts my heart seeing a D next to his name. I rest my case..
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. no, he's a Democrat
Edited on Wed Oct-08-03 02:49 PM by Aidoneus
Democratic politicians can comfortably be, indeed often are, socially "liberal" in many ways (and he is) and still very much be a political reactionary--as he also most certainly is. To see him cast as "Progressive" (in the same camp as say, Eugene Debs) is shallow and historically ignorant.. and a fair bit stomach churning on the side.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #26
49. Love him. He's a liberal!
I've noticed that there's more than a few Democrats who are socially 'liberal' while being anything but liberal on matters like foreign policy. Maybe it's because they're self-centred and only care about domestic social issues that might have a direct impact on them, and everything outside their own little personal circle just doesn't exist....

From what I've read about Lieberman and quite a few other Democratic candidates, there's nothing the slightest bit progressive about them, and these pain-stakingly cut'n'pasted lyrics are for them and all who support them...


i cried when they shot john lennon tears ran down my spine and i cried when i saw "jfk" as though i'd lost a father of mine but malcolm x and ice-t had it coming they got what they asked for this time chorus so love me, love me, love me i'm a liberal i go to pro-choice rallies recycle my cans and jars i'll honk if you love the dead hope those funny grunge bands become stars but don't talk about revolution that's going a little bit too far chorus i cheered when clinton was chosen my faith in the system reborn i'll do anything to save our schools if my taxes ain't too much more and i love blacks and gays and latinos as long as they don't move next door chorus rush limbaugh and the l.a.p.d. should all hang their heads in shame i can't understand where they're at arsenio should set them straight but if neigborhood watch doesn't know you i hope the cops take your name chorus yeh, i read the new republic(an) rolling stone and mother jones too if i vote it's a democrat with a sensible economy view but when it comes to terrorist arabs there's no one more red, white and blue chorus once i was young and had an attitude stickers covered the car i drove in even went on some direct actions when there weren't rent-a-cops to be seen ah, but now i've grown older and wiser and that's why i'm turning you in

http://www.punkbands.com/lyrics/bands/jello/praire.htm


Violet....



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Equinox Donating Member (786 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. I have a question....
Is Lieberman afforded this kind of "progressive" protection because he's Jewish? This is a sincere question and is not meant to be offensive. The reason I pose this question is because if the answer is yes, that would be, imo, racist.

Maybe, I understood your post incorrectly and am just asking for clarification. Does this mean that any Democrat who doesn't follow the Democratic party "letter of law" is still afforded protection from harsh criticism? I hope my post makes sense.

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Noon_Blue_Apples Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. but,

I believe it was stated that this protection is afforded at this time because he is seeking the Dem nomination for president.

I guess if Dick Army or JC Watts was also seaking the nomination they would be afforded the same and considered "progressive", in the Kafkaesque Zell Miller sence of progression.

Bill
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Equinox Donating Member (786 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Well...I don't know what to think about that...
Edited on Wed Oct-08-03 03:20 PM by Equinox
any one can claim to be a Democrat. Look at Dick Gephard! I don't think he is...but who cares?
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Noon_Blue_Apples Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. right or wrong this is a partisan democratic party site

it is what it is

Yes, if Lieberman wins the nomination there will be no dissent allowed.

He would be the only choice expressed on this site.

Bill
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Equinox Donating Member (786 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Which isn't democratic....
....but I'm only a poster. I'm not a moderator or administrator and I if I wish to post, I must follow their rules or not post at all.

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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #27
50. To answer
No, he is not given special status for his religious affiliation.

He is afforded the status from his long standing record of supporting progressive civil rights. Remember too that an I/P position is not the end/all be/all of determining someone's status as a progressive.

Lithos
FA/NS Moderator
Democratic Underground
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Didn't he call affirmitave action racist?
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Equinox Donating Member (786 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. That is true. Thanks Lithos.
I just needed clarification.
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Herschel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #18
32. Thank you
A fine Democrat such as Lieberman should not be attacked for holding practical views as opposed to leftist ones. I appreciate management's position on this. Sadly, there is often an anti-semitic tone to the critcism of him.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. "Practical" as opposed to "Leftist?"
Edited on Wed Oct-08-03 06:35 PM by Darranar
Uh... which Leftist views do you consider to be impractical?

On edit: You are correct about an anti-semitic tone sometimes being taken in criticism of him. I hate Lieberman, but I doubt he's a double agent for Isarel or seomthing ridiculous like that.
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Herschel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. Restricting Israel's right to defend herself
is leftist. Respecting this right is both practical and a value of the Democratic party.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Why shouldn't every nation's right to defend itself be restricted?
Especially when defending oneself involves occupying another area, building settlements atop it, and building walls through the lands of the inhabitants.

Or when it involves heavily bombing sovereign countries.

Especially when true national security interests are not served in either situation.
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Herschel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Sovereign countries
will find themselves bombed if they harbor terrorists. Conditions in disputed territories will deteriorate if killers are sent. Israel's interests are served.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. If you didn't get it, I was talking about Iraq...
Edited on Wed Oct-08-03 07:09 PM by Darranar
not Syria. Tossing a few rockets into an abandoned camp isn't heavy bombing.

What disputed territories?
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thebigidea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-10-03 04:03 AM
Response to Reply #36
53. but isn't this a site for uh, "leftists"?
not that I agree with your premise that restricting Israel's right to bomb Syria is "leftist" - but, uh... are you saying that leftist = bad? Are you saying that your position here is not only right, but... rightist?

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rini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Joe is not alone
in his remarks, I must have missed the volley of outrage and distrust of Irish, German, and African American politicians who agree with him. Surely that was an overlooked post I missed because other wise we are not disagreeing on policy but on religion and you know what that means...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #32
39. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Actually, I think he's right...
I am a Jewish, dovish, pro-Palestinian Leftist who proudly supports Kucinich, but some of the stuff said about Lieberman is a bit over the top. I don't care if he's called a DLC puppet, a coward, a war monger, or a right-wing nut - all of those are in fact accurate - but when people accuse him of dual loyalty, my anti-semitic alert button starts blinking. I don't think that those who say such things are anti-semitic; I just think that they're repeating anti-semitic rhetoric and propaganda from right-wing fools like Buchanan.
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Noon_Blue_Apples Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Not my point
Edited on Wed Oct-08-03 07:43 PM by Noon_Blue_Apples
It was the opportunity he was taking to bring race BACK into the conversation. (deleted posts - I didn't read them - they are gone - what has been said in this thread to pull this rabbit out?)

I ask you, if you're being dogged why drag beef?

That gets my 'neocon' radar blinking...there is a portion of humanity that will use anything if it benefits them personally in the end.

Bill
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. I basically agree...
but I don't think that it's fair to completely negate the anti-semitism involved. Bringing it up did seem to be a pre-emptive dodge, though, by immediately discrediting any criticism, but the point itslef was sound, if not its context.

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Noon_Blue_Apples Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. close

You are making a judgement based upon (I believe) "anti-semitism boogyman".

My use was not to express that anti-semitism does not exist.

Rather an objection to the 'tool'it was being used as.

As the boogyman is to parents even though there are real dangers to children out there. Parents are not really afraid the child may be eaten by a monster if the kid gets out of bed. But if the kid goes for it and makes the parents night all that much easier...hey!

It can be a useful tool in the hands of your enemy. Thats the point. Of course Jews are not all the same, under one agenda. There are some wolves in sheep clothing out there. They have no duel loyalty, only a loyalty to themselves and the tools available to reach their ends.

To think otherwise would be foolish.

Bill
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. Okay...
I understand you now. Thanks for clarifying.
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Herschel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. How dare you
Anti-semitism shadows Joe Lieberman and all Jews. He is a Democrat, not a wild leftist.
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Noon_Blue_Apples Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. How dare I? You brought the topic up but are somehow immune

from criticism for your choice of tactics.

Why?

Oh, only you're allowed to question the motives of others?

rich

B
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #18
34. Progressive?
Lieberman is no progressive. Democrat he is, but progressive?
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #18
46. I think that's quite a stretch Lithos
That rule, to my understanding only applies to after the Primaries. If I'm mistaken, I would like to be pointed to the reference.

Thanks
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