Hundreds of Jewish graves vandalized in Ukraine

[Doondoo]

Hundreds of Jewish graves were defiled in the Ukrainian Black Sea port city of Odessa, Interfax news agency reported Tuesday.

An unknown person or persons using spray paint and blunt objects damaged 302 final resting sites in the city's Jewish cemetery, said Dmitry Fuchedzhi, an Odessa police spokesman.

Two red swastikas were drawn on a memorial to Jews killed during German occupation of the region during 1941-44, along with the words "Congratulations on the Holocaust."

Anti-Semitism in Ukraine is uncommon but not unknown, most frequently in the form of vandalism on Jewish religious buildings, or less often as physical attacks against Jews. Until the early 1990s, Odessa was home to the Soviet Union's largest Jewish community. It remains by far the most Jewish city in Ukraine, and the only major Ukrainian metropolis with a Jewish mayor. Anti-Semetism in Odessa is practically unhead of.

"We will find out who did this," Fuchedzhi said. "This is a city with 130 different nationalities and nobody bothers anyone, and now this."



http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/828312.html

[YOY]

1. The Skins have been growing in Eastern Europe

Post-communism and pro-nationalistic parties have brought their resurgence.

Ironically these fine examples of the "master race" are always stupid little turds and the dumbest of the genetic pool.

[cali]

2. Deplorable story, but what does it have to do with I/P?

Let me answer that: Absolutely nothing.

[msmcghee]

3. Doesn't the international increase in anti-semitism . .

.. point to Israel's sense of the need to provide a refuge for Jews from around the world - and if so wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that that has some effects on . .

a) the voters choice of more right wing candidates and

b) the policies of that elected GOI and

c) the nature of its defense against terrorism from surrounding areas?

There are often several threads started every day here that point to instances of Israelis doing bad things to or saying bad things about Palestinians, Arab militants, etc. No-one seems to mind those posts.

[cali]

4. No. It doesn't necessarily point to the need for Israel

to provide refuge. it points to the need for governments such as Ukraine's to prosecute anti-semitic thugs who take actions such as the ones who defaced the graves. It points to the need for greater education, but it's really a stretch to say that this belongs in I/P.

[furman]

6. On the contrary, it accentuates the need for Israel

The Zionism movement in the late 19th century emerged as a conclusion that antisemitism could not be eradicated and that assimilation by Jews into local cultures would not stop their persecution. They were correct of course. The ultimate proof was the antisemitic policies of the Nazi regime ending with the Holocaust.

Once the atrocities of the Holocaust became known, work accelerated to help solve the conflict between the Arabs and Jews of Palestine. The result was the UN partition resolution of 1947 leading to the creation of the state of Israel in 1948.

The Jewish character of the state of Israel with its Law of Return is meant to serve a safe haven and provide security for the Jewish people.

The charters and rhetoric of terrorist groups Hamas, Hezbollah, the PLO, and Iran call for Israel's annihilation as a Jewish state.
Antisemitic, anti-Zionist, and anti-Israel propaganda from all points on the political spectrum serve to delegitimize Israel in the eyes of the world.
Antisemitic hate crimes and rhetoric are now at a level not seen since the Holocaust.
Ending the propaganda campaign is part of the essence of recognizing Israel's "right to exist" and is essential in countering antisemitism.

That is why reports of antisemitic incidents are relevant to discussion on this forum.

[breakaleg]

7. Aren't there millions of Jews living throughout the world quite well? That alone is

proof enough that what you are saying is false.

[Shaktimaan]

9. not anymore.

40% live in America. 40% live in Israel. Next on the list is France with 3% or so. Every other country has nearly none, just remnants of once well-populated Jewish quarters housing mostly elderly folks who didn't/couldn't leave and were not expelled or killed. It is also worth noting that the majority of French Jews are not the original Ashkenaz Jews that lived there earlier. They are Sephardic refugees from former French colonies who were able to emigrate to France following their expulsion from Arab lands in the middle of this past century.

These two maps will give you an idea of the migration of the world's Jewish population over the past century. It tells a pretty obvious story.

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/jews-20c.htm

This wiki article also has some basic information about the mass movement of Jews from North Africa and Asia to Israel, America and France if you are interested. It estimates that roughly 50% of Israelis are descended from Jewish refugees of Muslim states.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_lands

It is also worth noting the results of the Bermuda and Evian conferences, both of which were held in order for the international powers to discuss ways to remedy the Jewish refugee problems, one in 1938, the other in 1943. In neither case, even though the facts of the holocaust were well known by the time the Evian conference was held, were any countries willing to accept any helpful number of Jewish refugees.

[breakaleg]

10. So then 40% are living outside Israel? Aren't many of those in North America and Europe doing well?

Do they need refuge in Israel?

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[breakaleg]

16. This is not 1939. Israel is not the only place Jews can live well.

Again, as is proven by the millions of Jews living outside Israel.

[furman]

17. Antisemitic incidents soar worldwide

http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/AntiSemi/10498.htm
Report: Anti-Semitic incidents soar worldwide
By Ynetnews January 29, 2007

A worrying rise in anti-Semitism has been recorded around the world, according to the Jewish Agency's Global Forum Against Anti-Semitism.

The figures were released during a press conference held in Jerusalem on Sunday afternoon.

According to the figures, there was a 66 percent rise in anti-Semitic incidents in Austria, while Germany saw a 60 percent rise. In France, there was a 20 percent increase in anti-Semitic incidents, with the same level of increased incidents reported in Russia. In the UK, reports of anti-Semitic attacks dropped by three percent.

Amos Hermon, of the Forum, reported the rise, which included two anti-Semitic murders. One victim, Ilan Halimi, a French Jew murdered in January of 2006, will be buried in Israel next month. The other, Pamela Wechter, was shot dead by a Muslim gunman in the Jewish Federation Building in Seattle in July.

Images of a bullet-ridden Oslo synagogue, and worshippers at a Moscow synagogue coming under attack were included in a booklet about the current state of anti-Semitism in the world.

Equating Israel with Nazism
"There have been hundreds of violent incidents," Hermon said, drawing particular attention to the plight of European Jews. He emphasized Europe's 20 million-strong Muslim community, adding that being in Jewish in France meant "encountering anti-Semitism frequently."

The French government was, however, doing its best to counter anti-Semitism, Hermon added.

Europe was also scene to "pure white Christian anti-Semitism," Hermon said, citing an article last August by Norwegian author Jostein Gaarder, who wrote in the Aftenposten newspaper: "The State of Israel in its present form is history. We no longer recognize the State of Israel...Do not worry, Israel will go to exile again."

Almost all forms of anti-Semitism, from the anti-Israel boycott attempts by the radical Left, to the propaganda of Islamic extremists, shared the attempt to equate the State of Israel with Nazi Germany, Hermon pointed out.

He displayed a Swedish cartoon in which Prime Minister Ehud Olmert is portrayed as a Nazi concentration camp guard.

By equating Israel with Nazism, anti-Semites hoped to spread the "message that the Jewish nation has no right to exist, because the Nazis, according to international consensus, have no right to exist," Hermon explained, adding that this was the charge in Iran's state anti-Semitism.

...

http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/AntiSemi/10498.htm

[breakaleg]

18. I don't doubt that there is anti-semitism. Just like there is racism and hate crimes

and all sorts of injustice. I think the "need" for Israel today just doesn't exist the way it did 60 years ago and I don't think we'll ever see that situation reoccur.

[furman]

26. Jewish nationhood is one of the basic components of Judaism

The Zionism movement was founded in the late 19th century, decades before the Holocaust.

If the Holocaust had not occurred, the modern state of Israel may very well have been created at some point anyway,
and it could be even stronger because it would have had support from many of the millions of European Jews who would not have died in the Holocaust.
The sense of national unity within the Zionist movement was very strong.

And what makes you so sure that there will not be another major uprising of Jew-hatred again sometime?
Antisemitism is at an all-time high since the 1940's.
It is particularly virulent with the more recent anti-Zionism from the radical left, which seeks to demonize and delegitimize the state of Israel in the eyes of the world.
Israel is at risk of destruction today by radical genocidal groups such as Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah, and Iran's president Ahmadinejad.
Genocide is occurring in many places in the world even today.

[Shaktimaan]

19. No, 60% live outside Israel. 100-40=60.

But read my post again, really. The point of it was that there has been a steady migration of Jews from all points on the globe to 2 places. America and Israel, because those were the only really safe, free places for Jews to go. While America, undoubtedly, has been a real saviour for the Jewish people, there were plenty of times that Jews were refused entry to America in times of desperate need.

The fact that Jews live safely in America in no way means that Israel's role is now impotent. Just because it may not be necessary for American Jews to emigrate to Israel it doesn't mean that Jews elsewhere in the world are not at risk. Nor does it mean that America would welcome them, in the past they have not. But I could point to many instances in the past few decades where Israel's right of return was absolutely necessary.

I am uncertain what you are trying to say at any rate. That since some Jews are doing well in America there is no longer a need to worry about any others who may be victims of violence? The fact that there is only really one place left outside of Israel where a significant number of Jews live (as compared to a few decades ago) doesn't exactly indicate to me that no problems exist.

Again, if there is a need to take in Jewish refugees and America steps up, that would be great. But they are not required to and have chosen not to in the past. Israel expends resources other states do not in this area.

[breakaleg]

21. What I'm saying is,

in the current climate, there's plenty of racism and hatred throughout the world against all different kinds of people. Unless we are going to create a state for all of them, unless we are going to create states based on ethnicity, religion and any other dividing line, then I don't see why Israel is so special.

Now I'm not denying it was a very different climate during and after the war that led to it's creation. I just think the whole antisemitism thing gets more play than other forms of hate. Almost as an excuse for Israel's abhorrent actions today.

[Shaktimaan]

28. An understandable view.

But the modern world of nation-states illustrates the current preference for exactly the national system that you criticize Israel for having, states based on ethnicity, religion or any other dividing line. The philosophy of self-determination allows members of self-proclaimed groups the right to administration over their homelands and independant jurisdiction over their affairs. Most nations exist today as a variation of nation-state based on some kind of cultural or ethnic similarity and when the colonial powers redrew the maps of newly independent former colonies they were largely drawn based on this principle. Israel isn't special in this regard, it is like most other nations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation-state

The British Raj became India and Pakistan based on religious divisions. Later Pakistan became Pakistan and Bangladesh based on ethnic/cultural divisions. No one seems to have an issue with this actuality. Few minorities underwent a diaspora akin to what happened to the Jews so creating a state usually entailed declaring sovergniety over the homeland that they currently (and usually always have) occupied. Some cases were more similar to Israel's though, like Liberia. Now, if Liberia adopted a policy allowing descendents of African American slaves to automatically qualify for citizenship I'm not sure they would encounter the same anger Israel does for a similar policy. (Liberia actually has a real racist naturalization law permitting only people of color citizenship, which is ridiculous and not an accurate parallel of Israel's policy, being truly discriminatory. Yet we seldom hear much about it.)

I just think the whole antisemitism thing gets more play than other forms of hate. Almost as an excuse for Israel's abhorrent actions today.

Well, I don't really agree. But I think a reason anti-semitism gets a lot of attention is because you seldom see world leaders proclaim an allegience to other forms of racism as vocally or as often as they do to anti-semitism. Also, being directly connected to Israel as it is anti-semitism in the world has a direct influence on policies in the middle east of a magnitude that other examples don't. We also hear more about the Israel/Palestine conflict than other, bloodier, larger, you-name-it conflicts like Darfur all the time. But when discrimination or hate/racism affects larger geo-political concerns we hear plenty about it. Zimbabwe for example. Or South Africa.

Israel's existence is based on finding a solution to worldwide anti-semitism. The current conflict, and both Israeli and Palestinian actions are far less tied to anti-semitism/racism than they are with competing interests. And I'm not just talking about the main players but also Iran, Syria, Egypt and the other surrounding states. I mean, Iran isn't a super anti-semitic place like Yemen is. I think the a.s. rhetoric is used as a way to deflect real debate and gain support from other nations. It's a ploy. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be taken seriously. Just that people use this conflict and the emotions tied to it to advance their own interests all the time.

[Scurrilous]

22. From the archives:

A Wave of Jews Returning to Russia

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=76285#76351

Two in three FSU Jews choose Germany over Israel

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=81643#81678

[breakaleg]

23. Thanks for that. n/t

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[furman]

15. Israel is just one aspect of Jewishness to hate

It (Israel) is however the focal point, almost exclusively, of anti-jewish violence and criticism.

No, Israel is not exclusively the focal point of antisemitism.
Anti-Zionist antisemitism gets much attention today, especially from the left-wing.
But traditional antisemitic hate and media incitement are still rampant.

In fact, just last week there was a booklet published by a Polish right-wing member of the European Parliament echoing classic antisemitic themes.
Below is the article:

Jews are a detriment to Europe,
Polish politician says in new book
By Dinah A. Spritzer
February 15, 2007

PRAGUE (JTA) — A Polish member of the European Parliament has published a booklet suggesting that Jews are unethical, are obsessed with separateness and are a “tragic community” because they don’t accept Jesus as the messiah.

The extreme right-wing parliamentarian Maciej Giertych, an influential member of the nationalistic, Catholic-based League of Polish Families, released “Civilization at War in Europe” on Feb. 14 at the European Parliament headquarters in Strasbourg.

The 32-page booklet by the elder Giertych aims to prove that European culture, education and morality should be the province of only one civilization. Poland and other parts of Europe are depicted as having a Catholic core which cannot coexist with what he depicts as the Jews’ Torah-based civilization.

After reading the booklet on Giertych’s Web site, www.giertych.pl, the executive director of the European Jewish Congress said his organization will investigate the legality of the publication.

“It is quite amazing that a member of the European Parliament referred to racial theories of the pre-World War II era reflecting empty prejudices and the ugliest anti-Semitic cliches,” Serge Cwajgenbaum said. He also called upon the younger Giertych to renounce his father’s work.

Maciej Giertych, a professor of biology at the Polish Academy of Sciences, writes of Jews, “It is a civilization of programmed separateness, of programmed differentiation from the surrounding communities...By their own will, they prefer to live a separate life, in apartheid from the surrounding communities. They form their own communes (kahals), they govern themselves by their own rule and they take care to maintain also a spatial separateness. They form the ghettos themselves, as districts in which they live together, comparable to the Chinatowns in the USA.”

...

more at
http://www.jta.org/page_view_story.asp?intarticleid=17592&intcategoryid=2

on edit:
The JTA website is down at the moment.
Here is link with the same story:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1170359892598&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[Shaktimaan]

20. you think?

The idiots in the Ukraine probably never even met a Jew.

Their mayor is Jewish.

It is however the focal point, almost exclusively, of anti-jewish violence and criticism.

Sadly no. There is plenty of anti-semitism wherever Jews live and even in plenty of areas they no longer live. Look at what's been going on in France.

[cali]

24. I'm sure you also think that the actions

those that carried out the attacks in NY, London, Madrid, Bali, and numerous other places in the last few years reflect badly on say, Saudi Arabia and Muslims, right?

How, by the way, do the demographics of world's Jews back up your thesis that Israel is the greatest threat to the safety of the world's Jews? And let me suggest that if the excuse for Jew hating wasn't Israel it would almost certainly be something else. Control of the banks and media sound familiar? If you think that's only happening because of Israel, your knowledge of the history of anti-semitism is shallow.

Making blanket assertions- that Israel is almost exclusively the focal point of hateful acts and words towards Jews, with NO, not a speck of evidence to back it up, is absurd. Opinion is not fact. Anti-semitism is far, far older and alas, far deeper than Israel. And there's a couple of thousand years of evidence for that.

As to you point that the idiots in Ukraine probably never met a Jew, so what? Total red herring.

Your post was sadly vapid and lacking in any thought.

[breakaleg]

5. You seem to be conflating Jews with Israelis. Isn't that a no-no in this forum?

[msmcghee]

12. Maybe you should alert on me. That's . .

. . what the rules say you should do.

[breakaleg]

13. I don't do that. Can you say the same?

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[breakaleg]

27. Not really.

It's ok for for pro-Israelis to refer to Jews and Israel indiscriminately - that's how they justify Israel's actions. In this thread, she made that connection. Every time something bad happens to Israel it's because everyone hates Jews. And quite frankly there needs to be a distinction made between being justifiably critical of Israel and hating Jews. They are not the same thing.

[The_Casual_Observer]

11. Those are some pretty brave terrorists, I'll tell you!

What a fucking lousy coward(s).

The Ukrainian peasants really took the brunt in Lanzman's Shoah. The Nazis claimed that they were employed to do all the dirty work at the camps.