Peres at 80: peace can be grasped

[bemildred]

More from Mr. Peres. Some interesting bits.

There is an agreement on the future, but we do not know what to
do with the past, the settlers,' Peres said. He believes the Arab
world has little interest in the Palestinian question and that the
Palestinians realise the time for wars of reconquest has passed

The Nobel peace prize winner is highly critical of Sharon's policy
of no negotiations. 'The present policy is wrong. If they want to
hang everything on the end of terror, they give the terrorists the
veto on peace.

'The government should fight terror, but at the same time it should
take the initiative of peace.'

In his opinion, the emphasis on the cessation of violence hides a
lack of political initiative that is highly dangerous given the growth
of the Palestinian population, which could endanger the future of
the Jewish state more than the intifada.

Guardian.UK

[Darranar]

1. So Peres actually seems to think Sharon is SINCERE?

Come on, even my pro-Israel friends can see through that junk...

[bemildred]

2. Politicians are ALL professional liars.

He says what fits his purpose. The interesting question is
what his purpose is?

[Darranar]

3. Peres's?

I think he's trying to move Labor to the Left. This would attract some of the alienated Israeli leftists back to the party, and perhaps allow them to make some progress against Likud.

I mean, first he says Arafat deserved the Nobel Peace Prize, then he brings this message of hope, and he refuses to join the Likud coalition... I think he is continuing a process that's been going on ever since Labor left the Likud government before last election.

[MariMayans]

4. becaue obviously Likud has failed

This means absolutely nothing. Check Peres previous statements on the Oslo negotiations. He crowed about "screwing the Palestinians". I caught him on crossfire (of all places) being hammered down on serious questions among them being true independence and he said "We don't want to build another enemy".

If you want to see a more serious attempt at ethnic cleansing bring Peres to power. He can do it and say all the right things to make the American audience feel like it is witnessing a peace process vs. the more forethright Likud/NRP/Shas coalition do it's dirty work unveneered by a cover of Labour bullshit and able to work faster.

[Darranar]

5. It's all politics, IMO...

I have real doubts that any powerful politician anywhere is that sincere on any matter.

Of course, if he moves Labor to the left (see my post above) that might be an interesting developement (and a good one, probably.)

[MariMayans]

6. I think you would be disapointed

This is just my opinion.

Peres is probably the most reviled man in the Israeli political body today. The left hates him because he lied about his negotiations and the right sees him as another agent of Amalek for ever daring to talk to Palestinians if even to fuck them over a bit more.

I will bet any amount of money this man will never come to power again.

[Darranar]

7. I agree...

he alienated the Israeli Left and he's trying to be forgiven and draw Labor back towards the Left. Politics sometimes requires quick forgiveness; it could well happen in Israel, just like it will happen here after the primaries.

I don't think he really cares about the Palestinians, but I do think he'd be a far better PM then Sharon, if for nothing but polical gain. ABS or N (anyone but Sharon or Netanyahu), right?

[Equinox]

8. I think what marimayans is saying is this:

Under Oslo with Labor, the Palestinians were being bent over and out of the camera's view. Here's Labor smiling for the cameras and saying "All is well with our Palestinian peace partners." In reality settlements were being built at an ever increasing rate under the radar of world opinion. Labor is the sneaky little con man at the street corner that pals up to you and lifts your wallet.

One only has to look at Barak's "generous" offer. This is how Labor operates. "See we gave them everything and they turned it down." No one new the offer wasn't worth the paper that it was never even written down on!

I'd almost prefer Likud and their overt ways, at least you see what you get.

Edit: MariMayans, please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Darranar]

9. Negotiations are better than violence...

though I agree that Labor really isn't as good as some make it out to be, negotiations can accomplish something; a temporary end to violence.

[MariMayans]

10. but it doesn't end violence

Palestinians statisticly die at no greater or lesser rate compared with Palestinian violence against Israeli's, under both Labor and Likud.

[Darranar]

11. Uh... what?

Do you mean that when Palestinians aren't being attacked by the IDf their death rate is just as high as when they are? I have sincere doubts... An even ending violence towards one side is a good development.

[MariMayans]

12. no..

I mean that Palestinians continue to be shot at checkpoints and blown up no matter if one of them acts violently or not.

[Darranar]

13. Links? Sources?

That is very interesting.

[MariMayans]

14. I've seen better breakdowns, but..

Take 1996 for an example. Year of the Wye agreement and all that. There was one suicide bombing the entire year but Israel's assault on Ramallah resuted in over eight-hundred casualties and no one even pretended it had anything to do with the bombing.

[Darranar]

15. Links? Source?

[Gimel]

16. Yes, Please

What are the 800 Palestinian casualties in 1996? Injuries that require medical attention?

That was the year of two suicide attacks on busses in Jerusalem (Feb 25, killed 17 civilians and 9 soldiers; March 3 killed 16 civilians and 3 soldiers)as wll as the suicide attack near the Dizengoff square in Tel Aviv (killing 13 civilians and 1 soldier) Also several Israelis were killed in drive-by shootings and random shooting at civilians in stores and on the streets.

[MariMayans]

17. You are right

I forgot about Jerusalem.

Apparently you are familiar with the definition of casualty and I point out that nothing Palestinians have ever done managed that magnitude of suffering. The death toll was over fifty but it's the story of the wounded that tells the tale of the scope.

[Darranar]

18. Additionally...

800 compared to 8,000 doesn't prove your point.

[MariMayans]

19. I picked one day..

That isn't a year, it's one day.