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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 03:06 AM
Original message
IDF foils suicide attack near Jenin
Two armed Palestinians were killed and three wounded by Israel Defense Forces fire yesterday in several incidents in the territories. Troops also arrested two Palestinians attempting to bomb a West Bank checkpoint.

IDF soldiers operating in the northern Gaza Strip against Qassam-launching cells came under fire yesterday from three anti-tank rockets. There were no casualties. A Qassam rocket landed in an open area in the western Negev, causing no damage.

In an incident before dawn yesterday, infantry reservists east of the Dahaniya airfield in Rafah spotted two armed militants approaching and opened fire, killing one and wounding the other.

In the West Bank, soldiers foiled an attempted suicide bombing at the Reihan checkpoint west of Jenin. A routine security check of two Palestinian youths turned up two 1-kilo pipe bombs strapped to one of the youths. They told interrogators they we re sent by Hamas to attack the checkpoint. Sappers safely detonated the explosives.


more...
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shergald Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
1. Well, as bad as this may seem,
at least the suicide bombers are not targeting civilians as opposed to the military occupiers. So what is the problem? Attacks from the French resistance during WWII were against the German occupiers. Now we have the Israeli military occupying the Palestinian territories and the Palestinian people, who watch as their homes are being demolished and their land is being confiscated for settlements on a day to day basis.

Isn't this what an occupied people is supposed to do? Resist? Or would it be preferred that they accept their brutal and humiliating treatment passively. Well, the truth is that over 99% of the resistance against military occupation is nonviolent. The problem is that it does not get any media attention. It is only when Palestinians act violently that we get news from the region.

Most regret these incidents in which Israel soldiers, husbands and fathers, might be killed. But Palestinian husbands and fathers are routinely killed every day by IDF soldiers or F16s or helicopter gunships. We just don't hear about them because they are not Israeli, or at least we are less likely to about them. Our media censorship does not permit it.
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sabbat hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. any links
do you have any links to prove your statement that 99% of the resistance is non violent against israel?

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shergald Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Good point.
I got that percentage from a site that now confronts my memory without success. To get a feeling about all of the nonviolent protesting going on, latch onto the websites of Gush Shalom, Electronic Intifada, and Occupation Magazine, which reports articles from a variety of sources which cover protests by numerous organizations. Protests are happening everyday; what we hear about are only those violent expressions against Israeli occupiers and in the past, in Israel proper. There are over 200 proPalestinian peace activist groups in countries in Israel and around the world, which are also sponsoring nonviolent protests. However, if I can find the source, I'd be happy to send it along.
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idontwantaname Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. you can start here
palsolidarity.org/main/

a decent cross section of the palestinian nonviolent movement, though theres a lot of palestinians who do good nonviolent community building work who seldom get credit or recognition in western media... or really any media for that matter.

all the same if you read the reports you can see why some may feel nonviolence is for the birds....
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shergald Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Thanks for the help.
I found a thread I post at DKos listing numerous peace organizations. Hope DU doesn't mind the space it takes.

The Other Israel is the name of a book I havent read but intend to shortly. I draw it to the attention of those, who might be interested in a more complete picture of the politics of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict within Israel. Here is how the book is described by Alain Epp Weaver, peace development worker with the Mennonite Central Committee located in Bethlehem.

In the fall of 2002, a remarkable collection of essays, edited by Roane Carey and Jonathan Shainin, entitled The Other Israel (New York: The New Press, 2002), was released The volume brought together essays by over 20 Israeli journalists, academics and peace activists, who collectively make up a portrait of an "Other Israel," one which believes that peace and Israeli security will be built upon foundations of justice instead of imposed by tanks, bulldozers and machine guns. Some of Mennonite Central Committee's partners, such as the Palestinian Center for Rapprochement between Peoples, the Wi'am Center for Conflict Resolution, and the Badil Resource Center for Refugee and Residency Rights, work on specific projects (olive harvesting, conflict resolution workshops, a Hebrew-language packet on the rights of Palestinian refugees) with some of these "Other Israelis."

http://peace.mennolink.org/articles/israelpeacegroups.h...

I was impressed by the number of peace organizations working within Israel (and the US) toward a fair and just solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Below are links to the websites of some of the major peace groups who make up the "Other Israel," along with short descriptions of the groups, most of which are taken from their websites. Together, these organizations provide a timely reminder that there are not simply "two sides," Israelis and Palestinians, but that there are Israelis who join with Palestinians in working for a future of reconciliation and peace built on a foundation of justice.

Rabbis for Human Rights: http://www.rhr.israel.net

"RHR was founded in 1998, in response to serious abuses by the Israeli military authorities in the suppression of the Intifada. The indifference of much of the country religious leadership and religiously identified citizenry to the suffering of innocent people seen as the enemy was a cause of concern to RHR's organizers."

Gush Shalom: http://www.gush-shalom.org/english

Gush Shalom calls for Israeli withdrawal from the occupied territories and for Jerusalem to be the shared capital of the State of Israel and a future Palestinian state. This is my favorite group. One day I suspect that Uri Avnery, its founder, will receive the Nobel Peace Prize.

Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions: http://www.icahd.org

"ICAHD is a non-violent, direct-action group originally established to oppose and resist Israeli demolition of Palestinian houses in the Occupied Territories. As our activists gained direct knowledge of the brutalities of the Occupation, we expanded our resistance activities to other areas - land expropriation, settlement expansion, by-pass road construction, policies of "closure" and "separation," the wholesale uprooting of fruit and olive trees and more. The fierce repression of Palestinian efforts to "shake off" the Occupation following the latest Intifada has only added urgency to our efforts. As a direct-action group, ICAHD is comprised of members of many Israeli peace and human rights organizations. All of our work in the Occupied Territories is closely coordinated with local Palestinian organizations."

Yesh Gvul: http://www.yesh-gvul.org/english.html

Yesh Gvul (Hebrew for "There is a Limit!") " is an Israeli peace group that has shouldered the task of supporting soldiers who refuse assignments of a repressive or aggressive nature. The brutal role of the Israel Defense Force (IDF) in subjugating the Palestinian population places numerous servicemen in a grave moral and political dilemma, as they are required to enforce policies they deem illegal and immoral. The army demands compliance, but many soldiers, whether conscripts or reservists, find that they cannot in good conscience obey the orders of their superiors."

New Profile: http://www.newprofile.org/english

We, Israeli women - Jewish and Palestinian - oppose the occupation of the Palestinian people and refuse to take part in any of its destructive aspects. We refuse to live as enemies We refuse to fulfill the roles that women are expected to fulfill during wartime We refuse to pay the economic and social price of the occupation We refuse to be ignorant and to succumb to terrorizing and silencing We refuse to raise children to war, poverty and oppression We refuse to remain silent A collective refusal of women can change reality. A feminine refusal means an alternative voice and a language opposed to the language of power.

Ta'ayush: http://www.taayush.org

Ta'ayush means "coexistence" in Arabic. The Jewish-Israeli and Palestinian-Israeli members of Ta'ayush live out coexistence as they join to help Palestinian farmers harassed by Israeli settlers harvest their olives or make solidarity and relief visits to Palestinian Bedouin in the Hebron hills threatened with eviction by Israeli settlers and the military.

Bat Shalom: http://www.batshalom.org

"Bat Shalom is a feminist peace organization of Israeli women. We work toward a just peace between Israel and its Arab neighbors that includes recognition of a Palestinian state side-by-side with Israel and Jerusalem as the capital of both. Within Israel, Bat Shalom works toward a more just and democratic society shaped equally by men and women."

The Alternative Information Center: http://www.alternativenews.org

"The AIC is a Palestinian-Israeli organization which disseminates information, research and political analysis on Palestinian and Israeli societies as well as the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, while promoting cooperation between Palestinians and Israelis based on the values of social justice, solidarity and community involvement."

Another site, provides links to many, many other human rights and peace activist groups in Israel (and America), seventy-seven of them, that are working to bring peace. They are listed in alphabetical order.

http://www.ariga.com/humanrights/index.shtml

Adalah non-profit, non-sectarian legal center
Adam Institute The Adam Institute for Democracy and Peace in Memory of Emil Greenzweig
Adam, Teva Vadin: Israel Union for Environmental Defense
Addamir Addamir Prisoner Support Center
A Different Future
Adva The Adva Center
AIC Alternative Information Center
Al-Liqa Center for Religious and Heritage Studies in the Holy Land
Amnesty International Israel Section
Association for Civil Rights in Israel
Bereaved Families Circle Israeli and Palestinian families who lost loved ones in war and terror
Brit Tzedek v'Shalom, the Jewish Alliance for Justice
B'Tselem Israeli human rights group focused on civil rights for Palestinians
Bustan L'Shalom
Christian Peacemaker Team In Hebron
Coalition of Women for a Just Peace
Compassionate Listening Project
DCI Defense for Children International
Democracy and Workers Rights Center
Dukium -- Negev Coexistence Forum
Friends of the Earth Middle East
Friendship Village
Gaza Community Mental Health Program
Givat Haviva Jewish-Arab education center
HaMoked Center for the Defense of the Individual
International Forum for Justice and Peace in Palestine
Israel Religious Action Center For Human Equality, Social Justice, Religious Tolerance
Israel Womens Network
Israeli Council for Israeli-Palestinian Peace
Israel-Palestine Center for Research and Information (IPCRI)
Ittijah Union of Arab Community Based Associations
Jewish Peace Fellowship
Jewish Voice for Peace
Kav La'Oved - Worker's Hotline for the Protection of Worker's Rights
Kav Yarok THE GREEN LINE - STUDENTS DRAW THE LINE
Kol HaIsha - Women's Center
LAW -- The Palestinian Society for the Protection of Human Rights and the Environment
MadreInternational Women's Human Rights Organization
Mandela Institute for Prisoners
Megido Peace Project
Meretz USA
Middle East Region Professional Training Program
Middle Way
The Mossawa Center
Movement of Democratic Women in Israel
Negev Institute for Strategies of Peace and Development
Neve Shalom - Wahat al Salam
New Family
Nisan Young Women Leaders
Not in My Name
Open House
Palestine Human Rights Information Center
Palestinian Center for Human Rights
Palestinian Human Rights Monitoring Group (Bassam Eid)
Palestinian Independent Commission for Citizens' Rights
Palestine-Israel Journal
Peacequest -- European Palestine Israel Centre
PeaceWatch
Physicians for Human Rights-Israel
Progressive Jewish Alliance
Public Committee Against Torture in Israel
Seeds of Peace
Seeking Peace, Pursuing Justice (Reform Judaism for Social Justice and Peace)
Sikkuy The Association for the Advancement of Equal Opportunity
Social Development Committee of Haifa (Updated April 25, 2006)
Society for the Protection of Personal Rights for Lesbians, Gay Men and Bisexuals in Israel
Society of St. Yves Legal support organization
Ta'ayush Arab Jewish partnership
Teena - The Cultural and Educational Society
The Interfaith Encounter Association
The Abraham Fund
The Arab Association for Human Rights (HRA)
The Center for Jewish-Arab Economic Development
The People's Voice (Nusseibeh-Ayalon)
Windows -Channels For Communication
Women in Black
Women's Organization for Political Prisoners

Although small in its overall impact, it is satisfying to know that there is a liberal, left wing in Israel, which is concerned with bringing justice and reconciliation to resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
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idontwantaname Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. here are some other groups not on the above list:
International Women's Peace Service
IWPS-Palestine is an international team of women based in Haris, a village in the Salfit Governorate of Occupied Palestine's West Bank, which began for three continuous years in August 2002. IWPS-Palestine documents human rights abuses, nonviolently intervenes in abuses, and works with the media. IWPS-Palestine joins Palestinians in acts of nonviolent direct action to oppose human rights abuses and the confiscation and destruction of land and property of Palestinian people. This includes joining demonstrations and opposition to the Apartheid Wall, helping remove roadblocks, and accompanying ambulances and Palestinians whilst they farm. IWPS-Palestine supports Palestinian and Israeli anti-occupation groups in their grassroots resistance to end the brutal and illegal military Occupation.

More info at http://www.womenspeacepalestine.org
Request Volunteer Applications at: iwpsvolunteers@yahoo.co.uk






Birthright Unplugged
Birthright Unplugged is a program designed primarily for young Jewish people to visit the Palestinian occupied territories. We realize that this experience is largely missing from most Jewish-led trips to the Middle East. As American Jews, we have a specific responsibility to understand the situation well and to promote concepts of social justice and human rights for all people in the world. Birthright Unplugged welcomes participants of all ages and backgrounds.

In six days, we visit Palestinian cities, villages and refugee camps and help participants develop an understanding of daily life under occupation. We meet with Palestinian and Israeli community leaders, NGO representatives, peace activists, political figures and families. We encourage participants to be deeply reflective and give them a chance to ask tough questions.

The participants are generally people who are already in the country, either having just completed a conventional Jewish-led tour in Israel or studying in an international program at an Israeli institution.

Trips are facilitated by two women who have spent extended periods in Palestine/Israel. They are experienced trip leaders in the West Bank, and have lived or worked in all the communities where we spend time.

For more information: http://www.birthrightunplugged.org /





Birzeit University - Palestine and Arabic Studies
Birzeit University continues to encourage international students to enroll in the international student program. Aside from the academic courses offered, a semester with the Palestine and Arabic Studies program offers international students a unique opportunity to be at the center of the scene. Students majoring in journalism, international relations and Middle Eastern Studies for example, will be able to hear from Palestinians why the Oslo Accords could not bring peace, what are the prospects facing Palestinians, where we go from here. They will see with their own eyes the untold story of a largely unarmed people humiliated and daily oppressed by the largest military power of the Middle East.
Approximately 50 international students are expected this summer. Prospective applicants interested in learning about the experiences of current or last summer's PAS students, will be connected to a correspondence contact upon request.
Application deadline: May 30 - Applications arriving after this date will be considered for approval, but will incur a US$25 late-application fee.

More info at: http://home.birzeit.edu/pas /








An-Najah University - Zajel Youth Exchange Program

An-Najah University in Nablus, Palestine organizes the Zajel Youth Exchange Program. Since 2000, this program has fostered international and inter-cultural understanding, and enhanced social development in the Nablus area, in the Northern West Bank.

They organize a Summer Work Camp program for young people, up to 35 years of age. It unites approximately 20 volunteers from around the world to engage in community development work, including work with children in refugee camps. The Summer Work Camps are run by young people, for young people.

Zajel also offers long-term voluntary work placement at the Public Relations department of An-Najah University. This can involve many things, including presenting news on their local radio station, flim making, office volunteering, international networking or various aspects of journalism. Many possibilities are open to interested volunteers, and housing is provided for.

For more information: http://youth.zajel.org /




Middle East Fellowship
Middle East Fellowship sponsors delegations to Palestine, Israel and Jordan. All travel programs are arranged and developed in full partnership with their Sister organization, Holy Land Trust, in Bethlehem.

For more info: Middle East Fellowship: http://www.middleeastfellowship.org





Project Hope
From Project Hope's Mission Statement: Project Hope provides opportunities for the Youth of Palestine. We bring together internationals and Palestinians to teach language classes, produce drama and art, and provide other important activities in the local community. Through alternatives to violence, we are improving both the physical and mental health of the children. Many of our programs are geared to the community at large, with training courses to provide skills to people that will improve their everyday lives. Project Hope works to improve the condition of Palestinian women. They are very active in running our programs, as well as participating in them. Project Hope is also active in the medical field, aiming to improve basic medical knowledge within the community and helping to acquire new medical supplies. Through education and recreation, along with the serious involvement of women, we provide hope to the people and enrich the community. Medical and training courses help with the actual aspects of everyday life and survival. Our involvement provides an alternative to a desperate and violent environment, with the goal of improving their mental health. Our focus on children provides hope for the future.

More info at http://projecthope.ps /



and of course, International Solidarity Movement
The International Solidarity Movement is a Palestinian-led movement of Palestinian and International activists working to raise awareness of the struggle for Palestinian freedom and an end to Israeli occupation. We utilize nonviolent, direct-action methods of resistance to confront and challenge illegal Israeli occupation forces and policies.

More info at http://www.palsolidarity.org

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shergald Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Wonderful resources.
I hope that the person who asked me for links to peace groups involved in nonviolent protest finds these resources also. There are still many others situated in foreign countries that work in a variety of ways to promote peace. Thanks.
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breakaleg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Sadly, you'll find that a lot of people around here don't feel that
Palestinians are allowed to resist the occupation.
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shergald Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. I guess they will have to deal with their own biases.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Nope.
I don't believe the Palestinians should resist the Occupation violently. It's an occupation, and it's dead wrong, but they don't serve themselves or the cause of peace well by suicide bombings. As for all the sources you list, they're all biased. I have about as much faith in them as I do in the Jewish Virtual Library. Their "facts" are just as manipulated as any from a purely pro-Israeli source.
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shergald Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Not certain who this post was directed at, but if I may respond:
you are correct. Suicide bombings have never served to advance the Palestinian cause or to get them out from under the incessant military occupation or to stop the confiscation of their lands, orchards, and farms. The problem is that, although there is much more almost daily nonviolent resistance going on in the West Bank and Gaza, as Ghandi very well knew, unless it is publicized, it fails in its purpose. The Palestinians only get press when they act violently, and only when it is against Israelis. It is for this reason that it is very easy to sell Americans the notion that the Palestinians are perpetrators, the Israelis victims, in spite of the brutality of the military occupation, where Palestinians die daily but no one gets to know about it.

Nonviolent resistance to the military occupation requires publicity to be effective. But as things stand, and I know you don't like my hyping the documentary, Peace, Propaganda, etc., it does explain why we are not hearing about the nonviolent resistance in the US. They do in Europe, which is why they are more sympathetic to the Palestinian cause.

Not certain what you mean by the bias of "facts" provided by all of those peace organizations listed, but most if not all of them are not fact machines, but action groups interested in nonviolent protest. Jeff Halper, Dr. Halper, if you will, professor of anthropology at Ben Gurion University and founder of Israeli Committee Against House Demolition, on the other hand, does engage in writing about the conflict, as does Uri Avnery, founder of Gush Shalom. However, if you equate bias with a point of view on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and would not read their works for this reason, then I would kind of disagree with your interpretation of what is a bias. Both of them are Israelis against government policies in the West Bank and Gaza. Would you say that someone who approves of the military occupation is unbiased?

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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I'd say no one is unbiased
To be human is to have bias. It's that simple. We synthesize information through our individual and collective experiences and our individual sensibilities.
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shergald Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. So it not really a good reason to avoid them or not pay attention.
The bias of all of these nonviolent peace activist groups is "peace, fairness, justice," or in some cases "humanitarian assistance." I kind of like these biases. Doesn't everyone?
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I don't think you can characterize
those groups so simplistically, though you do raise a valid point; that is that it's important to recognize that organizations have a bias and factor that in. Some of the groups you mentioned, EI, for example, have such a strong pro-Palestinian bias that their slant is obvious, and it's not nearly as simple as your interpretation of it being "on the side of the angels".
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shergald Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. EI=Electronic Intifada.
EI is not peace activist organization, but it unquestionably provides a Palestinian perspective on life and events in the West Bank and Gaza, and does report on the activities of peace groups. It is a good source for information not available in the US mainstream media.

A more important issue is not necessarily bias in the sense you are using the term, but how true and valid the information they provide is. Do they decontextualize reports, reframe it, censor it, etc. Unlike proIsraeli sites where you will never hear the word "occupation" used, for eample, it is continually used when appropriate in articles posted on EI when the West Bank and Gaza are discussed. Providing context helps one to understand why things, even bad things, happen, what motivates them.

Have you read Frank Luntz's (Republican pollster) consultation report for the Israel Project, a well funded organization allegedly developed to counteract bad publicity about Israel. If not please get it from the Israel Project site. It is not about bias, but about how to present and alter information for propaganda purposes.
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Phx_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Your confusing values and cognitive biases.
There are dozens of cognitive biases, several like in-group, (dis)confirmation and omission bias helps explain why people often reach different conclusions based on the same information.
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shergald Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Cali doesn't like my repeating this, but...
if you haven't seen Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land, please do so. It is available at Google Video. It will confirm precisely what you are refering to, cognitive bias. It is about the manipulation of information about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in US news media. You probably will never believe that Israel is fighting the war on terrorism against the Palestinians. "Terror, terror, terror." Sharon couldn't repeat it enough.

Here it is:

Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land (with Noam Chomsky, Robert Fisk, Arik Ackerman, founder of Rabbis for Human Rights, and many others)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-78281237143849...

A documentary by Alison Weir called "Off The Charts" is also excellant on the effect of overall reporting of the conflict on American's views.

You can also learn a great deal about propaganda and the manipulation of information from a consultation report Frank Luntz, the Republican pollster, completed for the Israel Project. Go to their site and you will be able to download it.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Repeat it to your heart's content.
I have no objection to people pushing for their pov, even when they think it's the holy grail of objective truth.
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shergald Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. My POV is irrelevant.
Everyone must judge for himself or herself. As it happens, as an average American, I now know where my thoughts about the IP conflict derive from. I know what information I am not getting, and when information I do get is distorted to achieve a proIsraeli bias. I can understand commentary and the language used in MSM broadcasts. I can understand a lot of things. I no longer feel deluded nor deceived by the propaganda.

People need to judge for themselves. Obviously you have not seen these documentaries.

Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land (with Noam Chomsky, Robert Fisk, Arik Ackerman, founder of Rabbis for Human Rights, and many others)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-78281237143849...

Off The Charts: Media Bias and Censorship in America
(Alison Weir)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-56006779405690...

Interview: Jeff Halper (founder of Israeli Committee Against House Demolition (ICAHD). Good for what we do not see in America concerning what actually goes on in the West Bank and Gaza.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=972845012851906...

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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #1
18. very very little non violence protests.....
Edited on Fri Oct-13-06 12:59 AM by pelsar
infact outside of the traditional friday afternoon consisting of between 10-100 (as i recall)..there are almost no non violent protests. There used to be constant protests daily by the palestenains but they consisted of stone throwing to automatic gun fire....it varied.

today whereas there may be many groups with a "non violent" agenda.....actual protests are almost non existant...and have always been, since the start of intifafa II


and theres this group:
http://www.combatantsforpeace.org/article.asp?lng=eng
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idontwantaname Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. ...
Edited on Fri Oct-13-06 01:04 AM by idontwantaname
now i might disagree with you here. i feel there are a good amount of nonviolent protests (short of kids throwing stones at the IDF). however if you remove the IDF from the equation, its a nonissue.

where things get real sketchy is not only does IDF presence add to the level of friction, but they are the primary and at times the only source of real violence that goes on.

it does not compare when you have 5 boys (age 10?) throwing rocks at a unit of men more than 100m away with automatic rifles and batons.
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. i'm not even talking about stones..
real protests...as in intifada I (sort of non violent-just rocks).....masses coming out...not a few select scattered small groups with intl help...that is in "grass roots" campaign based on a real philosopy of non violence.....protests that declare unequivocally that they are non voilent and challange the IDF to react!

such protests would howeve also be challanging the local islamic jihad etc......

there are many groups as in the above lists that promote it...but they represent a far larger israeli majority than palestenian......
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idontwantaname Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. farms vs cities
Edited on Fri Oct-13-06 10:14 AM by idontwantaname
referring to your last line:

this is because the palestinins dont have proper and formal groups and orgs to represent them. the farmers in budrus never formed a group with a website. its a village of 1000 people. they dont even have a restaurant in the entire village!

so to argue there are few palestinian nonviolent groups because you cant find their website is quite a poor argument. i would say the israeli anarchists try to attend nearly every demonstration there is in the west bank, with the exception of nablus region. most of these they are invited to by the palestinians. in most all cases they dont attend a demo unless they have been invited.

dont you remember that artile i posted about the israeli anarchist and hamas leader???

------------------------

ghandi redux



Last Friday Laser and Hassan walked side by side along the main street
of Bilin. Laser Peles (who was born in Kfar Chabad, abandoned religion,
came out of the closet, was the spokesman for the gay-lesbian faction
in Meretz and one of the most devoted activists of Anarchists Against
the Fence) has made Bilin, a small Palestinian village adjacent to the
settlement of Upper Modi'in, his second home. Sheikh Hassan Yusuf, who
also has an ultra-Orthodox background, but contrary to Laser maintained
a close connection with religion, was deported to Lebanon, served six
years in an Israeli prison and another six months in a Palestinian
prison, is today considered the leader of Hamas in the West Bank.

"I am happy that you are here, the Israelis," the ultra-Orthodox
believer from Ramallah said to the former Haredi (Jewish ultra-Orthodox
believer) from Kfar Chabad, and the two, joined by another 500 or so
Palestinians and about 100 Israelis, continued on their way to the
weekly demonstration against the separation fence at Bilin.

<snip>





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idontwantaname Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. so in conclusion
i would say the greatest thing to happen to the general israeli public are these nonviolent groups, the israeli anarchists which get invited to attend demos. they are invited into palestinian homes, fed food and tea and are welcomed back. if the israelis would embrace these folks instead of assaulting and arresting them the I/P situation would be very different.

dont you agree?
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