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damnraddem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 04:52 PM
Original message
The end of Zionism.
It's not breaking news, and it's commentary; but it's interesting: http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1041960,... .

Quote: "The Zionist revolution has always rested on two pillars: a just path and an ethical leadership. Neither of these is operative any longer. The Israeli nation today rests on a scaffolding of corruption, and on foundations of oppression and injustice. As such, the end of the Zionist enterprise is already on our doorstep. There is a real chance that ours will be the last Zionist generation. There may yet be a Jewish state here, but it will be a different sort, strange and ugly."
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. I read that originally in The Forward
Good piece, it was first published with a different title -- A Failed Israeli Society Collapses While Its Leaders Remain Silent
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quilp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. Some of us "non-Jews" have been waiting for a Jewish voice
like Mr. Burg's for a long, long time. The silence of Jewish intellectuals over the fate of the Palestinian people has been breathtaking. But, it is possible that just as the voice of liberalism has been muted in the USA, so it may be for the Israelis. How would we know? Our 'media" sure isn't going to tell us. Even this came from the UK Guardian, and not the USA NY Times.
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LeahMira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. Zionism ...
From the article:
"Yes, we have revived the Hebrew language, created a marvelous theater and a strong national currency. Our Jewish minds are as sharp as ever. We are traded on the Nasdaq. But is this why we created a state? The Jewish people did not survive for two millennia in order to pioneer new weaponry, computer security programs or anti-missile missiles. We were supposed to be a light unto the nations. In this we have failed."

I don't believe the Jewish people hoped for anti-missile systems and I don't believe the Jewish people hoped to be a light unto the nations... although there's a lot of that rhetoric around.

The Jerusalem Program, which is the encapsulation of the Zionist dream, speaks of a homeland to which all Jewish people could come and a homeland with political and social systems based on prophetic ideals of peace and justice.

Generations of Israelis now have grown up knowing no peace at all. Generations of Israeli children have no memory of a time when they were not under siege. So also have generations of Palestinian children. How do people get past that fear?

Sharon is as bad for the Israelis as Bush is for us in the U.S. He draws out the worst in people rather than the best in them.

I don't know the answers except for the answer that ultimately there must be a place that the Palestinians can call home also.

I do know that it doesn't help if the U.S. takes sides... certainly not with Bush in charge!

I also wonder why, if the Jewish State can bring thousands of Jews from the Soviet Union, Ethiopia, Syria, etc. to Israel just because they need help and because they are Jews, why can't the Arab nations bring Palestinians to Jordan, Egypt, etc. for the same kinds of reasons... not to give the Israelis "their way" but to help the people who are in need. I mean really, so what if the Israelis get the land they are occupying sort of by default as long as the Palestinians who are suffering have an end to that suffering? Isn't that more important than who wins and who loses? For that matter, why can't the U.S. offer a few of them a new home here?
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dai Donating Member (129 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Palestinian emigration
why can't the Arab nations bring Palestinians to Jordan, Egypt, etc. for the same kinds of reasons... not to give the Israelis "their way" but to help the people who are in need. I mean really, so what if the Israelis get the land they are occupying sort of by default as long as the Palestinians who are suffering have an end to that suffering? Isn't that more important than who wins and who loses? For that matter, why can't the U.S. offer a few of them a new home here?

The rate of emigration from Palestine has actually increased greatly since the beginning of the intifada, I believe it is still chiefly to Jordan, but the numbers going to the West are increasing as well. This article discusses the trend in more detail:

http://www.kokhavivpublications.com/2001/israel/oct/05/...
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Hi Leah.
Welcome to DU.

"Generations of Israelis now have grown up knowing no peace at all.
Generations of Israeli children have no memory of a time when they
were not under siege. So also have generations of Palestinian
children. How do people get past that fear?"

Karma is a bitch. What is done over decades is not undone in a week.
Fear and hate make you stupid. The first step is to get some better
leaders, one, two, on either side, it will help, on both sides you
can start to make some progress.

Wish I had a better answer.
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MariMayans Donating Member (250 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-03 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. because the Palestinians don't want to leave..
or they already would have. They aren't staying there just to spite Israel, they are staying because it's their home.
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