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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-22-06 06:06 PM
Original message
Israel launches Gaza incursions
There have been clashes in the Gaza Strip after Israeli troops backed by tanks launched several incursions into the territory.

Palestinian medical sources said three people had been killed by Israeli fire in southern Gaza.
...
Israeli soldiers, backed by helicopter gunships, tanks and armoured personnel carriers, moved into Palestinian-controlled areas near the main cargo crossing between Israel and Gaza at Karni, conducting house-to-house searches.
...
One of the militants was wounded and all five were arrested, the Israeli army said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5273882.stm


So the deaths continue, with nearly 200 Palestinians now dead. Any chance of a ceasefire here too? I know Bolton vetoed the original call for a ceasefire - does he want more Palestinians dead before he allows talks to proceed in the UN?
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Drum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-22-06 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. ...Must...Fight...SOMEBODY! n/t
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-22-06 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. I love these selective excerpts ... here's the context
from the OP's link

Palestinian security officials said the three had been sent to carry out an attack.
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maalak Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-22-06 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. that's clearly irrelevant...

what difference could it possibly make that Israel was being attacked? :sarcasm:
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-22-06 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Hey, if you can get the 4 paragraph restriction lifted
I'll be glad to give more details. I wanted to give numbers. Complain to admin about how much detail we can give.
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maalak Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-22-06 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. yes, leaving out that 1 sentence clearly would have put you over 4 pp...
Edited on Tue Aug-22-06 06:43 PM by maalak

or even still... you could have put that in the comments.

but i guess what wouldn't have had quite the same effect, right?

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Englander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 04:50 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. Here's some more context -
Edited on Wed Aug-23-06 04:54 AM by Englander
Gaza = OPT, Israeli forces are deliberately targeting, & destroying, the civilian infrastructure
in Gaza.

End the occupation, end the destruction of Palestinian homes, &tc, & any justification for any
attacks is ended.

From the end of the BBC article;

'>snip

Israel has been conducting an offensive in Gaza since Palestinian militants seized an Israeli soldier in a cross-border raid on 25 June.

Nearly 200 Palestinians, many of them civilians, have been killed in air raids and ground assaults since then and there has been major damage to Gaza's roads, bridges and government buildings.'
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. heres some news...
Israel ended the occupation of gaza...and stopped attacking.....except the kassams kept flyng into israeli cities from gaza, (same with lebanon)

hey heres an idea for both lebanon and gaza:...stop trying to kill israelis, (worked with jordan, worked with Egypt, worked with syria, I think i see a pattern which goes like this:

dont try to kill israelis and the israelis wont kill in return....
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Englander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. For those who care -

'Human Rights Council Special Session on the Occupied Palestinian Territories, July 6, 2006
Human Rights Watch written statement

(Geneva, July 6, 2006) – This first special session of the Human Rights Council provides an important opportunity to address the current humanitarian and security crisis in the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT), especially in Gaza, where Israeli military actions have led to the killing of Palestinian civilians, as well as periodic shortages of food, fuel, electricity, water and medicine, and Palestinian armed groups have committed serious violations of international humanitarian law. The council should address abuses by both sides to the conflict. In addition, Human Rights Watch hopes that this will be the first of many special sessions of the council, and that the council will demonstrate its political objectivity by providing an equally timely response to the many other serious and deteriorating human rights situations around the world.

According to the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA), in May and June 2006, 87 Palestinians were killed in Gaza and almost 300 injured, mostly from Israeli fire but also due to clashes between Palestinian armed groups and individuals. Many of those killed in June were Palestinian civilians who died during Israeli air force “targeted killings,” which either missed their targets entirely or caused significant civilian casualties. During this period, Palestinian groups have indiscriminately fired numerous Qassam rockets at Israeli towns.

Gaza’s population of 1.5 million is currently facing significant hardships due to the Israeli blockade on Gaza’s few crossing points, Israel’s destruction of Gaza’s only electric plant and Israel’s withholding of Palestinian tax revenues, coupled with international donor aid cuts after the swearing-in of the Hamas-led Palestinian Authority in March 2006. As a result, for the fifth month in a row, the Palestinian Authority has been unable to pay most salaries to its approximately 160,000 civil servants.

Even though Israel unilaterally withdrew its troops and settlements from Gaza in 2005, it continues to have obligations as an occupying power in Gaza under the Fourth Geneva Convention because of its almost complete control over Gaza’s borders, sea and air space, tax revenue, utilities, population registry, and the internal economy of Gaza. At a minimum, Israel continues to be responsible for the basic welfare of the Palestinian population in Gaza.

>snip

Human Rights Watch also calls on Israeli security forces and Palestinian armed groups to respect international humanitarian law and human rights principles. As an occupying power in Gaza, Israel remains responsible for the basic welfare of the Palestinian population in Gaza, in particular the health, educational and humanitarian needs of the population, to the extent these are affected by Israeli restrictions. Israel must ensure that it does not fire indiscriminately in civilian areas, that attacks on military objects do not cause disproportionate civilian harm, and that it does not target objects indispensable to the survival of the civilian population. In addition, Israel should cease using aircraft intending to cause fear among the population by creating sonic booms over the Occupied Palestinian Territories. Palestinian armed groups should ensure Corporal Shalit’s well being and stop making demands as a condition for his release, avoid locating military objects in densely populated areas, and should stop firing inherently indiscriminate Qassam rockets into Israel.

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/07/06/isrlpa13698.htm
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. and for those who can read...
but it sure ruins a "its israels fault"

israel has no "tax collectors in gaza to collect taxes, israel doesnt not control the egyptian/gaza border, which should be used for increased exporting (as a UN report mentioned), which means israel doesnt control the economy, the utilities are palestenain (wells etc)

seem HRWs isnt up todate...such simple facts and so easy to find discover, but then if we acknowledge them, we really cant blame israel for the palestenain problems which I'm sure is why they're still trying to kill israelis.....


But they did acknowledge:
avoid locating military objects in densely populated areas, and should stop firing inherently indiscriminate Qassam rockets into Israel.
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Englander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Oh, this is hilarious.
It's like playing chess blindfold, or sumzing. Trying to second-guess the fantastical fantasies
produced by 'ignored' is certainly entertaining.

'Israel/Occupied Territories: Deliberate attacks a war crime

30 June 2006

Deliberate attacks by Israeli forces against civilian property and infrastructure in the Gaza Strip violate international humanitarian law and constitute war crimes, Amnesty International said today.

"Israel must now take urgent measures to remedy the long-term damage it has caused and immediately restore the supply -- at its own cost -- of electricity and water to the Palestinian population in the affected areas," urged the organization. "As the occupying power, Israel is bound under international law to protect and safeguard the basic human rights of the Palestinian population."

The deliberate destruction of the Gaza Strip’s only electricity power station, water networks, bridges, roads and other infrastructure is a violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention and has major and long-term humanitarian consequences for the 1.5 million inhabitants of the Gaza Strip.

Almost half of Gaza’s inhabitants are now without electricity and water supplies have also been cut in several areas both by the lack of electricity, necessary to operate the water pumps used to extract and deliver water, and by the destruction of water mains as a result of the bombings of bridges and roads.

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMDE150612006?open&of=ENG-ISR

_____________________________

Escalating death toll for children in Gaza

By Sabine Dolan

NEW YORK, USA, 27 July 2006 – While clashes between Israel and Hezbollah intensify in Lebanon, fighting continues on a second front in Gaza in the occupied Palestinian territory (oPt). And the crisis is taking a heavy toll on children.

“In July alone, there were 35 children killed in Gaza, which is one of the highest numbers for a month over the last six years,” says UNICEF Special Representative in oPt, Dan Rohrmann.

According to Mr. Rohrmann, 63 children have died so far this year – a 30 per cent increase of the total figure of 2005. Some 100 children have also been injured.

Children, he says, are living in a “climate of extraordinary insecurity and fear.”

“UNICEF at the moment is stepping up its activities in health, water and sanitation, education, child protection and adolescents,” says Mr. Rohrmann.

http://www.unicef.org/emerg/index_35109.html

__________________________


Israel/Occupied Territories: Immediate action needed to avert humanitarian crisis in Gaza

23 March 2006

>snip

Background
The Israeli authorities contend that Israel’s occupation of the Gaza Strip ended when Israeli troops were withdrawn from the Strip in September 2005 and, consequently, that Israel is no longer bound by its obligations as an occupying power under international law in the Gaza Strip.

However, Israel continues to control all of the Gaza Strip’s points of entry and exit, as well as its territorial waters and airspace. Israel does not allow the Gaza Strip to have a seaport and destroyed Gaza’s airport in 2001, and only allows goods to enter or leave Gaza via Israel. Palestinian residents of the Gaza Strip are permitted to cross the border between the Gaza Strip and Egypt on foot via the Rafah crossing which is administered by the European Union Border Assistance Mission for the Rafah Crossing Point (EU BAM Rafah), but foreigners are only allowed to enter or leave the Gaza Strip via Israel.

As it remains in effective control of the Gaza Strip, Israel remains bound by its duties as the Occupying Power, as enumerated in the Fourth Geneva Convention. This Convention (Article 33) prohibits the collective punishment of protected persons: "No protected person may be punished for an offence he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited. Pillage is prohibited. Reprisals against protected persons and their property are prohibited."

According to Article 55 of Geneva IV “To the fullest extent of the means available to it, the Occupying Power has the duty of ensuring the food and medical supplies of the population; it should, in particular, bring in the necessary foodstuffs, medical stores and other articles if the resources of the occupied territory are inadequate.” And Article 59 specifies: “If the whole or part of the population of an occupied territory is inadequately supplied, the Occupying Power shall agree to relief schemes on behalf of the said population, and shall facilitate them by all the means at its disposal.”

Israel is also bound by its obligations as a state party to the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights. Particularly relevant are Article 11, the right of everyone to an adequate standard of living, including adequate food, clothing and housing, and to the continuous improvement of living conditions; and Article 12, the right of everyone to the enjoyment of the highest attainable standard of physical and mental health.

Lengthy procedures and delays at the Karni/Muntar crossing have significantly increased the cost of imports/exports and the frequent closures have exacerbated this impact, with products being damaged or wasted and Palestinian traders losing business in the export market because they are unable to guarantee that they can get their merchandise to their customers.

The international community, including the UN and the EU, has for years expressed concern at the devastating impact on the Palestinian economy of Israel’s policy of imposing closures and strict movement restrictions in the Occupied Territories. In 2003 the World Bank noted that: “The proximate cause of the Palestinian economic crisis is closure"(1).

The free movement of persons and goods is an essential element of any functioning economy, particularly so for a new economy trying to develop and establish itself against the backdrop of dependency arising from four decades of occupation. In the Gaza Strip unemployment runs at half the labour force and some two thirds of the population live in poverty and rely on international aid. So long as Israel continues to impose such restrictions on the movement of people and goods Palestinians have little hope for a better future.

In recent weeks, Israel has sought to impose a new arrangement whereby goods entering or leaving the Gaza Strip must pass through the Kerem Shalom crossing, near the south-eastern tip of the Gaza Strip. According to the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA), this crossing point has only a fraction of the capacity of the Karni/Muntar crossing and is not equipped to handle the large cargo necessary to meet the Gaza Strip requirements (2). In addition, the use of the Kerem Shalom crossing would entail a detour of several kilometres on both the Israeli and Palestinian sides, further adding to transport costs for Palestinians.

(1) "Twenty-seven Months - Intifada, Closures and Palestinian Economic Crisis: An assessment", World Bank, May 2003
(2) Gaza Strip Situation Report; The Humanitarian Impact of the Karni Crossing Closure: Bread running our in Gaza. UN OCHA, 19 March 2006.

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engMDE150252006?open&of=eng-ISR

____________________


10 June 2006: Israeli Human Rights Organizations: End Killing of Civilians

Five Israeli human rights organizations demanded today in an urgent appeal to the Prime Minister and the Minister of Defense that they take immediate action to end the killing of Palestinian civilians in the Occupied Territories, and to eradicate the factors contributing to these killings.

The organizations (B’Tselem, ACRI, PCATI, HaMoked and PHR-Israel) state that the killing of a family at the Gaza seashore on Friday (a father, mother and five children), apparently by a shell fired by Israeli soldiers, is a terrible addition to an already horrifying statistic: according to B'Tselem data, since the onset of the second Intifada, 3,431 Palestinians in the Occupied Territories have been killed by Israeli security forces. Of those, 698 were minors under the age of 18 years. At lease 1,645 of those killed were in no way taking part in the fighting at the time they were killed (and an additional 244 people were the targets of targeted killings). These dismal figures result directly from a series of Israeli policies, including illegal expansion of Israel's open-fire regulations, deliberate vagueness and double messages regarding the use of force, violation of the principle of proportionality and the failure to conduct independent investigations into civilian deaths.

The organizations add that it is indeed Israel's obligation to take all legitimate steps at its disposal to defend the lives and security of its citizens from attacks by Palestinian organizations. These attacks by Palestinian groups, which deliberately target civilians, constitute a war crime for which there can be no justification. However, it is unconscionable that a sovereign state should use illegal means, some of which reach the level of war crimes. The organizations reiterate that one of Israel's central obligations under international humanitarian law is to minimize the impact of military action on the civilian population, and to ensure the life and security of Palestinian civilians, also during armed conflict.

http://www.btselem.org/english/press_releases/20060610.asp

____________________



Israel's responsibility toward residents of the Gaza Strip

Scope of control

In September 2005, Israel completed the "disengagement plan" that was approved by the government and the Knesset. The two primary components of the plan were dismantling of the settlements there and moving the settlers to Israeli territory, and removal of all IDF forces from the Gaza Strip. After the plan was completed, Israel issued an order declaring the end of the military government in the Gaza Strip. The changes following disengagement resulted in some improvement in the ability of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip to run their lives. Most importantly, they are now able to move about freely in most of the territory. However, following disengagement, Israel continued to hold decisive control over important elements of Palestinian life in the Gaza Strip, as follows :

1. Air space and territorial waters : Israel continues to maintain complete control over the air and sea space of the Gaza Strip. Control of the air space provides Israel with the ability to effectively and easily control actions on the ground, and to interfere with radio and television broadcasts. Control of the coastal area and territorial waters enables Israel , among other things, to restrict the activity of Palestinian fishermen. Israel 's control is also manifested in the need to obtain Israeli approval to operate a seaport and airport, the lack of which impairs freedom of movement to and from the Gaza Strip .

2. Population registry: Israel continues to control the population registry, which includes both the Gaza Strip and the West Bank . Formal authority for administering the population registry was transferred under the Oslo II Agreement , of 1995, to the Palestinian Authority, but in practice, Israel continued to hold most of the powers regarding the registry. Almost every change in the registry made by the Palestinian Authority, except for the registration of children whose two parents are residents of the Occupied Territories , requires the prior approval of Israel . Israel does not recognize changes made by the Palestinian Authority without its approval. The same has been true following disengagement. By controlling the population registry, Israel continues to determine who is a "Palestinian resident" and who is a "foreigner." Also, Israel requires the Palestinian Authority to obtain its approval before making any change in the address of a resident of the Gaza Strip who wants to move to the West Bank . This c ontrol of the population registry significantly affects a number of areas of life.


Entry of "foreigners": Despite the handover of the Rafah border crossing between the Gaza Strip and Egypt to the control of the Palestinian Authority, Israel continues to control the entry into the Gaza Strip of persons who are not deemed residents of the Occupied Territories . According to the November 2005 agreement between the PA and Israel , the Palestinian Authority may permit entry into the Strip via Rafah only to "Palestinian residents," meaning individuals who are registered in the Palestinian population registry and hold Palestinian identity cards. Also, the Palestinian Authority must prevent the entry of Palestinian residents if Israel opposes their entry for security reasons. To ensure compliance with the agreement, European and American observers are posted at the Rafah crossing .


" Foreign" residents, except in exceptional cases, are only allowed to enter the Gaza Strip via the Kerem Shalom and Erez crossings, which are under Israel's sole control. Control over the entry of "foreigners" enables Israel to continue to control family unification between Gazans and their spouses who are foreign residents. Also, Israeli control plays a great role in social and economic matters in which the presence of experts from abroad is important .

3. Movement between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank: Israel continues to maintain complete control of the movement of people and goods between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank . This is the case also when the movement does not take place across Israeli territory. Israeli control is based on a military order that classifies the entire West Bank as a "closed military area," as to which entry and exit requires a permit issued by the military. Residents of Gaza who are caught in the West Bank without a permit, even if they have lived in the West Bank for years and established families there, are considered to be staying illegally in the area and are expelled to the Gaza Strip. As noted above, address change on a person's identity card from one area to the other requires Israel 's approval. In addition, Israel classifies many West Bank residents as "persons forbidden to go abroad," which also prevent s them from traveling to the Gaza Strip. Ongoing control of movement between the two areas is decisive in light of their mutual dependence: indeed, the two areas have functioned over the years as one territorial unit. The dependence is conspicuous in a number of key areas, such as public administration, health services, higher education, and trade. Also, most Gazans have close family and social ties with persons living in the West Bank , and vice versa .


4. Imports and Exports : Israel continues to exercise complete control over the movement of goods into the Gaza Strip. The three crossing points designated for this purpose – Karni, Sufa, and Kerem Shalom – are under Israel 's sole control. Rafah Crossing, the administration of which was handed over to the Palestinian Authority, has a terminal for the crossing of goods, but according to the November 2005 agreement, the crossing is limited to export s . Furthermore, t he PA's ability to export goods via Rafah Crossing is limited, given that most of the exports are intended for Israel or are shipped abroad via Israeli ports . As a result, most exports pass through Karni. The almost complete control of Israel over the movement of goods to and from the Gaza Strip means that closing of the commerical crossings, a frequent occurrence, paralyzes the Gaza Strip economy and causes a shortage of basic goods, including food and medicines.

5. The tax system: Relying on the arrangements made in the Paris Agreement (1994) between Israel and the Palestinian Authority, Israel continues to control most elements of the taxation system of the Gaza Strip: Israel is responsible for setting the VAT and customs rates on goods intended for consumption in the Gaza Strip, collecting these taxes for the Palestinian Authority, and transferring the tax monies to the Palestinian Authority each month. These powers enable Israel to punish the Palestinian Authority by stopping the transfer of the tax revenues to the Palestinian Authority, which impairs the PA's ability to carry out basic functions of government such as paying salaries and providing humanitarian assistance.

6. Israel also controls the granting of exemptions from customs and VAT to non-profit humanitarian-aid organizations for products and equipment donated to them from abroad. This power is extremely significant: if not granted the exemption, an organization would have to pay the taxes that the importer would have to pay when the goods enter the Gaza Strip at one of the crossing points controlled by Israel.

Israel 's obligations toward residents of the Gaza Strip

Despite Israel 's extensive control over the Gaza Strip, in its decision on the disengagement plan, the government stated that implementation of the plan would "invalidate the claims against Israel regarding its responsibility for the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip." In response to several petitions filed in the High Court of Justice following implementation of the disengagement plan, the State Attorney's Office has argued that, with the termination of the military government in the Gaza Strip, Israel has no obligation whatsoever under international law toward residents of Gaza, who should now direct all their claim s and request s to the Palestinian Authority. Implicit in this claim is that Israel 's control over the lives of Palestinians living in the Gaza Strip, described above, exists in a normative vacuum in which Israel is not responsible for its acts and their consequences. As we shall see below, the argument is baseless, both under international humanitarian law and under international human rights law .

One source of the obligations imposed on Israel toward residents of the Gaza Strip are the laws of occupation, which are incorporated in the Hague Convention of 1907 and the Fourth Geneva Convention, of 1949. These laws impose general responsibility on the occupying state for the safety and welfare of civilians living in the occupied territory. The laws of occupation apply if a state has "effective control" over the territory in question. The High Court has held contrary to Israel 's claim, stating that the creation and continuation of an occupation does not depend on the existence of an institution administering the lives of the local population, but only on the extent of its military control in the area. Furthermore, for a certain area to be considered occupied, permanent army presence does not have to exist throughout the area. Leading experts in humanitarian law maintain that effective control can also exist when the army controls key points in a particular area, reflecting its power over the entire area and preventing an alternative central government from formulating and carrying out its powers. The broad scope of Israeli control in the Gaza Strip, which exists despite the lack of a physical presence of IDF soldiers in the territory, creates a reasonable basis for the assumption that this control amounts to "effective control," s uch that the laws of occupation continue to apply .

Even if Israel 's control in the Gaza Strip does not amount to "effective control" and the territory is not considered occupied, Israel still bears certain responsibilit ies under international humanitarian law. IHL is not limited to protecting civilians living under occupation, but includes provisions intended to protect civilians during an armed conflict, regardless of the status of the territory in which they live. Given that Israel contends that an armed conflict exists between it and the Palestinian organizations fighting against it, which has continued even after the disengagement, such provisions apply. These provisions are found, for example, in the Fourth Geneva Convention, pursuant to which Israel must protect the wounded, sick, children under age fifteen, and pregnant women, enable the free passage of medicines and essential foodstuffs, enable medical teams to provide assistance, and refrain from imposing collective punishment .

Another legal source for Israel 's responsibility towards the residents of the Gaza Strip is derived from international human rights law. The founding instrument of this branch of law is the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, of 1948. Its principal provisions have been enshrined over the years in six international conventions that have been adopted by the United Nations and ratified by Israel . These conventions recognize the right of every person to freedom of movement, to work, to an adequate standard of living, to education, to adequate health care, and to family life. Each party to the conventions undertakes to carry out the provisions not only inside its own sovereign territory, but also as regards persons under its control .

According to the UN Human Rights Committee, which is composed of independent experts from around the world, the main question in determining a state's responsibility relating to a certain act is not whether the act was carried out in the state's sovereign territory, but the nature of the relations between the individual harmed and the state. In other words, the responsibility of a state to respect the human rights of a particular population is a function of the state's control over the population, and not necessarily the status of the territory in which the population lives. This conclusion is also inevitable in light of the universal principle that, in the language of Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, "All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights ."

Thus, Israel cannot evade its legal responsibility to respect the human rights of residents of the Gaza Strip in those areas of life which Israel controls . Even after the disengagement, Israel continues to bear legal responsibility for the consequences of its act ions and omissions concerning residents of the Gaza Strip . This responsibility is unrelated to the question of whether Israel continues to be the occupier of the Gaza Strip .

http://www.btselem.org/English/Special/Gaza_Status.asp
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. it all comes down to a single sentence.....
Edited on Wed Aug-23-06 01:56 PM by pelsar
Furthermore, t he PA's ability to export goods via Rafah Crossing is limited, given that most of the exports are intended for Israel or are shipped abroad via Israeli ports
______

the palestenains have simply not opened up other markets either to egypt or via egypt. There are perfectly good ports in Egypt for shipping to Europe or the arab states.

Most of their problems, financial, development, employment could all be solved if they expanded their connection to Egypt and to the arab world. By not doing so, by keeping their dependancy on israel, they're simply keeping themselves as "occupied". Its a losing strategy for both israel and the palestenians

But its up to them, and only them.(destroying the greenhouses with their 4,000 jobs and existing market in europe was not a good idea)

the sooner they start with it, the better off everyone will be

israel in 48 had similar problems...it had only a single export border, but they made the best of it
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-22-06 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
6. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
maalak Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-22-06 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. thanks for clearing that up!

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sabbat hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. any proof
Edited on Wed Aug-23-06 10:02 AM by sabbat hunter
do you have any proof whatsoever of your accusation that israel wants to kill all the arabs on the land from egypt to turkey? that is a HUGE accusation.

the UN generally sides AGAINST israel not with it.

i am a smart liberal and i know nothing of the sort of accusations that you are making.


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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. mistake n/t
Edited on Wed Aug-23-06 01:53 PM by pelsar
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msmcghee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. Hopefully, everyone understands that the above post . .
Edited on Wed Aug-23-06 06:27 PM by msmcghee
. . (#7) was meant to be sarcastic. I probably should have used the <sarcasm> icon.

I need to remember that not everyone here lives in the USA and may be used to a different flavor of irony than the type I so easily fall into here.

Sorry for any confusion.
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