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Israel's warplanes. Is it just me...?

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Ready4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:12 PM
Original message
Israel's warplanes. Is it just me...?
Is it just me, or is there a dearth of any mention of what kind of warplanes Israel is using? The news usually reports with breathless techno excitement as much information as they can get in that regard. Even to the point of guessing when they have no facts, but getting Tom Clancy like "experts" to make estimates.

For most other wars we practically have bubble gum cards about the planes being used. Why have I not seen a single type specificied as being used by Israel?
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. Because they're American designs.
And the less said about that, the better.

By the way, Arab news mentions US warplanes and US missiles left and right night and day.
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Ready4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. Precisely what I'm wondering.
In Israels past conflicts there's been all sorts of mention of the prowess of their air force, of the technological capabilities of their mostly US built equipment, with mentions of how, with their own upgrades and modifications, their equipment might be BETTER than standard US stuff.

Or earlier, when they had mostly French equipment, the IAF was almost synominous with the Mirage fighter.

But in this conflict? Nadda. I started making a real effort over the last few days, and I've yet to hear a single aircraft type. I can seek out the information, sure. Heck, they've got some cool jets. I'm sure they'd make exciting footage.

Nope. Nothing. From ANY station. Not radio. Not TV or cable news.

I beginning to wonder how much silence costs?

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JackNewtown Donating Member (703 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. Then we wonder why they hate us
Edited on Fri Aug-04-06 12:20 AM by JackNewtown
Does any mainstream elected official dare mention the link between sponsorship of Israeli actions, including brutal repression and aggression against the Palestinians, and the cost in terms of world opinion and, yes, national security? This is the elephant in the room in the debate on the war on terror...
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. They get their jets from the USA
...via the 5 billion we give them every year. :wtf:
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. And they got their nukes from France - and the reason we are helping them:
This paper is a history of the Israeli nuclear weapons program drawn from a review of unclassified sources. Israel began its search for nuclear weapons at the inception of the state in 1948. As payment for Israeli participation in the Suez Crisis of 1956, France provided nuclear expertise and constructed a reactor complex for Israel at Dimona capable of large-scale plutonium production and reprocessing. The United States discovered the facility by 1958 and it was a subject of continual discussions between American presidents and Israeli prime ministers. Israel used delay and deception to at first keep the United States at bay, and later used the nuclear option as a bargaining chip for a consistent American conventional arms supply. After French disengagement in the early 1960s, Israel progressed on its own, including through several covert operations, to project completion. Before the 1967 Six-Day War, they felt their nuclear facility threatened and reportedly assembled several nuclear devices. By the 1973 Yom Kippur War Israel had a number of sophisticated nuclear bombs, deployed them, and considered using them.

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/cpc-pubs/farr.htm
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BrotherBuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Israel didn't have deployable nuclear weapons in 1973...
heck, they didn't even have a tested bomb until 1978. The story of the deployment of them during the Yom Kipper War in Oct 1973 was a well crafted but necessary ruse, and the US military knew of this deception.
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JackNewtown Donating Member (703 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. How could they test a bomb they don't have?
;)
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JackNewtown Donating Member (703 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #6
19. Israel wouldn't need to use "delay and deception" today
AIPAC makes life so much easier for Tel Aviv.
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
3. See here for a TON more info:
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/cpc-pubs/farr.htm

Discusses their planes, nukes, plans to attack Iran if they get close to building nukes, etc and so on (and not bashing Israel here, it is a Military paper looking at things in a level light without the biases myself and others have).

VERY educational and informative!
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ShockediSay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. international peacekeeping force should be able to shoot the flying
mothers of death and destruction out of the sky

and that includes Hezballs rockets

AND there should also be a peacekeeping force for the Palestinian borders
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maalak Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. hopefully it wouldn't be the same peacekeeping force...

that was supposed to disarm Hezbollah and restore control of southern Lebanon to the Lebanese government as was agreed to when Israel withdrew so many years ago...

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Pepper32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. From that site:
Estimates of the Israeli Nuclear Arsenal




:wow:

Anyway, thanks for the link!
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izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
4. I heard them say on TV I think F 14 or 15 something like that.
I do not recall them saying they were Am. but we know that they are. The world also knows.
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eviltwin2525 Donating Member (269 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. F-15 is their mainstay; French Mirage also numerous
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everythingsxen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
5. From the IAF's website:
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
9. F-16s some 14s and 15s
And how about the WP they are dropping on "orchards and groves"?

Yeah, right.
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
14. New immigrant: F22 stealth bomber?
World's most advanced fighter jet currently only in US hands. After House of Representatives lifts ban on its sale, security establishment assesses jet may be offered to Israel

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3285781,00.ht...

<snip>

"The United States may supply Israel with the most advanced stealth fighter jet in the world the F22 Raptor considering the war in Lebanon and the Iranian threat, the Israeli security establishment has assessed.

The US has not yet exported the F22 to any of its allies. Recently, however, the House of Representatives lifted its nine year ban on the sale of the advanced jet outside the United States. No real contacts have yet been made on the matter, but the lifting of the ban on its sale has paved the way for such a deal.

US officials have apparently hinted to Israel lately that as part of American efforts in the international war on the axis of evil, the US would offer Israel to buy the stealth fighter."

<snip>

"The Israeli Air Force enthusiastically welcomed reports that the stealth jet could come to Israel. The F22 Raptor is the most advanced warplane in the world and is almost undetectable to radar systems. The planes stealth is achieved through the combination of its shape, color, composite materials, and various installed systems.

The single-seater plane is armed mainly with air-to-air missiles, but also with the smart missiles used by the Israeli Air Force."







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Ready4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. That's an interesting thought.
I was thinking someone didn't want the US public to connect Israels (growingly) unpopular actions with US equipment.

But it could be even worse if Israel is making use of the USA's top fighter, before it was well known that they even had them. A fighter that very few AMERICAN units are equipped with yet.

While the F-22 is really meant fo CAP, I guess if your use of the air space is unopposed there's no reason to not use it in the mud.
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JackNewtown Donating Member (703 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #14
22. "House..lifted its nine year ban on the sale of the advanced jet..."
Any wild guesses on why the House did it? Any bets on whether anyone other than Israel will get the F-22 anytime soon?
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JackNewtown Donating Member (703 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
17. Google news search
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=Israel%20F-16&sa=N&...

I quickly looked through the first two pages and no major, mainstream US media outlet has mentioned the obvious.
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JackNewtown Donating Member (703 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
18. Here is an actual song written by a bomb delivered from a F-16
Born down in a dead mans disputed territory to be determined through negotiations that aren't taking place
The first kick I gave was when I hit the ground
They end up like a dog thats been beat too much
Till they spend half their life just covering up their anti-Semitism and aggression

Born in the u.s.a., I was born in the u.s.a.
I was born in the u.s.a., born in the u.s.a.

Got in a little hometown jam
So they put my "azz" in a F-16
Sent me off to a foreign disputed territory whose final status is subject to non-existent negotiations
To go and kill the brown man

Born in the u.s..a....

Come back home to the ExxonMobil refinery
Common decent American man said son if it was up to me
Went down to see my AIPAC man
He said son, don't you understand Israel is the only democracy in the ME aside from Iraq, Lebanon, and the disputed territories

I had a brother at Qana
Fighting off the hezbollah
They're still there, hes all gone along with 130 civilians

He had a woman he loved in the Jenin refugee camp
I got a picture of her and her mother dying in his arms now

Down in the shadow of PNAC's office
Out by the gas fires of the ExxonMobil refinery
Im ten years burning down the road
Nowhere to run aint got nowhere to go

Born in the u.s.a., I was born in the u.s.a.
Born in the u.s.a., Im a long gone bomb in the u.s.a.
Born in the u.s.a., born in the u.s.a.
Born in the u.s.a., Im a cool rocking bomb in the u.s.a.
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JackNewtown Donating Member (703 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
21. Aside from the US, does anyone have more F-16's than Israel? nt
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. not that i know of n/t
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
23. The IAF...
Edited on Fri Aug-04-06 12:46 AM by pelsar
its planes are no secret:
F16s upraded with israeli electronics

F-15s same

those are the front line fighters;

some upgraded F4s (maybe)

kfir, skyhawks, mirages etc are old and no longer in use


plenty of unmanned vehicles flying around

airborne radar

Heliocopters:
huey, blackhawks, Apaches, cobras.....
_______

the IAF keeps info quiet during wars....nothing special going on.
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JackNewtown Donating Member (703 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. Apparently they are a secret to the US media
Edited on Fri Aug-04-06 01:20 AM by JackNewtown
Nothing special going on? We have had Katusha rockets analyzed often, with Anderson Cooper even getting a hold of one to demonstrate to the viewers what it is and its capabilities. It is normal in war to tell the viewers a bit about the military capabilities of each combatant. This was done in the Iraq war. Yet, how often do you hear of an analysis of the mighty Israeli military on the media?

F-16's, F-15's, F-4's, hueys, blackhawks, apaches, and cobras. That is everything the Israeli air force has--and they are all American weapons... Why do they hate us?
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 03:56 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. do some research...
just because its not handed to you on a silver platter doesnt mean the info is not there.....(part of the "i want it now without effort generation?)
the IAF has been reported about in Janes, multiple military magazines and websites
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JackNewtown Donating Member (703 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. I was referring to the mainstream US media
Edited on Fri Aug-04-06 03:13 PM by JackNewtown
You know, the media that 99% of the public gets its information from. It is odd that we get a full analysis of every Hezbollah rocket, how it works, where it is from, its name, etc. yet how often does the corporate media in the US mention the identity of "Israeli aircraft"? Anderson Cooper can get a hold of a Katusha, analyze it, but he can't mention the identity of "Israeli aircraft"?

I know what Israel's air force has. When there was talk about Syria and Israel going to war I "did some research" online. It is common knowledge that Israel's military is mostly American made, but I was surprised to learn that its entire air force is US made. I hope few people in the foreign media find this out. They always mention F-16's but if the truth that the IAF is totally American comes out it will only add more fuel to the fire..

The media censorship of this important fact is not surprising. If the public knew the real US role in this conflict, as well as the fact that Israel's air force is entirely American made, that would lead to some dangerous thoughtcrimes among the population and may cause some to ask dangerous questions. It is best to keep the people ignorant and only tell them what they "should know"...
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