Iran’s Leader, Ahmadinejad, Calls on Nations to “Remove Israel”

[ECH1969]

At a rally in Teheran, commemorating the 27th anniversary of the revolution that created the Islamic republic, Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad reiterated his call for Israel’s destruction.

We ask the West to remove what they created sixty years ago, and if they do not listen to our recommendations, then the Palestinian nation and other nations will eventually do this for them," Ahmadinejad said.

"Remove Israel before it is too late and save yourself from the fury of regional nations," proclaimed Ahamdinejad to a crowd of hundreds of thousands of Iranians, according to state media.

Once again, the Iranian president called the Holocaust “a fairy tale” and accused European nations of being held hostage by “Zionists” in Israel.

http://www.arutzsheva.net/news.php3?id=98390

[rockymountaindem]

1. "The Palestinian nation and other nations will... do this for them"

Yeah, they've been so successful at that in the past.

:sarcasm:

[Bluzmann57]

2. This guy sounds like a genuine pschyco

But that is still no reason for the USA to attack Iran. Israel hhas proven many times that they can take care of themselves. Iran may be treading down a dangerous path with this loony tune in charge.

[global1]

4. Could It Be That Ahmadinejad Is A Neocon Plant To Stir Up The....

emotions and allow Israel to pre-emptively hit Iran and draw the U.S. into the conflict without * having to go back to Congress?

Just a thought?

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lsulib]

31. Thats insane

How could he be a plant when he was one of the origianl hostage takers in the 70's

[TheWraith]

120. I take it you don't realize that was debunked?

Some organization--State department?--went back over the records and determined that Ahmadwhatsit wasn't the same guy that some people claimed he was.

[Behind the Aegis]

32. Puke!

This site proudly hosts a book about the Zionists taking over the world. :eyes:

[bloom]

37. When you post stuff that links to LittleGreenFootballs

How can you complain?


http://www.drmenlo.com/lgfquiz /


From the site of the quiz:

about this quiz
I was inspired to build this quiz when I noticed that comments on Littlegreenfootballs.com (a popular warblog) tended to be indistinguishable in tone and content from the writings of Adolf Hitler, Heinrich Himmler, and the other architects of the "final solution."

Always indistinguishable? Well, maybe not - but close enough and often enough to be pretty disturbing. Yes, the quotes I've used here are all "cherry-picked" - from LGF and the Nazis both - but since the webmaster patrols LGF pretty thoroughly it's fair to say that his site is as defined by what he allows (e.g., calls to "sterilize" the "subhuman" Palestinians) as it is by what he doesn't (e.g., criticisms of Israel or George W).

[Behind the Aegis]

39. I didn't post anything from LGF.

I posted a cartoon from a right-leaning site about Iran's Holocaust contest. They were commenting on his insane contest. The post I replied to has a book that reads like "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion."

Besides, the cartoon was not insulting all Iranians, but the book at the other site claims all Zionists run the world. These concepts are not interchangeable!

On edit: I missed the word "linked."

[Scurrilous]

45. "When you post stuff ...

...that links to LittleGreenFootballs."

Cox & Forkum (whose cartoon you posted here at DU) links to LGF. They also draw cartoons for LGF articles. LGF, as LA Magazine pointed out, is nothing more than 'constitutionally protected hate speech.'

[Behind the Aegis]

47. Good catch.

I missed that word. So you are equating my posting of cartoon, which happens to be from a rw site, but was not offensive to an entire group, to posting to a link, which implicates an entire group with a world domination conspiracy?

Talk about 'apples and oranges.'

[bloom]

57. Does the site

you complained about host the book or a link to the book?

Either way - I don't think it's all that different. The site that linked to LGF seemed to share their sentiments - even if someone didn't make a quiz about them.


One site seems to hate Jews (or at least Zionists) - the other one expresses hate for Muslims (or at least Palestinians).

What is the big difference?

[Behind the Aegis]

60. Hosts

You can buy the book from that site. The author is a known anti-Semite.

You are missing the point completely. The post I did was about the cartoon response to the Iranian contest. I even stated that I didn't agree with much of anything else from that site. The cartoon addressed that ONE issue. Their motivations for creating that could have been Islamaphobic or it could have been at the disgust of the contest itself. However, the link I am taking issue with proudly espouses anti-Semitic thoughts and theories. To me, I question the validity of a production that so proudly displays anti-Semitism. How many 'code words' are being used/ I agree there is an attempt by the US to dominate 'the stars;' however, I do not think it is because of the Jews running the world and the US is just their puppet.

[Whoa_Nelly]

46. Perhaps if I had used different link, then the bashing wouldn't

interfere with rational thinking process.

Here's a link that is all text and explains about this documentary:

http://nuclearfree.lynx.co.nz/videogame.htm

<snip>
Arsenal of Hypocrisy... features GN Coordinator Bruce Gagnon, Noam Chomsky and Apollo 14 astronaut Edgar Mitchell talking about the dangers of moving the arms race into space. The one-hour production features archival footage, Pentagon documents, and clearly outlines the U.S. plan to "control and dominate" space and the Earth below. The video spells out the dangers of the Bush "Nuclear Systems Initiative" that will expand the use of nuclear power in space by building Project Prometheus -- the nuclear rocket.

Mitchell, the 6th man to walk on the moon, warns that a war in space would create massive bits of space junk that would create a mine field surrounding the Earth making it virtually impossible to launch anything into the heavens. Mitchell calls space a fragile environment that must be protected.

Noam Chomsky talks about how the U.S. intends to use space technology to control the Earth and reminds the viewer that the U.S. refuses to negotiate a global ban on weapons in space. He also speaks about the role of the media in suppressing this important issue.

[Wind Dancer]

38. I've seen that documentary twice now.

It is one of the scariest, most informative documentaries I've ever seen. I have had nightmares since watching it but it explains in great detail what is happening on a global level.

Until you have seen it, words can't adequately describe the horror of its contents.

[Whoa_Nelly]

43. Maybe no bashing if I had used a different link re: Arsenal of Hypocrisy

Easy to bash and discount someone's post when you don't like the link. Much more difficult to get past bias and attitude to see what I was really posting about.

Thanks for the bashing, and appreciative thanks to FrustratedDemInNC for sharing what I also found in this documentary to be the most revealing and frightening overview of what BushCo/PNAC is really planning and currently implementing.

Here's a link that is all text and explains about this documentary:

http://nuclearfree.lynx.co.nz/videogame.htm

<snip>
Arsenal of Hypocrisy... features GN Coordinator Bruce Gagnon, Noam Chomsky and Apollo 14 astronaut Edgar Mitchell talking about the dangers of moving the arms race into space. The one-hour production features archival footage, Pentagon documents, and clearly outlines the U.S. plan to "control and dominate" space and the Earth below. The video spells out the dangers of the Bush "Nuclear Systems Initiative" that will expand the use of nuclear power in space by building Project Prometheus -- the nuclear rocket.

Mitchell, the 6th man to walk on the moon, warns that a war in space would create massive bits of space junk that would create a mine field surrounding the Earth making it virtually impossible to launch anything into the heavens. Mitchell calls space a fragile environment that must be protected.

Noam Chomsky talks about how the U.S. intends to use space technology to control the Earth and reminds the viewer that the U.S. refuses to negotiate a global ban on weapons in space. He also speaks about the role of the media in suppressing this important issue.

[Wind Dancer]

48. The bashing of your post is a strawman, Whoa_Nelly.

"Arsenal of Hypocrisy" is a documentary based on facts and has nothing to do with anti-semitism. The accusation directed your way is wrong plus it misses the point entirely.

I suggest attackers watch this film and then come back and debate the contents.

More facts from
Women's International League for Peace and Freedom:

The very heavens are at risk:
As the world’s one sole super power seeks “full spectrum dominance” of land, sea, air and space.

Keep war out of space:
September 25 to October 2 the U.S. is deploying land based interceptors as the first step in “missile defense” – an untested, unproven “missile shield” from behind which the Pentagon claims pre-emptive wars can be waged.

This year, for the first time, weapons in space and nuclear powered rockets are in the U.S. budget submitted to Congress.

Stop plans to wage war in space!!! End dreams of space colonization by the U.S. military-industrial complex.Space belongs to all:

Support the 1967 UN Space Treaty, (summary) and promote an expanded version banning all weapons in space. Support multi-lateral, internationally monitored space exploration and resource sharing.

http://www.wilpf.int.ch/events/space4peace.html

Dennis Kucinich has been active in trying to stop the U.S. control of space ownership. I would hardly call him anti-semitic..

[Whoa_Nelly]

51. Thanks again, FDINC

I agree re: straw man.

The point of my post was entirely missed by those who could only use that weak defense for discounting and entirely missing the relevance of BushCo/PNAC in regard to this documentary.

[Colorado Blue]

52. Oy vai.

Barf, already.

[Colorado Blue]

53. Yeah sure. He works for Cheney. Oh wait! Maybe - maybe

he is an Israeli agent.

That's it! He is A JEW.

Gimme a break please.

[Jim Sagle]

82. Mooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Spinoza]

99. Interesting.

[Violet_Crumble]

105. The poster you replied to said nothing like that at all...

n/t

[barb162]

74. He won the election for the prez spot,, so I doubt he's a plant

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Tehran's ultra-conservative mayor, won a run-off vote in elections in June 2005, defeating his rival, the former president Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani, to become Iran's first non-cleric president for 24 years.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/country_profiles/790877.stm

[Coastie for Truth]

97. Actually

he is a Sephardic Rebbe Gadolah - a Rosh Yeshiva and he specializes in Brises. And he is a direct descendant of Ahasuerus and Esther.

:sarcasm:

[dubya_dubya_III]

42. Liberty vs Tyranny

The threat that exists within every mighty socialist organization embodying a dogmatic set of notions in this world lies in the religious fervor and intolerance with which, once established politically and militarily, and fanatically convinced of its own right, it intolerantly imposes its now-fascist will against all others.

Liberalism alone is inherently free of this subversive tendency toward the tyranny of fascism.

What we are seeing in the Muslim World is a phenomenon given impetus by the bald faced tyranny of our own Judeo-Christian Fascist (specifically bloodthirsty Episcopal Fascist) Jerusalem Policy now promoting, igniting, establishing, hardening and inciting complementary Islamic Fascism throughout the planet.

No matter how one looks at it, it is clearly aimed toward the promotion and engineering of a Second Holocaust of "Armageddon" upon Israel and an ensuing monumental conflagration between all the great powers of this planet.

Let us all pray that Liberty, Justice and true faith in That Which Is Love Itself will triumph over evil, selfish intolerance, mindless criminal dogmatism and racial hatred.

Establish a tripartite, independent Holy City of Jerusalem, it's quite simply that easy to put a final end to all this criminal bloodthirsty nonsense for all time!

[OKNancy]

3. Statement of Senator Russ Feingold

Congressional Record Statement of Senator Russ Feingold
On Iran’s Efforts to Obtain Nuclear Weapons and the Need for Concerted International Action

January 31, 2006

Mr. FEINGOLD

Mr. President, as a known sponsor of international terrorism, and in light of the president of Iran’s recent apocalyptic statements calling for the destruction of Israel, Iran must not be allowed to develop nuclear weapons. The international community must respond quickly and decisively to Iran’s gross disregard of international treaties and obligations and to its concerted and malicious efforts to develop the capability to create nuclear weapons.

The international community must take concerted and decisive action to prevent Iran from furthering its nuclear research and technology development. In its forthcoming meeting on February 2, 2006, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) Board of Governors should heed the calls by Russia, China, the European Union, and the United States to reaffirm its findings that Iran has blatantly violated its international obligations, recognize the grave nature of Iran’s recent actions, and refer Iran to the United Nations Security Council. The Security Council should then speak with one voice to condemn Iran’s actions and send a clear signal that continued defiance of the international community will not be tolerated.

It is essential that the Security Council approve specific actions to prevent the furthering of Iran’s nuclear capabilities. The Security Council specifically, and the international community generally, must recognize the potentially devastating link between the violent and defiant rhetoric of Iran’s president and his regime’s determined effort to undermine approved and transparent methods of developing civilian nuclear technology for energy use.

Congress can also take steps to help stop or slow Iran’s acquisition of nuclear and other WMD-related technology, including adding teeth to export control legislation such as the Iran and Syria Nonproliferation Act. The Iran Nonproliferation Enhancement Act (S.1976) that Senator Kyl and I introduced late last year would do just that. It would toughen the ISNA by requiring rather than merely authorizing sanctions on proliferators, extending sanctions to the parent companies, and increasing the types of sanctions that apply to proliferators. By adopting this legislation, we would be sending a crystal clear message to would-be proliferators: if you choose to assist Iran in developing nuclear or other WMD-related capabilities, you are also choosing to forgo doing business with the United States.

History teaches us that we cannot ignore the stated intent of those who seek to destroy nations. A nuclear-armed Iran would pose a grave threat to the region, to Israel, and to the entire international community. A concerted international effort is needed to prevent Iran from procuring the technology and materiel needed to develop a nuclear weapon. This effort must begin now, and it must be comprehensive.


http://feingold.senate.gov/~feingold/statements/06/01/2006131CR.html

[global1]

5. After Reading This It Makes My Theory Above More Plausible....

that Ahmadinejad is a Neocon plant. Look - it drew Feingold into this and he will be on record as being for taking out Iran.

[Karenina]

40. I agree.

EVERY Iranian ex-pat I've engaged on the subject, neighbors, cab drivers, shop owners has expressed shock that this loon "won" the "election" and think he's a plant.

[Spinoza]

100. Your right. Stupid fucking Iranian Mullahs

can't even stop the U.S. from planting a leader in Iran of our choosing. Whats with those guys? Why can't the Mullahs do something about our CIA plant? If the Iranian expats know the truth, surely the Mullahs must also. What gives?

[LynnTheDem]

6. Iran has not "disregard"ed any treaty or law.

So what exactly is Feingold talking about?

[MrPrax]

10. Same old racism...

Those people just can't handle the responsibility of 'nukes' like Israel or the US...

So Feingold, inspite of knowing about the Iraq debacle, really doesn't have any courage and is more than willing to drink the kool-aid regardless.

How reliable are the translators for the Israel News Service anyway...?

[LynnTheDem]

12. WTF...I don't get this shit, I really don't.

How come we know the facts, and Feingold (and so many other politicians) don't know???

Maybe it's past time to do a FULL housecleaning. Get in people who can read.

[MrPrax]

14. It makes NO sense...

No sane American politician should be pushing for this in anyway.

The obvious position here is that the US should de-escalate the situation and NEGOTIATE with Iran and settle it like they did with Pakistan, North Korea, India, etc etc.

Israel is 'hotboxed' in all this and has NO choice but to escalate--their long term position and the position of the Kingdoms is getting tenuous. The US continued occupation in Iraq is NOT going away and the politics have shifted quite a bit. The Hamas election and the various players reactions to it have YET to be finalized.

Feingold is nuts to be a part of this deadly little ballet that is going on...

[LynnTheDem]

17. It really does not make sense.

Feingold has to know Iran hasn't violated any treaties or laws, he has to know Iran is a good decade away from any nukes IF they want nukes and IF they work 24/7 full out and IF nothing goes wrong during the entire time.

So WTF??!

I really don't get it.

Like you said, ANYONE with common bloody sense would know ya catch more flies with HONEY; stop threatening nations and their peoples, stop invading and occupying nations, stop killing nations' children, and stop "demanding". Start negotiating, adult to adult.

But then the US war machine only gets wealthy from blood, not from honey.

[fujiyama]

92. Feingold's comments

say nothing about threats or invasions.

It simply stated that he wanted to step up penalties for those companies that do proliferate nuclear technology to Iran. In fact, such controls should have been in place many years ago. The lack of export controls and inaction by the West led to the Khan nuclear 'bazaar' in the first place.

Personally I feel the cat is out of the bag regarding nuke technology. The West decided to look the other way when Pakistan started proliferating this stuff a while back.

[Coastie for Truth]

61. How reliable are the translators for the Israel News Service anyway...?

More reliable then the CIA, NSA, or FBI translators.

Many of them are native Farsi speakers. Here, out FBI doesn't hire native Farsi speakers. :shrug:

[Violet_Crumble]

107. I didn't realise you could speak Farsi, Coastie!

I mean, you must, or else how would you know how reliable a translation is?


Violet...

[Spinoza]

101. "How reliable are the translators

for the Israel News Service anyway...?"

Excellent point. I don't trust them. They may be.....Zionists.

[centristo]

116. is it about racism?

Did you read the original post? What evidence do you require to convince you that the leadership of Iran is dangerous?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

8. Proof he's running.

Posturing.

He WAS my #1 guy.

Must reevaluate.

[OKNancy]

16. I think it is proof that there is no

hard and fast Democratic position on Iran. When perhaps our most liberal Senator says this, then we have to realize that it's all a big mess and is just now being hashed out. In fact, I can't think of one Democratic politician that has not said Iran is a threat. Also liberal commentators say it as well ( Amy Sullivan - http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=11092 )

Just because Feingold, Dean, Kerry, Clark and others have said Iran is a threat does not mean they advocate invasion or even bombing.

I know from reading Clark, that he wants a diplomatic solution ( working with Russia , etc). He has said for four or five years that Iran was where we needed to focus, not Iraq and that Bush/neocons have made a big mess of things ( lol - understatement ).

Also, I wouldn't push Feingold out of you thoughts for this...there is more to do on this issue just yet.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

30. A little hyperbole, I'm afraid.

I'm still leaning Feingold but I'd like to see a little more carrot and a little less stick.

Much like this board, aggression begets aggression and kindness begets kindness. Not hard to figure out.

[DerBeppo]

50. one big reason...

is the fear of being labeled as a flip flopper since in the lead up to the iraq war, many were foolishly warning about the "real" threat of iran next door. jokes, commentaries and reports came by the dozens on the issue that * was missing the boat on the real threat while focusing on his personal vendetta.

why do you think the rush clones were constantly asking "well if the war with iraq is so wrong, would you support military action in iran or north korea?" they knew that this would be on the horizon and all those on the left who were reaching out for anything and anyone that opposed the iraq occupation would end up looking weak when iran's time came. talk about being painted into a corner.

[CJCRANE]

65. AFAIK

Clark saw the priorities as Al-Qaeda, North Korea, Iran, Iraq, in that order.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[...of J.Temperance]

28. No...your post is proof of something else...but nothing about Feingold n/t

[dailykoff]

13. He's playing right into their hands, just like Ahmadinejad.

Boy are we screwed.

[lovuian]

7. "Bring it On" is what Iran is saying...

this does not bode well for US...

[dubya_dubya_III]

58. The cowardly, criminal demolition of Iran from the edge of outer space

to defend our outright theft of Jerusalem, will be well underway before the mid-terms! I mean since supporting the families of Palestinian Freedom Fighters (most popular Baathist policy ever!) got Iraq smashed like a bug, what's to stop Dubya from murdering millions more to support that Judeo-Christian Fascist robbery of the Muslim world?

There really needs to be something done about this Iranian Shickelgruber though, I mean there are so many good valid arguments why must this uneducated moron be fabricating such nonsense??

[PDJane]

9. Kind of hard to do

When you're outgunned.

However, there is a limit to how much of the Palestinian's land and resources Israel can take before starting a firestorm. I personally think the wall is too far, especially since it's enclosing all the arable land and water resources that Israel covets.

Undoing the diaspora was a bad idea.

If you believe that Israel had the right to "ancestral lands", do you also believe that, at some point, the First Nations people should kick you and I out and reclaim their home ranges?

[Jim Sagle]

19. Israel just vacated a big chunk of land. Do try to keep up.

[BeyondGeography]

29. Was that before or after they started to build a Museum of Tolerance

on Muslim graves?

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/custom/tourism/orl-museum1206feb12,0,7613966.story?coll=orl-business-headlines-tourism

[Colorado Blue]

54. Right. The Museum was going on top of a PARKING LOT.

When graves were discovered UNDER the parking lot, construction halted.

SO?

Jerusalem is an ancient city, layer upon layer of civilization built one on top of the other. It's hard to build anything without encountering something of the past.

And you might want to look a little into the history of this parcel of land. A variance was granted, in the 19th century, by the Sharia court. Maybe you should talk to the people who built the parking lot.

Apparently it wasn't sacred then. Now, it's a political hot potato so it's sacred?

So please, learn a little before firing off the broadsides.

[BeyondGeography]

67. So the Muslims are upset about nothing again

Hey, when we covered your dead with a parking lot, you said nothing. What's the big deal now that we want to memorialize OUR dead?

Your explanation should calm them down.

[Behind the Aegis]

69. You got it partly correct.

I have found nothing on who built the parking lot, but they certainly had no problem when Muslims built a park, Hotel, and a school on the same plot of land we are now discussing. So they question is, why was it OK for them?

[BeyondGeography]

75. From the article:

<Critics of the project say it never would have been allowed at its current location if the cemetery were Jewish.>

Even if you disagree with that assertion, it's easy to see how it has traction among Palestinians. Further, it should be easy to understand how a secular project such as a park or a hotel arouses comparatively little or no reaction as opposed to the politically-charged notion that the Israelis should be building monuments to tolerance on land that many Muslims believe, rightly or wrongly, was stolen from them, and which requires the removal of dead Muslims for its construction.

[barb162]

76. The Muslims built a hotel on part of the cemetery in the 1920s

[Violet_Crumble]

109. The link you gave in another thread didn't say it was THAT cemetary...

Even if it was, can you not see any difference between the owners of that land doing something, and those who have forcibly stolen that land doing it? And using the excuse of 'they did it too!!!!' doesn't make it okay to to it, especially when the supposed precedent is from the 1920's and we're now living in the 21st century. Lots of things were done back then that would not be at all acceptable now...

Violet...

[Violet_Crumble]

108. That's not what you said about ex-synagogues in Gaza

I can go dig up the thread, but you claimed then that it was morally wrong that some ex-synagogues were trashed after the departure of the settlers, due to the fact that they'd been a place of worship and even if rabbis had done the decommissioning thing, it showed a disrespect to Judaism. You also complained about the bodies of settlers being dug up and moved...

So what's the difference between then and now? Because it appears that there's some inconsistency in a stance like that...

Violet...

[Coastie for Truth]

62. It was a parking lot when I was in Jerusalem in August 1980.

BTW - when I was there in 8/80, they had discovered a Crusader grave across from the Super Sol super market on Rehov Dakar - so they did a nice landscaping and put a decorative fence around it.

[PDJane]

87. Yes, they did.

And right after they vacated one chunk of land, they simply moved over and took another chunk of land.

Don't forget that the wall is built on Palestinian land, too........not on Israel's land. Coincidentally, of course, it encompasses Palestinian famland and water sources.

[Jim Sagle]

89. If they want the land back, the Palestinian side can crack down on suicide

bombers.

[Violet_Crumble]

106. Put the magnifying glass down - Gaza's tiny...

n/t

[Spankydem]

27. "Undoing the diaspora was a bad idea."

Really ?? And you say this on what perspective ?

:eyes:

[Chi-Town Exile]

66. What's that sound?

Wonder why no one answered your questions, folks? :shrug:

Their silence speaks volumes.

[Spankydem]

86. That statement caught my attention....

its seems awfully similar to what Ahmadinejad has been saying.

Very freightening.

[Coastie for Truth]

96. Didn't I see you

when you used (wasted) my ACLU dues to try to March on Dempster Rd

[Violet_Crumble]

104. It usually means a stupid question is being rightfully ignored...

[megatherium]

33. Can you fault the Israelis for believing that the Diaspora was

a bad idea -- since within living memory the most technically advanced nation in Europe systematically killed one-third of the Jews of the Diaspora?

[Colorado Blue]

59. EXCUSE ME????? The ENTIRE Palestine Mandate was,

by vote of the League of Nations, to be the Jewish homeland. Eventually that was reduced to the area west of the Jordan - 78% of the Mandate became the Kingdom of Jordan, where Jews weren't allowed to purchase land or to settle. This is in spite of the fact that Jewish people have lived IN ISRAEL and in the surrounding area, for thousands of years, continuously. Jerusalem has been a majority Jewish city for ages.

In 1948, a tiny sliver of the land west of the Jordan, plus the Negev desert, was reluctantly partitioned by UN, primarily because a) the Jewish homeland was a reality already and b) the Jewish population had been devastated by the Holocaust.

Even that little snip wasn't acceptable to the Arabs, who attacked with 7 armies and tried to murder the young nation beginning on Day #1 of her existence. The West Bank fell to Jordan, Jerusalem was rescued only by a miracle; subsequently all the Jews on the West Bank and East Jerusalem, plus the Jewish population THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE MIDDLE EAST were harrassed and expelled - almost 1,000,000 people.

Out of their enormous lands and resources, the Arabs can't spare a region smaller than New Jersey?

With all due respect it takes a hell of a nerve, to complain that "undoing the Diaspora was a bad idea." Had it not been for that, even more European Jews would have perished in the fires. My own grandparents fled the Russian pogroms. Many more perished. Israel at least gives hunted and persecuted people some hope of finding refuge, some hope of self-defense.

Middle Eastern Jewry, post WWII, at least had a place to flee.

Sounds like I might need it too.

Thanks.

[Spinoza]

102. There you go again Colorado,

with all your "history" bullshit. Dammit, even if its true we don't want any more of this history crap! What we want is respect and understanding and compassion for ......one side only.

[Violet_Crumble]

110. You noticed that too??

I don't think there's much that can be done to stop the one-sided 'history' of the sort in the post you replied to. When I have the patience, I tend to sit and point out what's incorrect, but I've noticed the same incorrect one-sided stuff just keeps coming relentlessly. If yr interested in a much less one-sided quick history of the conflict, there's some good books out there that will supply just that. But if someone's looking for a one-sided and inaccurate version of events where one side is good and pure and never did anything wrong, and the other side is the evil villains who are to blame for everything, then I guess posts along the lines of that one are the way to go.

A really excellent book is 'The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World' by Avi Shlaim...

Violet...

[Colorado Blue]

115. LOL!

It's annoying isn't it:)

[Violet_Crumble]

117. Uh, then why do it?

n/t

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Englander]

98. Sheesh, it's Dempster *STREET*.

Can't you get anything right?

http://cms.psychologytoday.com/usnews/prof_detail.php?profid=32257&sid=1139841984.1647_28116&city=Skokie&state=Illinois

[goforit]

11. Yikes!

[stepnw1f]

15. He's Got to be a Neo-Con Plant! What Ridiculous Statements

that's if he even said them.

[Spankydem]

20. Maybe.....just maybe.....

he IS psycho who IS about to get a nuke who WILL use it to destroy a country ??

ya, think ??

[thebigidea]

21. yeah, our past wars based entirely on "maybe" worked real well

maybe the domino effect will lead to a completely communist asia...

maybe iraq will send killer death drones loaded with nuclear weapons to america...

[stepnw1f]

23. Maybe Santa is Real Too

just MAYBE

[Spankydem]

25. One small problem....

Santa hasnt been openly and actively persuing nukes and has stated he will use them.

Usually when some says their going to kill you, i tend to believe them. But thats just me.

[stepnw1f]

41. Persuing... so what?

We make em... what's your point? Who started the global arms race?

You have proof they are going to have them anytime in the near future?

You have proof they are pursuing them?

You have proof?

What's the HURRY... Take a chill pill......

This is the type of HYSTERICS that got us into Iraq REMEMBER!!!!:think:

[Chi-Town Exile]

71. Condemning Iran's loony leader for his asinine comments

doesn't mean that we think we should go into Iran.

Quite a jump in logic, don't you think?

[stepnw1f]

73. Whateverrrrrrrr (nt)

[CJCRANE]

83. The Iranian prez

has never openly pursued nukes or stated he will use them. That's a false claim.

(He maybe a nutcase for denying the Holocaust though).

[CJCRANE]

35. He doesn't want to PHYSICALLY

destroy Israel because that's the land the Palestinians want to go back to. You don't nuke where you eat (to paraphrase a well-known saying).

A political removal of Israel is what he's talking about. It's still not exactly nice but it's not the same as threating to nuke them.

[Colorado Blue]

55. Right.

He's going to non-nuclearly force the Israelis to do what? Or just shoot them? Once again, dispossessing and humiliating the Jewish people, this time creating a SECOND loss of their homeland.

That's just great.

I do appreciate the kind explanation however.

[Chi-Town Exile]

68. Hitler didn't mean anything when he threatened ...

Oh, I forgot! The Holocaust never happened!!!

My Bad. :sarcasm:

[CJCRANE]

70. OK

you got a point - I'm not really on safe ground trying to parse the words of a Holocaust-denier.

I guess it's just that the Iranians are the underdogs at this point in time (although their leader is definitely helping to paint a very large bulls-eye on the place).

[Spankydem]

85. CJ.....

You said something interesting....

"Iranians are the underdogs at this point"

I wonder how you came to that conclusion.....a terror supporting theocratic reactionary state led by a holocaust denier who has stated he will use nukes without hesitation and will wipe "the zionist entity" off the face of the earth,who scares europe,the US and israel to no end, is considered the "UNDERDOG"??

Is that how you base you international politics?

Based on the "underdog" theory....you would therefore support

al-queda's attacks of 911
blowing up israeli busses and pizzerias
the beheadings of those people in iraq
nazi germany



I mean technically they are all "underdogs".....no??

[Andromeda]

93. Iran is hardly an underdog.

I don't see any country who threatens another an underdog---more like a tyrant.

A very dangerous tyrant.

[Spinoza]

103. Actually, and with all respect,,

it would be a THIRD loss of their homeland. Remember, the ...."We wept by the rivers of Babylon..." That was the first time. The Roman dispersion following the Great Rebellion was the 2nd time. The next forcible dispersion will be #3.

[Violet_Crumble]

113. What next forcible dispersion??

As for the rest of that, methinks some people aren't able to tell the difference between a modern nation-state and what existed back in times of old....

Violet...

[barb162]

78. I think he does want to physically remove them along with

Mashaal of Hamas; there's no minced words on the subject when either of them talk

[Andromeda]

84. Gee, ya think?

I feel so much better now. NOT!

[fujiyama]

91. That's really grasping for straws

The stated intent is clear enough. He wants to destroy the state of Israel by whatever means necessary.
This coupled with his denials of the holocaust, likely indicate that he would be in favor of wiping out all Jews residing there.

OTOH, if he is actually stupid enough to nuke Israel, the fallout would kill many Palestinians as well and make the land uninhabitable.

[Behind the Aegis]

94. good catch...

"OTOH, if he is actually stupid enough to nuke Israel, the fallout would kill many Palestinians as well and make the land uninhabitable."

And therein is the real issue. He isn't pro-Palestinian, he is anti-Israeli and anti-Semitic. The enemy of the Jew is his friend. He doesn't care about the plight of the Palestinian people. By all accounts, there aren't even Palestinians living in Iran. So, the destruction of Israel would be inconsequential to him. But what surrounding Arabs? He is Persian and doesn't much care for the Arabs, any more than they care for him or his country. The only city likely to survive would be Jerusalem, because it houses the Dome of the Rock.

[Endangered Specie]

22. In a way I kinda hope they try...

So perhaps Isreal will bomb this nut into oblivion.

[agincourt]

26. He is learning from conservatives,

He sees Bush's success that 9/11 brought. Like Bush he his shakey in his country with his kook ideology. A massive airstrike would give him legitamacy he hopes. They don't have to be a plant, they can merely copy. Ironic that his type of politics rose at the same time as conservative politics. I would ask them after they say shit like this, "OK now show some REAL nerve and give us the October suprise evidence".

[sarcasmo]

34. Kick and Nom #1 for this IDIOT and Dictator 43 starting WWIII.

When worlds collide. Ahmadinejad is nutty enough to provoke Israel to strike and then get ready for Armageddon. With the End Timers like Brownback pushing for total destruction I foresee WWIII as all to real.

[AntiFascist]

88. Wasn't there news recently that Russia warned that...

their nuclear missles could still penetrate our defenses? Of course, now watch a ramp up in the Defense Shield research.

[CJCRANE]

36. Does anyone think the Iran prez looks like W with a beard?

Any DU photoshop wizards out there to do a comparison?

[Chi-Town Exile]

44. It's truly interesting that there are so many "progressives"

on this website that agree with Ahmadinejad.

Let's put it this way, guys, your calls for world peace etc. ring pretty hollow when you talk about "removing" a sovereign nation.

I would like to see the Israeli/Palestinian conflict settled by having TWO sovereign nations living side by side in peace. However, taking the position that Israel has to go will take us nowhere and will continue to cause senseless violence and bloodshed.

And no, my friends, it is not ALL one sided, Israel/Jews are not the cause of EVERYTHING evil in this world.

But keep putting the tinfoil on ... it really helps your cause. :tinfoilhat:

[Spankydem]

49. "Israel/Jews are not the cause of EVERYTHING evil " ??

youre not going to blame those reactionary fundi countries that are a throwback to the 13th century, are you ?

[Colorado Blue]

56. I'm rather upset with this thread myself.

Thanks folks.

[Coastie for Truth]

64. Actually the self nominated Progressives

who put all the blame on Israel are the facilitators/enablers of the ongoing conflict.

[barb162]

77. Tell it like it is, Coastie!!!

bravo

[Andromeda]

90. So true, Coastie!

:applause:

[Violet_Crumble]

112. Wrong, Coastie...

I've noticed that there's a habit of viewing ANY criticism of Israels policy as having 'put all the blame on Israel'. In reality the facilitators/enablers of the conflict are generally Americans who support the ongoing occupation and oppression of the Palestinian people. In some cases they support transferring them out of Israel and the Occupied Territories, in others they will try to claim that demolishing homes of innocent Palestinians is merely 'urban resettlement', in even others they will refer to the disengagement as ethnic cleansing. I'm still waiting for anyone to explain how those sorts of stances are the slightest bit on the progressive side. Coz if that's what it takes to be a progressive, there's no way I want to be one...

Violet...

[Coastie for Truth]

118. We have a Yiddish expression - Americanized

The Yiddish Expression (as Americanized) is "KMT"

[Violet_Crumble]

119. And I bet there's not going to be a translation forthcoming...

Just like there was never any answer to my question in the recent thread where you claimed (falsely, I now know) that US oil-companies don't have Jewish employees...



Violet...

[Behind the Aegis]

114. You are so correct!

Well played!

The Persistence of Anti-Semitism on the British Left (Although, certainly not limited to that country's left.)

Anti-Semitism: Integral to European Culture
(The meaty part starts at New Anti-Semitism, however this part was worth its own re-printing here:

Differences between Anti-Semitism and Criticism
It is often difficult to pinpoint the border between criticism of Israel and anti-Semitism. Irwin Cotler has suggested some guidelines. He claims that critics of Israel become anti-Semites when:

1. They publicly call for the destruction of Israel and the Jewish people. This is the case with the covenant of Palestinian terrorist groups (PLO and Hamas) and some militant Islamic legal rulings (fatawin), as well as the Iranian threat to annihilate Israel ("genocidal anti-Semitism").

2. They deny the Jewish people's right to self-determination, de-legitimize Israel as a state and attribute to Israel all the world's evil ("political anti-Semitism").

3. They Nazify Israel ("ideological anti-Semitism").

4. Israel is characterized as the perfidious enemy of Islam ("theological anti-Semitism").

5. Israel is attributed a mix of evil qualities by salon intellectuals and western elites ("cultural anti-Semitism").

6. They call for restrictions against those trading with Israel ("economic anti-Semitism").

7. They deny the Holocaust.

8. They carry out racist terrorism against Israel.

9. They single out Israel for discriminatory treatment in the international arena through denial of equality before the law.15)

And, then there is this...
The shame of the pro-Palestinian left (need a subscription to Salon.com)

[stepnw1f]

72. "Progressives on this website that agree with Ahmadinejad"

you want to point to one example?

[Chi-Town Exile]

79. Pal, I have a whole IGNORE list of them. nt

[stepnw1f]

80. sure you do pal

and you been added to one.

[Chi-Town Exile]

81. I almost didn't see this message because I had already added you!

Wasn't worth taking you off the list for a couple of seconds, that's for sure.

[Violet_Crumble]

111. Gosh, did I miss the bit where they agreed with the Iranian nutter?

Or was that stuff about an ignore list full of folk who agreed with him a bit of dramatic license?

Violet...

[george_hurley]

121. ***SIGN MY PETITION: NO WAR WITH IRAN!****

Hello,

For the past year, the growing tensions mounting between the US, Israel, and Iran are reaching a point where military action against Iran is w/in months of becoming reality. The repercussions are terrifying as such military action could involve countries such as China and Russia as they share massive energy/economic interests w/ Iran. The most likely scenario we would face would be the collapse of the US economy as the combination of a massive rise in oil prices and a run on the US dollar would surely be the weapon many countries would use to fight back against a preemptive US or Israeli strike.

For a collection of articles and resources on this subject you can visit this link: http://reseaudesign.com/research/iran/iran_summery.html

I'm starting up a petition which I will be sending out to as many members of Congress as possible. I'm asking for help to get this signed by as many people, possible in the next month. Send it to as many people you can.

http://www.petitiononline.com/n0war1rn/


Thanks for your time