Iran's Ahmadinejad says Israel should be moved to Europe

[barb162]

Dec 08 11:51 AM US/Eastern

Iran's hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said that if Germany and Austria feel responsible for massacring Jews during World War II, a state of Israel should be established on their soil. Ahmadinejad, who sparked an international outcry in October when he said Israel "must be wiped off the map", also repeated his view Thursday that the Jewish state was a "tumour".


"Now that you believe the Jews were oppressed, why should the Palestinian Muslims have to pay the price?" the hardline president asked in an interview with Iran's Arabic-language satellite channel, Al-Alam.

"Why did you come to give a piece of Islamic land and the territory of the Palestinian people to them?

"You oppressed them, so give a part of Europe to the Zionist regime so they can establish any government they want. We would support it," he said, according to a transcript of his original Farsi-language comments given to AFP.
snip
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/08/051208164944.y49anqze.html

[barb162]

1. Iran's president questions Holocaust

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2005-12-08T191744Z_01_RID850121_RTRUKOC_0_US-MIDEAST-IRAN-AHMADINEJAD.xml&rpc=22

Iran's president questions Holocaust
Thu Dec 8, 2005 2:18 PM ET

By Paul Hughes
TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Thursday expressed doubt the Holocaust took place and suggested the Jewish state of Israel be moved to Europe.

His comments, reported by Iran's official IRNA news agency from a news conference he gave in the Saudi Arabian city of Mecca, follow his call in October for Israel to be "wiped off the map", which sparked widespread international outrage.

The latest comments also provoked quick condemnation. German Chancellor Angela Merkel called them "totally unacceptable" and British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said "I condemn them unreservedly. They have no place in civilized political debate."

Ahmadinejad was quoted by IRNA as saying: "Some European countries insist on saying that Hitler killed millions of innocent Jews in furnaces and they insist on it to the extent that if anyone proves something contrary to that they condemn that person and throw them in jail."

snip

I posted two versions of this story because this man's take on diplomacy is, um, shall we say, so totally unique.

[cloud_chaser1]

2. I question

Amahdinejad's sanity.

[AlamoDemoc]

3. War of Roses? darn good movie..with M. Douglas & Cathleen Turner

[David__77]

4. I do think that Europe and America should have welcomed them.

It is a shame that Hitler largely accomplished his goal of a Jew-free Europe. Poland had millions of Jews and now only several thousand. The U.S. should have welcomed all Jews to come and become citizens, furthermore.

[barb162]

5. You are so right! n/t

[11cents]

6. It would not have saved many...

...since few could have gotten out. The vast majority of the dead were Eastern European Jews who, unlike German Jews, had not experienced several years worth of pre-final-solution Nazi rule as a motivation to leave in time. Not to mention, Eastern European Jews were relatively poor on average and it would have been difficult for them to immigrate.

[11cents]

7. Oh, and this "Europe" you mention

...was mostly under Nazi rule itself.

[Violet_Crumble]

12. That's right...

Eastern European Jews had no warning and no way of knowing what was coming. I doubt many people at all at the time had any clue that the Soviet Union would be invaded by the Nazis when Hitler decided the Non-Aggression Pact wasn't worth taking any notice of. Likewise, some German Jews who did flee Nazi Germany fled to places like France where the Nazis invaded and started rounding up Jews....

Violet...

[pelsar]

10. anti semetism....

it was quite wide spread pre WWII....there was no way the US was going to accept the jews of europe......they didnt even except a single boat or refugees....

[IndianaGreen]

14. Exactly, no one wanted the Jews of Europe!

The Europeans didn't want them. The Americans didn't either!

We could have used an army of Raoul Wallenbergs back then!

[barb162]

33. Yes, it was an extremely horrible, strange time

for the Jews of Europe.

[barb162]

34. The US and many other countries hsould have welcomed the Jews

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Violet_Crumble]

11. Look over there! Quick! Look over there!

I bet this guy thought to himself: 'I'll take a leaf out of the Look Over There book' and if I say some really outrageous shit about Israel and the Holocuast, then no-one's going to notice that a Hercules that wasn't safe to fly crashed into an apartment building immediately after take-off, and they won't be angry at me because I, along with the assistance of US sanctions, let the airforce slide into such a state of disrepair. Yeah, that'll work!'

Violet...

[bemildred]

13. I was just wondering about that.

He's either a twit, or he's playing the "crazy guy" strategy. The position that he is in now would argue against him being a fool (although you can say the same about Bush or Sharon for instance) and Lord knows the "crazy guy" strategy is popular these days:

Mofaz: Israel must face Iran with solutions 'other than diplomatic'

Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz on Friday spoke harshly against Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadenijad saying Israel must prepare solutions "other than diplomatic" in the face of Tehran's persistent advancement of its nuclear program.

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/655943.html

[Wordie]

17. I read a report someplace...

don't have the link now, sorry...

It said that he was out of his depth. He apparently had been a revolutionary-type way back when and was having difficulty understanding that the sort of fiery rhetoric that might have been acceptable (to Iranians) when he was a student leader, could potentially have horrible ramifications once he became a player on the world stage.

If that is indeed what's at the root of all this ugly talk, hope he figures it out soon because this guy is not doing the region in general any favors, by constantly stirring up everyone's emotions. Of course, none of that is to say he isn't unbalanced, too.

That said, I hope everyone else will determine whether it really is rhetoric or genuine threat before going off the deep end as well and taking any military action against Iran on the basis of these statements.

[bemildred]

31. It's hard to say at this point.

The supreme pooh-bah of Iran just came out in support of him, which supports the idea that he is not winging it. And in the present circumstances, I see no reason to think he will have to pay any penalty for it. True, the Western powers will "condemn" him, but they are impotent to punish him in any substantive way without also harming themselves gravely. Iran is large, well-armed, sits astride the Straits of Hormuz, and has a long continuous border with the US tar-baby in Iraq. We would not BE in Iraq now without the tacit support of Iran. One could say the same about Afghanistan. The fact is Iran has been THE major beneficiary of the War on Terror, so far. As the fellow said, the worst strategic blunder in US history. (Custer was a tactical error.)

[Wordie]

32. I've been saying that too...that it's Iran that benefits. Sad. Dumb. eom

[pelsar]

15. religious fanatics....

follow different rules......i dont believe there is any sense in trying to follow their thought process, my experience is that its an experiment in insanity.....

[Lithos]

16. I'm in agreement with VC

While religious fanatics are generally crazy as you suggest, that does not mean there isn't a certain method to their madness.

L-

[pelsar]

18. oh they have methods....

and they are very intelligent and some are brilliant....but in my discussions with them (far right settlers), the basic element within their methods and logic is that it all starts with GOD gave us/god told us.....

once that is your base, western values go out the door (the logic stays, the methodology takes full advantage of the means at hand, and you may find some influence of western values, but it wont go so far as to change the base...

and that is the crazy part.

perhaps a short explantion might help: when i go to the reserves and served in gaza, i saw it as risking my life for the settlers and their vision of israel.....as they are citizens of israel and the govt at that time deemed it important that they be protected, i saw it as my duty. The settlers however did not see it as "because of them, i was risking my life for them". Quite the contrary, in their eyes they were doing me the favor. Because of them, i got the chance to do a good deed, to help protect the land of israel. In fact in "my sorry life" that is not religious, they were in fact giving me quite the oppertunity, they wer doing me the favor.

so too with irans president...he means every word of it..and if he gets the chance to nuke israel, he may do it....and in his eyes, in doing so he will be doing the world..not just the muslim world, but the whole world a favor. and he should be thanked for it and will forever be deemed a "super holy person"...or whatever.

[pelsar]

25. violet....be serious...

planes crash....and I've never heard of any govt attempting to "distract attention" when it happens. Its tragic, but no more than that.

as far as his little statements...why makes excuses for him?...saying it once, it can be explained as "an off the record remark, a mistake...saying it twice means he means it...repeating it in an intl conference makes if flat out clear.

he simply means it.....there is no reason for attempting to find excuses for what he has said, he has repeated it very very clearly

the only question that remains is if he has the means to do something about it, if he will in what degree and or can he be "held back'...but his beliefs are crystal clear.

[Violet_Crumble]

28. I am being serious...

Don't think for a moment that I'm making excuses for what he said. I'm not. Yes, planes crash, but the circumstances of this one was creating a lot of anger within Iran. This military aircraft sat on the ground delayed for around eight hours for 'maintenance'. When it took off, full of Iranian journalists (this should give a bit of a clue as to where the anger was coming from over what happened), the pilot immediately asked for clearance to make an emergency landing, which was denied. Pretty soon after that it crashed into an apartment building, killing all on board and more in the building. This definately was something that the Iranian govt would like to divert attention away from. And isn't the Look Over There! tactic one that's used regularly by govts in that region? So what's so hard to believe that it could have happened this time too?

Violet...

[pelsar]

29. the look over there...syndrom

sure thats common...standard in fact...but the iranian president has made his views very clear...before the plane crash (which by virtue of your info sounds particulary gruesome)

i'm sure if we wait another week the pres will come up with another statement..he seems to be on a role....

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Wordie]

21. I think you have gotten quite a bit confused there, in your post...

The Jewish people rose up against an earlier occupation by Rome, nearly 2,000 years ago. You can read about this in history books, and the roots of it are even spoken of in the Bible. So for you to ask the question about why they left, as if it was intentional, is understandably offensive. I am not Jewish, but it is my understanding that in all the intervening years there was a great sadness as a part of the Jewish religion over the loss of their spiritual home. One might disagree with what is going on now, but that is no reason to make the sort of comment you did here.

So, that comment, for starters, pretty much shuts down conversation...and then the other one, about the overstatement of the holocaust, is also seen as highly offensive. I would double check your sources...where did you get that information?

[Name removed]

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[Violet_Crumble]

24. Why are you posting crap from a white supremicist site??

Didn't you work out that it was an anti-semitic site even without being told? I'd have thought that logo 'Exposing international jewry for the bloodsucking parasites that they are!' would have given most folk just a bit of a hint...

That site is disgusting. Why are you reading crap on a site like that?

Violet...

[pelsar]

26. you gotta just love it....

from the front page:

We understand that the Jew is the literal child of Satan and is the natural enemy of the White race, the Children of God.....

little hint there....

[Name removed]

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[Violet_Crumble]

30. It's really full-on, pelsar...

I went to the main page, saw that logo I quoted, and backed out of there real quick. Yuck. I think this site is a lesson to some people to be really, really cautious when googling on subjects like the Holocaust. Just reading that page alone without venturing anywhere else on the site should have given anyone reading a huge clue that there's some huge Holocaust denial going on there....

Violet...

[Violet_Crumble]

23. There's no evidence to suggest that at all...

It's generally accepted that 6 million Jews died in the Holocaust, give or take a million either way. My opinion is that once those numbers fall below 4.5 million, or are inflated much beyond 7 million, those who are giving 'evidence' have an agenda that has little to do with fact. One thing I've noticed is that while the figure for non-Jews killed in the Holocaust also sits around 6 million, I haven't seen the same critical scrutiny and doubts about the number killed as there has been for the Jews. I'd be very cautious of any evidence claiming that 6 million Jews killed in the Holocaust is wildly overstated, and instead look at evidence from those who have studied what happened and have done a detailed tally of deaths. Raul Hilberg's book 'The Destruction of the European Jews' is a good place to start....

Violet...