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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-05 04:30 PM
Original message
Is anyone here exploring the AIPAC - PNAC connection? I have
begun to do so in an effort to understand more about why the NYT wouldn't cut Judy loose. It's just an idea but it seems to me that they may be connected. Anyone else have this idea? Is there research ongoing right now about this here at DU?
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bj2110 Donating Member (802 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-05 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. And the AIPAC is??
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-05 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I can't remember exactly what the acronyms stand
for, but it's an Israeli lobbying group that has a lot of influence in the halls of Congress. Two of their officials have just been indicted on spying charges as well as Larry Franklin from the DoD. Larry has plead guilty and is spilling the beans now.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-05 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. The American Israel Public Affairs Committee Big Pro-Israel lobby.
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #6
18. AIPAC, lobbies for Israels financial and physical security. nm
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #18
35. It pushed for the Iraq war and has been pushing even harder for IRAN WAR
Sharon went to Crawford to convice Bush to back "Project Daniel" and even appeared in a one-hour interview/discussion segment on FOX News to push how dangerous to the world the supposed nuclear bombs of Iran are.

Here's a bit about Project Daniel:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_I...

1st strike on Iran 'gaining traction'


Report urges U.S., Israel to consider pre-emptive attack against Tehran
Posted: May 4, 2005

By Aaron Klein
2005 WorldNetDaily.com

(snip)

"Decision-makers at the very highest levels of government in Jerusalem and Washington as well as NATO have been briefed on Project Daniel. Sharon last month carried our urgent message directly to President Bush," said Dr. Louis Rene Beres, Project Daniel chair and a professor of international law at Purdue University whose books and articles are routinely considered by military officials.

Project Daniel recommends that with Tehran now developing the infrastructure that could allow the country to go nuclear, the United States or Israel should strike pre-emptively against Iran's nuclear installations if the diplomatic track fails.


"The group suggests strongly and unequivocally that conventional Israeli pre-emption against selected enemy nuclear infrastructures now in development be executed as early as possible and wherever possible in collaboration with the United States. Where America may be unable or unwilling to act proactively against these infrastructures, it is essential that Israel be able and willing to act alone," says the report.

Project Daniel urges Israel to strike Iran's nuclear facilities using covert operations, conventional weaponry and, if it can be reasonably assured of success, by targeting Iran's regime leadership.

(snip)


You may recall those bunker-busting bombs Israel bought from the US, carefully timed to keep the deal secret for the 2004 election? Here's a bit on that - guess where they would want to use them:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/20...

Israel challenges Iran's nuclear ambitions


By Anton La Guardia, Diplomatic Editor
(Filed: 22/09/2004)

Israel admitted yesterday that it is buying 500 "bunker-buster" bombs, which could be used to hit Iran's nuclear facilities, as Teheran paraded ballistic missiles as a warning against attack.

The BLU-109 bombs, which can penetrate more than 7ft of reinforced concrete, are among "smart" munitions being sold to Israel under America's military aid programme.

(snip)

Israel regards Iran as its greatest strategic enemy and has issued thinly-veiled threats of military action to try to stop Teheran's nuclear programme if diplomatic efforts fail to halt it.

(snip)

Western diplomats believe that America, or Israel, could resort to air strikes against nuclear facilities. Israel's bombing of Saddam Hussein's Osirak reactor in 1981, which set back Iraq's nuclear programme, is held up as a model of "pre-emptive action".

(snip)


Of course, they bought the specialized "bunker-busting" bombs from the U.S. Elsewhere in this article are the statement from Israeli sources that the sale would go through after the Nov 2004 US Presidential election - didn't want to scare voters off so much that election fraud would be too obvious. And then there is another statement from an Israeli source: "This is not the sort of ordnance needed for the Palestinian front. Bunker busters could serve Israel against Iran, or possibly Syria."

This article also has a helpful graphic to show how these bombs could hit Iran's underground nuclear facilities:



As of mid-July, Israel was READY TO LAUNCH PRE-EMPTIVE STRIKE ON IRAN:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6518.ht...

Report: Israel ready for pre-emptive strike against Iran's nuclear facility


By Ellis Shuman

July 19, 2004 "Israel Insider" -- The Israeli Air Force has completed military preparations for a pre-emptive strike at Iran's Bushehr nuclear facility and will attack if Russia supplies Iran with rods for enriching uranium, Israeli officials said, according to a report in the London Sunday Times. Military sources said the raid would be carried out by long-range F-15I jets, overflying Turkey, with simultaneous operations by commandos on the ground.

(snip)

The Iranian nuclear threat has been on Israel's agenda for some time, and the issue was raised in talks between Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and U.S. President George W. Bush in Washington last year. The Washington Post reported in August 2003 that administration officials were increasingly concerned that Israel would launch a per-emptive strike against Iran.

In its report, the Sunday Times quoted a senior U.S. official warning of a pre-emptive Israeli strike if Russia continues cooperating with the Iranians. He said Washington was unlikely to block Israeli attacks against Iran.

The paper also quoted from a classified document on the Iranian threat, entitled "The Strategic Future of Israel," which was presented to Sharon earlier this year. The document allegedly advocates military action against "countries which develop nuclear weapons" and describes Iran as a "suicide nation" and recommends "targeted killings" of members of the country's elite, including its leading nuclear scientists.

(snip)


Note the "commandos on the ground." Do you doubt that those 700 special US paratrooper forces brought into Iraq would participate in this?

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SammyBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 06:27 AM
Response to Reply #35
52. You know, I have alot of friends and fraternity brothers in AIPAC
They go to the AIPAC convention every year. I wouldn't consider any of them neo-cons or warhawks, just JEWS who defend Israel's right to exist as a state were Jews aren't discriminated against, like was the case in EVERY EUROPEAN COUNTRY since the beginning of the Common Era.

Sorry, this is where DU and I differ. I support AIPAC and I support Israel and whatever Israel needs to do to survive and flourish. Too long my people were the scapegoats and brutalized. Israel needs to defend itself from terrorists who target school buses and nightclubs.

AIPAC is a way to promote the ideas. The AADC do the same for Arab causes. But, little is ever said when a Jew is killed by a suicide bomber, but G-d forbid one Arab gets their hair messed up by Israeli action. It will be the end of the world.

I am preparing to get torched.
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julianer Donating Member (964 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #52
55. Israel has no right to exist
Nor does any other counrty. What body, apart from god(s), can give a country a right to exist?

Israel exists at the moment, but it didn't 100 years ago and probably won't in another 100 years.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #55
56. Before the Brits divided up the ME
Israel had only been a country for 70 years during the reign of King David and King Solomon.



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SammyBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. Wrong. Israel was created by a UN Partition.
Not by the British.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #56
65. Wrong on your ancient history....
Isreal had a life independent from ohhers for over 300 hundred years and tehn it was divided between the Norhern Kingdon and the Southern Kingdom, and the northern kingdom was taken over befoer the south fell... when it did, that was Nebuhanazer, who took the elite to the first exodus

After taht Isreal became a nation once agin for another 150 years, interrubpted by the Greeks and again won its independence, albeit briefly, with the help of the rising Roman Empire. They then became a colony of the Empire and after the revolt of the year 70 the elite was taken away and spread to the four winds.

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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. My point is/was that Israel has never been a recognized country
for any significant amount of time. Neither have most other places in the ME that we now consider sovereign nations. Some how they seemed to all get along a lot better with each other before western/euro man decided to divide and conquer. That's one of the reasons why it is so hard for us westerners to impose boundaries now.

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. my point is that you really have not made your point
500 years is not enough for you? xcuse me that is longer than the US, and that is ONLY one of the periods involved here.

Oh and Egypt's modern boundaries are very close to the High Period as well.

Now to the rest, the modern period has precious little to do with the ancient world, except that even after the second exodus of the year 70 first there have been Jews living in that land continuously for the last 7,000 years, second, there was a memory left for 2,000

And insofar as us making divisions, that is the problem with empires, they did it when they could.

As to the rest, under international law Israel has a right to exist, as it has been recognized by all nations, (De Jure) as a nation... so legally it has a right to exist.

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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #66
72. Neither were the present
Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, or Lebanon.

They all have as much validity as Isrel - or an independent Palestine, or an independent Kurdistan.

Ref:"A Century Of War: Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order" by F. William Engdahl
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SammyBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #55
60. Okay. . .put yourself in 1945.
The Jews of Europe have almost been annihiliated by the Nazis. The Holocaust surviviors have no where to go because no country in Europe, and the United States, do not want to take them in. The Jews have a historical, biblical and cultural claim to the area around Jeruseleum.

Knowing that, and realizing that Judeophobia and anti-semeitism is rampant in Europe, and the United States' unwillingness to help, what should you do with the displaced holocaust survivors?

Israel was created because NO COUNTRY IN THE WORLD WANTED JEWISH HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS!!! And, apparently, the case is still the same, because Jews continuely get railed against if they sneeze and an Arab's misses an appointment by 10 seconds.

Jewish blood is so cheap, right???
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countryjake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #52
61. But do you also support Rosen & Weissman?
OSP-AIPAC SPY CASE REVEALS ISRAELI PLOT TO PLANT IRAN WMD DATA
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/6/15/12176/9231



Details of a Plot Unveiled in Case Against Franklin

BY ELI LAKE - Staff Reporter of the Sun
June 14, 2005
URL: http://www.nysun.com/article/15374

~snip~

"The FBI probe into Mr. Franklin and two Aipac lobbyists, Steven Rosen and Keith Weissman, has attracted considerable press attention since the story was leaked in August last year. In April, Aipac terminated the employment of Mr. Rosen, who served as the organization's director of foreign policy, and Mr. Weissman, who was one of Aipac's top Iran policy analysts."
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #52
64. I am Jewish, I suport the rigfht of Israel to exist
I don't support AIPAC, and AIPAC is a poison pill

Oh and don't preach to me about the holocaust, I am the daughter of a holocaust survivor... and seeing some of the things the IDF does turns my stomach... of course I am an equal oportunity turns my stomach when suicide bombers do what they do

First thing that needs to happen to you is to admit Palestinians are people too... second realize that the Right Wing Ideology is going to kill Israel... yes that blunt
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SammyBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #64
69. Granted
Edited on Fri Oct-14-05 05:40 PM by SammyBlue
I agree Palestinians are people.

I'm sorry you're the daughter of a holocaust survivor. I lost 78 members of my family to the Nazis.

Think is, when the Palestinian terrorists stop blowing up buses and nightclub. . .sit down without an "all or nothing" attitude and put in good faith effort, I would support them.

Unfortunately, Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Aqsa and the like are poison pills too. My point is when the IDF and AIPAC does something, it's wrong, but when things are done to Jews, there is narry a peep. Why? Jewish Blood is cheap.

And, granted again. . .the RW doesn't care about Israel. Not in the abstract. . .they view it as a sign of the second coming. Nice, huh? These people are using their christian theology to support Israel. It's bullshit to begin with.

Israel, in 1948 and into the 1970s, was a liberal cause. Now, it's a conservative cause? It's only conservative as a way to tell American Jews to go to Israel, so there will be one less faith blocking their Christian theological attitudes of making America a theology based on Christian zealtry and fundamentalism. . .basically, an American Taliban.
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #52
71. As VP Spiro T. Agnew used to say
The "Radic-Libs" will get you.

You know, where Progressiveism comes 180 degrees full circle to the Right Wing. I call them the Shattuck Avenue Libs.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
21. I wouldn't be surprised
Edited on Fri Oct-14-05 12:41 AM by FreedomAngel82
Go to http://www.informationclearinghouse.info and watch the documentary "The War Party". This documentary shows how the neocons are very pro-military and very pro-Jewish/Israel. :shrug: And if you haven't you should read the PNAC plans.
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #21
27. Thanks. I am familiar with PNAC.n.t
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #27
73. But - is your knowledge "blog knowledge" or
have you read all of that crap?
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laureloak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-05 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Here's a link
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-05 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. I see you got some answers to that question. nm
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bj2110 Donating Member (802 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #12
58. Yes, thanks. Every day is a learning experience, imo... nt
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-05 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. have you had a chance to cross reference names of stockholders,
etc of NYT and the PNAC??? That would be a chore but links like that usually yield gold ...
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-05 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. Not yet, but that's a good idea. thanks nm
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marbuc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-05 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. I have little doubt they are connected
but haven't seen anything to this effect, or to the contrary.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #3
22. See if Chalibai is connected to them
That's where Miller got her connection is from him apparently.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-05 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
7. Wurmser n/t
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-05 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Fruitful...thanks. nm
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-05 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
8. Not AIPAC but Doug Feith and Richard Perle wrote the following report
for Israel, A Clean Break. Deep shades of PNAC

http://www.israeleconomy.org/strat1.htm

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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-05 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Thanks for this nm
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-05 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
9. KOS on Miller
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-05 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
14. Ayup...here are some good links to pore over >>>>
September 2, 2004
Ashcroft Nixes Arrests in Israeli Spy Probe
by Matthew Barganier
http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=3489

The neoconservative New York Sun is reporting that Attorney General John Ashcroft halted arrests in the Israeli spy case last Friday. From the Sun:=

"According to sources familiar with the investigation, the U.S. district attorney in charge of the probe, Paul McNulty, has ordered the FBI not to move forward with arrests that they were prepared to make last Friday when the story broke on CNN and CBS. 'He put the brakes on it in order to look at it,' a source familiar with the investigation told the Sun. 'To see what was there. Basically the FBI wanted to start making arrests and McNulty said "Woa, based on what? Let's look at this before you do anything."' . . .

"Mr. McNulty was only assigned the case by Attorney General Ashcroft last Friday when federal agents came to AIPAC's offices in Washington to request files and hard drives. 'Ashcroft wanted to make sure this case was being handled properly,' the source familiar with the probe said. 'I would not expect any action on this for at least three weeks.' This source added that a grand jury is now being selected, but it was likely the charges, initially reported as espionage, would be scaled back to the mishandling of classified information."


The Sun's owners, who include Conrad Black, described the paper's outlook as "certainly neoconservative" when they launched it in early 2002.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050504/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/p...

A Pentagon official said Franklin, who holds a doctorate in Asian studies, continued to work at the Pentagon until his arrest, but he could not immediately say what kind of work he performed or who was his immediate supervisor. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the matter is under FBI investigation.

However, Franklin's top secret security clearance was suspended in June 2004, the Justice Department said. He formerly worked in the office of policy undersecretary Douglas Feith.



A bit more on the neocons and their involvement in spying and Israel.

http://www.newshounds.us/2004/08/31/ap_reports_dod_infi...

While serving as a staffer (along with DOUGLAS FEITH and Frank Gaffney) to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in the 1970s Steven Bryen was accused of passing U.S. military secrets to Israel. !!!!!

---

An interesting article;
(from http://www.aaiusa.org/wwatch/051301.htm )

"My earlier article focused on an examination of Feith's pro-Israel writings. The body of his work reveals a strong ideological and anti-Arab bias. I also noted his close association with the pro-Likud groups, the Zionist Organization of America (ZOA) and his law firm's international work promoting the Israeli arms industry.

In recent weeks more information has surfaced about Feith's activities that raise additional concerns about his nomination.

The first set of allegations are questions regarding Feith's performance during his two previous periods of government service. During the first Reagan Administration, Feith served under Richard Allen on the White House National Security staff. It was Allen who reportedly gave Israel the "green light" to undertake its devastating 1982 invasion of Lebanon.

When Allen was replaced at the White House by William Clark, Feith was fired from his post. There were allegations, at the time, of his bias toward and involvement with Israel.

During Reagan's second term, Feith resurfaced as part of Richard Perle's team at the Pentagon. Perle is a notorious Cold War hawk and a neo-conservative pro-Israel hard-liner. At the Pentagon he was called, by friend and foe alike, the "Prince of Darkness." The team of like-minded associates Perle assembled to work under him at the DOD included not only Feith, but Steven Bryen. While serving as a staffer to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in the 1970s Bryen was accused of passing U.S. military secrets to Israel. He was removed from his post. A third member of the group was Frank Gaffney, who has, like Feith, also produced an extensive body of virulently anti-Arab writings in right wing U.S. newspapers and magazines."



Serving Two Flags
Neo-Cons, Israel and the Bush Administration
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5788.ht...


Dr. Stephen Bryen and Colleagues

In April of 1979, Deputy Assistant Attorney General Robert Keuch recommended in writing that Bryen, then a staff member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, undergo a grand jury hearing to establish the basis for a prosecution for espionage. John Davitt, then Chief of the Justice Department's Internal Security Division, concurred.

<...>

Michael Ledeen, Consultant on Chaos

If Stephen Bryen is the military technology guru in the neo-con pantheon, Michael Ledeen is currently its leading theorist, historian, scholar and writer. It states in the website of his consulting firm, Benador Associates, that he is "...one of the world's leading authorities on intelligence, contemporary history and international affairs" and that...."As Ted Koppel puts it, 'Michael Ledeen is a Renaissance man....in the tradition of Machiavelli.'" Perhaps the following will add some color and texture to this description.

<...>

RICHARD PERLE: A HABIT OF LEAKING

Perle came to Washington for the first time in early 1969, at the age of 28, to work for a neo-con think tank called the "Committee to Maintain a Prudent Defense Policy." Within months, Senator Henry "Scoop" Jackson offered Perle a position on his staff, working with the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. And within months after that--less than a year--Perle was embroiled in an affair involving the leaking of a classified CIA report on alleged past Soviet treaty violations.

<...>

PAUL WOLFOWITZ : A WELL PLACED FRIEND

In 1973, in the dying days of the Nixon Administration, Wolfowitz was recruited to work for the Arms Control and Disarmament Agency (ACDA). There was a certain irony in the appointment, for in the late 1960's, as a graduate student at the University of Chicago, Wolfowitz had been a student and protege of Albert Wohlstetter, an influential, vehement opponent of any form of arms control or disarmament, vis a vis the Soviets. Wolfowitz also brought to ACDA a strong attachment to Israel's security, and a certain confusion about his obligation to U.S. national security.

In 1978, he was investigated for providing a classified document on the proposed sale of U.S. weapons to an Arab government, to an Israel Government official, through an AIPAC intermediary. An inquiry was launched and dropped, however, and Wolfowitz continued to work at ACDA until 1980.

<...>

Douglas Feith: Hardliner, Security Risk

Bush's appointment of Douglas Feith as DoD Undersecretary for Policy in early 2001 must have come as a surprise, and a harbinger, even to conservative veterans of the Reagan and George H.W. Bush Administration. Like Michael Ledeen, Feith is a prolific writer and well-known radical conservative. Moreover, he was not being hired as a DoD consultant, like Ledeen, but as the third most senior United States Defense Department official. Feith was certainly the first, and probably the last high Pentagon official to have publicly opposed the Biological Weapons Convention (in 1986), the Intermediate Nuclear Forces Treaty (in 1988), the Chemical Weapons Convention (in 1997), the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty (in 2000), and all of the various Middle East Peace agreements, including Oslo (in 2000).

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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-05 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. And a Must-See video series (from Fox News, no less) >>>>
Israel Is Spying In And On The U.S.? Part 1
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7545.ht...

BRIT HUME, HOST: It has been more than 16 years since a civilian working for the Navy was charged with passing secrets to Israel. Jonathan Pollard pled guilty to conspiracy to commit espionage and is serving a life sentence. At first, Israeli leaders claimed Pollard was part of a rogue operation, but later took responsibility for his work.

Now Fox News has learned some U.S. investigators believe that there are Israelis again very much engaged in spying in and on the U.S., who may have known things they didn't tell us before September 11. Fox News correspondent Carl Cameron has details in the first of a four-part series.


Published: 12/12/01 FOX News. Part 1 of a 4 part series: Part 2- Part 3 - Part 4
These items have since been removed from the FOX News web site


AIPAC, PNAC....blood buddies. And that blood is death of innocent Americans and now the deaths of US soldiers and Iraqi civilians.
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Thanks these are good links I appreciate it. Lots of good info. nm
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 06:25 AM
Response to Reply #17
51. Yeah. I like that article on the PNACers involved in espionage in the past
I shouldn't have been surprised but still I was.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-05 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
16. Superb NEW YORKER ARTICLE on how AIPAC interfaces with Bush Admin:
hawks and who this led to the Franklin spy scandal.

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/050704fa...

REAL INSIDERS


A pro-Israel lobby and an F.B.I. sting.
by JEFFREY GOLDBERG
Issue of 2005-07-04
Posted 2005-06-27

Several years ago, I had dinner at Galileo, Washington restaurant, with Steven Rosen who was then the director of foreign-policy issues at the American Israel Public Affair Committee. The group, which is better know by its acronym AIPAC, lobbies for Israels financial and physical security. Like many lobbyists, Rosen cultivated reporters, hoping to influence their writing while keeping his name out of print. He is a voluble man, and liked to demonstrate his erudition and dispense aphorisms. One that he often repeated could serve as the credo of K Street, the Rodeo Drive of Washingtons influence industry: A lobby is like a night flower: it thrives in the dark and dies in the sun.

Lobbyists tend to believe that legislators are susceptible to persuasion in ways that executive-branch bureaucrats are not, and before Rosen came to AIPAC, in 1982 (he had been at the rand Corporation, the defense-oriented think tank), the group focussed mainly on Congress. But Rosen arrived brandishing a new idea: that the organization could influence the outcome of policy disputes within the executive branchin particular, the Pentagon, the State Department, and the National Security Council.

Rosen began to court officials. He traded in gossip and speculation, and his reports to aipacs leaders helped them track currents in Middle East policymaking before those currents coalesced into executive orders. Rosen also used his contacts to carry AIPACs agenda to the White House. An early success came in 1983, when he helped lobby for a strategic coperation agreement between Israel and the United States, which was signed over the objections of Caspar Weinberger, the Secretary of Defense, and which led to a new level of intelligence sharing and military sales.

AIPAC is a leviathan among lobbies, as influential in its sphere as the National Rifle Association and the American Association of Retired Persons are in theirs, although it is, by comparison, much smaller. (AIPAC has about a hundred thousand members, the N.R.A. more than four million.) President Bush, speaking at the annual AIPAC conference in May of 2004, said, Youve always understood and warned against the evil ambition of terrorism and their networks. In a dangerous new century, your work is more vital than ever. AIPAC is unique in the top tier of lobbies because its concerns are the economic health and security of a foreign nation, and because its members are drawn almost entirely from a single ethnic group.

(snip - much, much more; this is only the start)


I posted on this some time back and the post was ruthlessly censored and shuffled into the dark closet of the Israeli-Palestinian Relations Forum - though it had nothing to do with Palestinian relations. It's about politics and the impact of this lobby on American foreign policy in general and the Franklin spy scandal in particular. Twice, posts that had only the sentence "It's not anti-Semitic to oppose the pollitical goals of AIPAC" were deleted. In fact, almost all of the posts were deleted, including - again, twice - an important article by the respected MidEast scholar Dr. Juan Cole - seems that just wasn't going to be allowed. Some things aare supposed to be buried on pain of being called anti-Semitic. Here's what's left of that butchered thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
thread title: New Yorker: the Franklin scandal shows how the pro-Israel lobby AIPAC
And yes, I and others complained and pleaded about this blatant partisan censorship to no avail.

I wish I could post the excellent, scholarly article by Dr. Juan Cole, but that might get this thread censored too. As it is, I hope they don't stuff this iimportant post into the Israel/Palestine Forum backwater like they did mine.


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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. Wasn't Rosen found guilty with Franklin and Weissman?
But (Steven) Rosen arrived brandishing a new idea: that the organization could influence the outcome of policy disputes within the executive branchin particular, the Pentagon, the State Department, and the National Security Council.
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No Exit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #20
49. Tho Franklin pled guilty, I think Rosen & Weissman have to date
only been indicted. I hope their trials expose the whole messy AIPAC scandal to the world--and that AIPAC will be revealed for what it really is (something akin to a spy agency which actually seeks to control decisions within OUR government.)
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. Thanks for this fantastic post. Love the article nm
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #16
25. Another interesting thing to me
is how Bush invited Sharon to his place. Why his place? Why not the White House? :shrug:
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
19. They are very interfaced, damn Likkuydnics, doing damage to all
Edited on Fri Oct-14-05 12:59 AM by nadinbrzezinski
and no this is not anti israeli, I just highly dislike the Likkud and AIPAC \ PNAC gang, that said Iraq, Israel link is tertiary at best. This war is about power, sheer power... Israel is disposable if need be, just as we are... this should give all of us a warm fuzzy I know.
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #19
26. I don't know this word...
Likkuydnics? What's that?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. The Likkud is the Right Wing party in Isreal
they descend from teh Irgun Ben Leumi... the boys (and girls) behind the bombing of the Jersualem hotel in 1947... during teh war of independence in '48 they came this close to starting a civil war in the midst of that... they are ... at least some of them... radicals.

They are also one of the two major parties, them and labor have been part of the government since 1948.

Oh and over the last ten years the young ones to take over, have been radicalized even further. The young turk is bibi netanyahu, whose main formative experience was loosing his brother, a Colonel in the IDF during teh Entebbe raid.

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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. Thanks NadinB you're a wealth of information. nm
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
24. Here are some old articles on PNAC if it helps your research >
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
30. Prof. Juan Cole is extremely knowledgeable about AIPAC and the MidEast
Here is one of his posts on it at his web site. NOTE: this is NOT the post that was banned from Democratic Underground for talking mean about AIPAC.

http://www.juancole.com/2004/08/johnson-fbi-furious-at-...
Monday, August 30, 2004

Johnson: FBI Furious at Leak


(snip)

CNN reports that AIPAC, which passed confidential Pentagon documents and information from Franklin to the Israelis, holds 2000 meetings a year with US Senators and Congressmen, leading to the passage of an average of 100 pro-Israel pieces of legislation every year!

Some readers have suggested that I have exaggerated AIPAC's hold on the US Congress. But I have direct knowledge of senators and congressmen being afraid to speak out on Israeli issues because of AIPAC's reputation for targetting representatives for un-election if they dare do so. And, it is easy to check. Look in the Congressional record. Is there ever any speech given on the floor critical of Israeli policy, given by a senator or representative who goes on to win the next election? And look at the debates in every other parliament in the world; there are such criticisms elsewhere. The US Congress is being held hostage by a single-issue lobbying organization that often puts Israeli interests above US interests, as the spying scandal, and the attempts to thwart the prisoner exchange by Iran of high al-Qaeda operatives for Mujahedin-e Khalq terrorists demonstrate.

Indeed, you would expect the revelation of the FBI case to provoke congressional investigations of AIPAC. There won't be any, for obvious reasons.

Again, I underline that the American Jewish community does not support most AIPAC positions (a majority are much closer to Americans for Peace Now), and that this issue has to do with a small fanatical leadership of a specific lobbying organization, nothing more.

(snp)
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Can I talk mean about AIPAC
Edited on Fri Oct-14-05 12:59 AM by nadinbrzezinski
I have gone to temple and gotten clean, I will fast over it, but can I talk REALLY TALK MEAN ABOUT AIPAC?
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. I don't know, is it safe? Hey, what's your opinion on these
Edited on Fri Oct-14-05 01:07 AM by texpatriot2004
countries: Israel, Saudi Arabia, and the US. What do you think drives the political and military situations and connections?

Feel free to talk, but will we be shut down?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #32
37. there are no connections between the house of Saud
and Israel, but there are plenty between the House of Bush and the House of saud. That is the first thing.

Now Israel has been our client state since 1967, before 1967 we didn't care much for them, because they were damn commies... no I am not kidding. But israel became a client state because its location in the ME is strategic in value, and has been strategic in value since at least the time of Egypt, the First Empire.

It is a cross roads... but if, and I am serious, the US sees that it is becoming more of a problem than it is worth, (which many Israelis realize but Jewish Americans don't) this administration will sacrifice Israel.

Now to bush and the House of saud, the relationships are very close, daddy and the bin ladins were meeting on September 11, for example. And Salem bin Ladin was an investor in Arbusto Oil, george's first company. He also died in a plane wreck, surprise surprise... I wonder was it a Gulf Stream?

The best introduction to this dirty and odious relationship is F 911, serious.. House of Bush, House of Saud is also recommendable.
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. Why are we so invested in Israel? I don't get it. nm
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #33
38. It is a strategically significant piece of land
and during the cold war it was that critical
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #31
40. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. Trust me I know
and I do know some people who will defend AIPAC to their last breath, usually they are uninformed, and once their eyes are open they are even more rabid than Cole and they are Jews

It also comes from the fact that unless yuo know how to identify it... and many of the mods don't... anti isreali comments can be, on the surface, seem like they are antisemitic... knee jerk reaction and good propaganda. I knwo better, you know better... but hey, I've had threads removed as well
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No Exit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #40
50. Excellent post--
it is quite true that American Jews are NOT one and the same with the state of Israel, and in fact as a group are often opposed to policies of the state of Israel.
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #30
34. Dupe. nm
Edited on Fri Oct-14-05 01:17 AM by texpatriot2004
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
36. Please see the post on how Israeli leadership wants war with Iran and
was been preparing for it. I've posted a number of links in it. It's upthread here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

The Israeli faction allied with AIPAC claims that Iran will have nuclear bombs very soon if it doesn't have them already. This is counter to all good intelligence from the US (see the article about the leaked National Intelligence Estimate on Iran, linked to in the thread link below) as well as the international atomic intelligence community. Here's a thread with this info, both in the opening post and in the replies:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Thread title: Three extremely important threads on Iran nukes & the Bush agenda
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. Yes that faction is the Likkud, bibbi in particular
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #39
44. Yes, in addition to pushing Bush in person on "Project Daniel"
which is the pre-emptive strike on Iranian nuclear reactors and also an attempt at regime change, Sharon went on Fox TV (where else) with Rick Santorum for an HOUR talking about the supposed nuclear threat from Iran:

http://tv.yahoo.com/tvpdb?d=tvp&id=169351418&cf=0&lineu...
Iran: The Nuclear Threat
FNC 56 May 08 09:00pm
Special/Other, 60 Mins.

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, Sen. Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) and others discuss Iran's growing nuclear program.

Original Airdate: April 24, 2005.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. Personally I doubt it will go anywhere at this point
Sharon no longer has the power, bibi is houndng him, and here in the states, well we will need to do it with nukes, becuase we have nothing else, and at taht point MAD comes to mind
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #36
41. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. Paul Wolfowiz and Richard Perlse are very good friends
of Netanyahu and his clan of psycophtans
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
46. Don't forget too - the religious fanatics who see the end of the world
approaching - both in the US and a faction in Israel - believe that they have to put into place all the predictions of the Bible fotr the end times. That includes, among other things, the re-establishment of the Kingdom of Israel, including the Temple, and the deaths of - what was the number? - something like a third of the human race. Also lots of natural calamities, floods, earthquakes and fires.

Bush may well support this aspect of the agenda as well.

There was a fascinating article several years back in the New Yorker that told the story of a RW religious Christian fanatic in the US meeting up with RW religous Jewish fanatics in Israel because he had a herd of purebred cattle that routinely produced "pure red heifers without any white hairs." That's another of the predictions for the end times. He was setting up getting the cows to Israel where a pure red heifer would then be born as prophesied.

These people are crazy insane nuts and they have their finger on nuclear bomb triggers.
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 04:53 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. They are the worst. "Dangerous and Defeatist" and not of God.nt
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 06:16 AM
Response to Original message
48. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #48
53. From your post, that's the feeling I get too.
"Getting to the bottom of AIPAC is likely to show that a foreign government calls many of the shots for our government."
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #53
63. They don't, we have far more control than they do
what we have are ahem common interests for the extreme right on both countries, but Israel is disposable for the oily lot
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #48
54. SISMI mentioned in this article too
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
57. I hope so. AIPAC $$$$ are the reason Congressional members cannot admit
the war was illegal. Spies from Israel are way cool.
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #57
62. Interesting what's your theory on this.n.t
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
68. Chew on this? nm
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
70. I would certainly expect a Texan to know the "real inside story"
Edited on Fri Oct-14-05 07:44 PM by Coastie for Truth
Nope - it is not AIPAC - it is APIPAC

APIPAC = AMERICAN PETROLEUM INSTITUTE POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE

Let's look at APIPAC


    1. Link to API, Exxon Mobil's voice in Washington, Texaco Chevron's voice in Washington, Conoco Phillips' voice in Washington, BP's voice in Washington, even poor little Halliburton's voice in Washington.

    2. Link to API Political Action Committee


    3. Let's look at their National Energy Policy, as in secret meetings with Rove and Halliburton former CEO Cheney -- $3.04 point 9 a gallon. The policy is drill, drill, drill, drill everywhere, and tax breaks for drilling everywhere.

    4. And of course, what would a DC lobby be without Tax breaks for drilling everywhere

    5. As to Global Climate Change, and increasing severity of Hurricanes, and melting of the polar ice caps Junk Science.

    6. As to the Arab embargo of not just Israel, but of Jewish, US citizens, employed solely in the US, by US corporations in their US operations - why Don't punish the poor Saudis


And let's look at PNAC.


    Have you actually read all of those 120 some odd, turgid Adobe Acrobat PDF files? Here's a Link. Read them. I have.

    And when you get past William Kristol's wet dreams - it is all about projecting American power to assert hegemony over oil to assure American Soccer Moms gasoline to drive their little kiddoes around in Hummers.


It is all about AMERICAN BLOOD FOR OIL - and it has been going on for over 120 years -- read -- F. William Engdahl, A Century Of War: Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order and the Reviews.

I have only been in the (alternative, renewable, and green) energy industry for 30+ of the last 40+ years -- and before that I was a safety and environmental regulator.

Power of APIPAC - American petroleum Institute PAC - domestically


    1. Where did VP Cheney work before becoming VP?
      He was CEO of Halliburton


    2. What is Halliburton's business?
      They have grown by acquisitions, including KBR (Kellog-Brown and Root -- no, not the cereal company, the construction and oil field services, and chemical plant/petroleum refinery company). But at their core they started in - and are the big fish in the pond in-
        * Oil field services
        * Chemical plant/petroleum refinery construction
        * Major industrial construction projects.



    3. When was the last time Corporate Average Fuel Economy was raised?
      Under Jimmie Carter


    4. What is the Bush energy plan - to the extent there is one?
      * Waive envirnmental safeguards on drill and mining.
      * Waive environmental safeguards on burining coal and oil.
      * Build more refineries - with tax breaks and subsidized loans.
      * Open up wild lands to drilling and mining.
      * Biofuels -- talk, talk, talk (except corn based alcohol)
      * Hydrogen fuel (fuel cells) - I did my dissertation in that almost 40 years ago -- and I wont live to see it.
      * Tort protection for pollutants added to gasoline.


We are paying -- and AIPAC would not make a pimple on Turd Blossom's left butt cheek compared to APIPAC and the Saudis (See Unger, "House of Bush, House of Saud : The Secret Relationship Between the World's Two Most Powerful Dynasties").

And the power of petroleum in politics goes back before Israel (See William Engdahl, "A Century Of War : Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order" and Matthew Simmons, "Twilight in the Desert: The Coming Saudi Oil Shock and the World Economy").

I have only been in the renegade "alternative, renewable, and green" energy business for 30 plus years.

PS - I have lived in Port Arthur and Corpus Christi ;)



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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
74. Locking
Per I/P Guidelines requiring articles be based on a new or recent op-ed article.

Lithos
I/P Forum Moderator
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