Jewish group calls Iraq War protest anti-Israel

[pberq]

http://www.antiwar.com/blog/index.php?id=P2393

War Party Mobilizes to Protect Pelosi

The sickening manipulation of ethnic and religious passions by the War Party is nowhere more dramatically demonstrated than in this "rapid response alert" sent out by someone in the office of the Jewish Community Relations Council of San Francisco, the Peninsula , Marin, Sonoma Alameda and Contra Costa Counties:

"PRO-ISRAEL ACTIVISTS – SEND A MESSAGE OF SUPPORT TO CONGRESSWOMAN

NANCY PELOSI TO COUNTER AN ANTI-ISRAEL RALLY PLANNED ON

"Monday, September 26, Noon - outside Pelosi's office at the Federal Building - 450 Golden Gate, San Francisco.

"United for Peace & Justice and ANSWER, two Anti- Israel groups, will gather outside Nancy Pelosi's office at the Federal Building, to protest the Iraq War, and 'the atrocities and crimes of the Israeli state.'"

The email goes on to cite a quote that does not come from UJP or Code Pink, the two co-sponsoring organizations, in an effort to link the protest -- which is about the Iraq war, and nothing else -- to "anti-Israel" activities. This is a lie, and a shameless one. I saw the same nonsense going on at the San Francisco antiwar rally on Saturday: there was a group of counter-protesters holding Israeli flags. I went up to one of them and said: "What does any of this has to do with Israel? After all," I averred, "this demonstration is about the war, not Israel." The guy told me that he had gotten an email saying that an "anti-Israel" demonstration was going to take place, and that it was his duty to show up and show the flag.

It's interesting how the War Party lies, and manipulates ethnic-nationalist feeings to its advantage -- when, in reality, the overwhelming majority of Bay Area people of the Jewish faith support the antiwar position. This email is a fraud perpetrated on the Jewish community. What in the name of all that's holy is the Jewish Community Relations Council of the Bay Area doing acting as a shill for the War Party? An interesting question, which you might want to ask them yourself. Just call them up. Here's the number:

415-957-1551

[DemocratSinceBirth]

1. Your Title Is Inflammatory And Misleading..

The Jews aren't suggesting that being anti-Iraq war is tantamount to being anti-Israel as you suggest...

[KittyWampus]

28. True, but AIPAC are guilty of doing this. But then their agenda has

more to do with NeoCon political ideology then being jewish.

[sniffa]

2. so UPJ is anti-semetic too?

a Lot of ANSWER haters have to start hating the group they supposedLy support now, right?

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. The OP Says Most Jews Oppose The War

"It's interesting how the War Party lies, and manipulates ethnic-nationalist feeings to its advantage -- when, in reality, the overwhelming majority of Bay Area people of the Jewish faith support the antiwar position. This email is a fraud perpetrated on the Jewish community. What in the name of all that's holy is the Jewish Community Relations Council of the Bay Area doing acting as a shill for the War Party? An interesting question, which you might want to ask them yourself. Just call them up. Here's the number:"

[jackstraw45]

6. "These people"

Sounds like you just want to get rid of all us JEWS, huh?

[Coastie for Truth]

10. There are some self identified, self nominated erastz Progressive

who want to"purify" the Democratic Party and make it Judenrein.

That's what happens when the left and right both go full circle and meet at 180 degrees --

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. Geez That's Wonderful...

The Republicans have made inroads amomg every almost traditioanal Democratic group except Jews and African Americans..


Let's help them make inroads among another...


Besides the contributions Jews make to the party once one group leaves it makes it easier for the next group to leave...

[Coastie for Truth]

25. This story reprinted in antiwar.com

was not about an e-mail from the JCRC.

The e-mail was from the "SFVoice4Israel" (http://www.sfvoiceforisrael.org / and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sfvoice4israel /) which has no relationship whatsoever with the San Francisco JCRC.

The innuendo in the antiwar.com link:

The email goes on to cite a quote that does not come from UJP or Code Pink, the two co-sponsoring organizations, in an effort to link the protest -- which is about the Iraq war, and nothing else -- to "anti-Israel" activities. This is a lie, and a shameless one. I saw the same nonsense going on at the San Francisco antiwar rally on Saturday: there was a group of counter-protesters holding Israeli flags. I went up to one of them and said: "What does any of this has to do with Israel? After all," I averred, "this demonstration is about the war, not Israel." The guy told me that he had gotten an email saying that an "anti-Israel" demonstration was going to take place, and that it was his duty to show up and show the flag.

It's interesting how the War Party lies, and manipulates ethnic-nationalist feeings to its advantage -- when, in reality, the overwhelming majority of Bay Area people of the Jewish faith support the antiwar position. This email is a fraud perpetrated on the Jewish community. What in the name of all that's holy is the Jewish Community Relations Council of the Bay Area doing acting as a shill for the War Party? An interesting question, which you might want to ask them yourself.

is pure racism.

Goes to the credibility of antiwar.com and the original appender in antiwar.com.

[Clark2008]

12. Well, there are Jews that don't support Israel's tyrany, you know.

My fiance is one of them.

I don't think that person meant to come across as sounding like they wanted to get rid of Jews, but rather that some people need to separate their Jewish heritage from the Israeli STATE.

My finace no longer practices his religion because of what he witnessed on a trip to Israel. It sickened him that the state was abusing the religion to lord over the Palestinians, who are people, too - and some of whom, believe it or not, are Jewish!!

Please, can we separate the wonderful and peace-loving Jewish religion from the Goliath (no pun intended) that has become the Israel state? They're two separate things.

P.S. I just wanted to add that I don't support ANSWER's people yelling, "Death to Israel," either. There has to be a peaceful solution and I think that lies within the moderates, not the extremists - on both sides - who always seem to grab the power.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. Jews Should Treat Palestinians And All People With Respect...

If they are not than they are violating the principles of their religion....

To the larger question you can no more separate Jews from Israel than you can separate Muslims from Saudi Arabia...

[Clark2008]

17. Maybe not from the concept of Israel, but I know plenty

who don't support the state-sponsored tyrany over the Palestinians.

My fiance says its almost as bad as what was done TO the Jews prior to WWII. He's disappointed that many can't see that and didn't learn from being horribly treated not to treat people horribly.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. It's Awful

I agree 100%...

Anybody who mistreats a person on the basis of his race, ethnicity, religion, etcetera is a racist...

[Clark2008]

23. Wanna hear something funny and ironical?

My ex husband is a Muslim Palestinian. My future husband is Jewish. I'm Catholic (and a Southerner, which is odd).

My friends call me the one-woman UN.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. You Must Like Folks Who Can Trace Their Ancestry Back To Biblical Land

eom

[pberq]

38. Nice post!

You point to one of the most under-reported stories: the many Israelis who do not support the radical right-wing actions of their government.

[Colorado Blue]

42. I think calling Israel's relationship to the Palestinians "tyranny"

is more than a bit oversimplified.

There has been a war going on here for 57 years, not just between Israel and the Palestinians, but between Israel and the 22 states of the Arab League, preceded by decades of violence against Jews. Only Egypt and Jordan have any kind of peace treaty with Israel. Palestinian books don't even show the state of Israel on the map.

The withdrawal from Gaza was greeted by looting, the burning of synagogues, and barrages of rocket fire at a defenseless Israeli town. The Palestinian Covenant and militant groups like Hamas call for the utter destruction of Israel.

Maybe I'm getting old. But I just don't see things in black and white terms any more.

[idontwantaname]

44. that post seems pretty black and white to me. n/t

[Colorado Blue]

46. Sorry - it wasn't intended to be.

This is the problem when people throw terms like "tyranny" around.

It is extremely difficult to counterbalance them without sounding extreme oneself. But as you yourself must know, the situation is far more complex than the post to which I responded would seem to indicate. We need to be careful here. Word choice is important.

I realize that terms like "moderation" and "compromise" and "complexity" and "subtlety" are not as glamorous as "tyranny" but they're going to be more helpful in the long run.

Also, since you've responded to me - I'm concerned that you believe - as you expressed in another post- that it's only been "a couple of decades" since the creation of the Palestinian refugee situation. It's actually been 57 years and this population has grown from 700,000 or thereabouts, to well over 4 million. Supporting the right to return of over 4 million people, into a nation of 6 million, would seem to be suicidal. Shouldn't we be seeking solutions to their dilemma, which wouldn't destroy the state of Israel and devastate the people who live there?

Also, there IS the little fact of the nearly 1,000,000 Jewish refugees. If you are going to speak of the Palestinian people being expelled, then we should speak of the Jewish people who were expelled from their communities throughout the Middle East between 1948 and about 1970, communities which dated to Biblical times.

I think, however, that these issues are tangential to the anti-war issue - and that's why I self-deleted my initial response to you. Another time and place, perhaps?

[idontwantaname]

47. RoR

i think the right of return is a pivotal issue for many who view the one state solution as a solution which calls for an end to the state of israel.

i am no advocate for either solution. i would prefer the world to be one big peace loving state but i know this will never happen.

i am no historian either (however i will be meeting with Ilan Pappe in one month) which is why i decided upon "a couple decades" since dates seem to change depending on who you speak to...

it is a sobering fact when you look at the numbers of palestinian refugees israel would possible have to absorb... but one cannot say that "x" million jews occupied the region originally either... and therefore use the "x" million of palestinians as a counter argument.

in conclusion i apologize for this poor response but i have to run... and will conclude that those anti-war rallies are considered by answer to be anti-occupation rallies... which is my palestine comes up so much.

perhaps everyone should organize locally and speak to answer about their procedures... i know thats what were doing here(in LA... if youre in LA email me and we will meet)...

[Colorado Blue]

48. I would love to meet with you personally, and if I am in LA

I will certainly look you up. Thank you!

Meanwhile I hope the Left can avoid being splintered and polarized.

We really do need to hang together, especially here in the US, where we confront so many issues - issues of planetary scope, like global warming and pollution and the depletion of food and water and energy sources - that threaten our very existence. What happens in the US is very significant because of the sheer power and size of our economy and our military, but we must become cognizant that the so-called Third World is rapidly developing as well, and we must somehow try to narrow the gap between our outlook and theirs as our economies level out and begin to intermesh.

It is SO important to understand the economic dimensions that underly so many wars, including Iraq, and to try and ameliorate these before they threaten to erupt in wars of truly global scope. After all it has happened in the not-so-distant past and Iraq could be but the precursor of far worse, if we don't somehow evolve more rational policies and also develop renewable sources of energy. And, we MUST prioritize, recognizing that essentials like food, water and air have to take precedence over regional squabbles. This is critical in the Middle East, huge swathes of Africa and Asia and even the Southwestern US, where global warming and desertization threaten the water supply as well as the ability to grow food and nurture animals.

I think the vision of the Left must somehow clarify itself, and then not merely confront but try to work WITH the Right, and with the forces of religion also, which remain powerful even in this age of science and technology, to try and solve our problems before they overwhelm us.

***

PS, I would look forward to hearing of your meeting with Ilan Pappe.

Finally, as for the figures I quoted - those are merely the ones who, like the Palestinians in 1948, were forced, or chose, to flee their homes in wake of Israel's birth. Their descendants form a large percentage of Israel's population, they too are of Middle Eastern descent, and somehow or other we are going to have to be creative to ensure that the Palestinian refugees find better lives without destroying those of the Israelis. We can't do this if we're mad at each other! It will take the good will, hard work and creativity of many peoples and many nations to sort this out but it can - and must - be done.

[idontwantaname]

49. i would like nothing more than to work with you and coastie. n/t.

[KharmaTrain]

4. Michael Medved Was All Over This

Sorry to say, those C-SPAN sound bites are starting to find their way into right wing hate radio and nothing got their faster than the Pro-Palestinian speeches. Sure enough, earlier I caught Michael Medved's so-called "talk show" on Salem radio and sure enough he was equating the anti-war protestors with support for the PLO and "the people who blow up innocent people inside Israel".

This is not the forum to jump into the Israel debate or my feelings, but it is worth noting the consequences of the C-SPAN coverage of last Saturday's rally. Instead of demanding accountability and answers from this regime...and keeping them on the defensive, scumbags like Medved and others in the corporate media now have little soundbites and picture to play gotcha games that will make it appear that the anti-war movement is either anti-semetic or anti-Israel.

It's so frustrating, as so many of us want to focus on taking this regime and it's corporate media water-carriers to task for their lying and deception, but have to fight within our own ranks first and let them play us for fools again.

Peace...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. I Favor A Two State Solution

What I found disturbing about ANSWER is that in their tirade about Palestine there was no mention of Israel ...


They kept mentioning Palestine as if Israel didn't exist...As if you can just erase an historical fact...


I find that disturbing...

[KharmaTrain]

8. There's A Different Time, Place & Forum For This

I'm firmly with you on your thoughts...but this is not what the focus must be at this point. We have a polarized nation that doesn't need to be divided further by side issues that distract from developing the unity and sense of purpose needed to blast through the corporate media glass ceiling and turn this movement into a truly national one.

Many here who have been critical of ANSWER have been condemned as "Monday Morning Quarterbacks" and how we should put up or shut up. All well and good, but look at who one is picking fights with. There's a far bigger enemy out there...and they won't hesitate to help us eat our own. We've done it so well in the past and looks like it's an on-going condition.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. I Try Not To Participate In The ANSWER Threads..

I'm not a big fan of theirs but I find the "Kill The Witch" threads piling on....


I just think the OP's title is inflammatory and misleading...


Jews are just as torn about this war as any other group and I suspect most Israelis are too....

PNAC not withstanding it is not in America or Israel's interest to further inflame the Arab masses...

[KharmaTrain]

15. There's Too Much Confusion

Being Jewish I see many sides of this issue and how misunderstood many American Jews are on this matter. For many here, if you're Jewish and have a support of the State of Israel, you're a Likudnik or an AIPAC member...and you know where that leads. Or if you find any common cause with Palestinian self determination, then you're selling out to "terrorists". The issue has never been more polarized and purposely by those who gain from the confusion.

This place is like the water-cooler at the office. It's a place where you hear a lot of the gossip and news, but very little work gets done.

I had planned on going to D.C. until I posted here about information about groups and organized events and found there really wasn't any other than the sketchy list by UCFJ and the materials from ANSWWER. It seemed like this was turning into an "everything protest" rather than a rally...a negative rather than a positive. While I'm gladened to see the positive that did occur (and many weren't able to see/witness), there still is a lot to grow and learn from here. Hopefully we'll both be at the next rally and so will thousands, if not millions of others.

Cheers...

[ShockediSay]

9. Jesus said "Love your neighbor" Mark 12

Bob Novak said "What this is all really about is ... change of the political outlines of the Middle East more to Israel's benefit. That's what this has all been about. Since it's very hard to sell that to the American people they've done it on a weapons of mass destruction basis."

December 8, 2002
Meet the Press

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. I Didn't Know Robert "I Out CIA Agents" Novak Was Our Guru

Novak's old saw that the Jews always manipulate others to do their bidding is an ancient anti-semitic canard...

[Colorado Blue]

39. Amen. Thank you for pointing that out.

When antiwar rallies feature the sight of Jewish star and/or the Israeli flag with swastikas scrawled all over them, that's a very bad sign.

When rabbis are forbidden to speak, that's a very bad sign. True progressives will not align themselves with groups who espouse this sort of thing, who perpetrate racism and appear to call for war, holy or otherwise.

When Jews are afraid to go to antiwar rallies, or feel that helping the antiwar movement is a vote for the destruction of Israel - that's a very bad sign.

It's so important that we focus on the work that needs to be done - for peace, for the environment, for civil rights and economic and social justice - and not allow ourselves to be polarized like this, or fall prey to radicals. On a purely practical level, the right wing will exploit these divisions, use them to steal votes and further weaken the Democratic party. But morally, we also need to make sure we're on solid footing and that means being 100% against inflaming racial or religious bigotry.

[leftupnorth]

16. That's odd, I WAS THERE AND

i saw a lot of people with "Just another Jew for Peace" buttons, and I know of a bunch of Jews who oppose the actions of Israel. Anti- Semitic? NO! Anti-tyranny? Fuck YES!

[Parrothead Terp]

19. Once again ANSWER hijacks the march and the message......

I am a Jewish American who is against this war, in fact my friends that are jewish are all against this war. However, everytime there is an anti Iraq war rally, ANSWER comes in and turns this into a Israel/Palestine issue. Again, I am for a 2 state sollution, as are most of my friends. Don't be fooled though, ANSWER is not. Not once do they ever mention Israel in their speeches except to call them murderers and other nice stuff like this. They also never condemn the suicide bombers that walk into Israel and kill innocent women and children. In no way am I saying that Israel has done no wrong, or that they should not be blamed for some. However...ANSWER is not for peace in the middle east with two states, they want Israel gone. It is fair to claim that they are Anti-Israel...they are. At the last big anti-war rally in DC. I counted 13 straight speakers without one mention of the word Iraq. In fact, all I heard was chanting of free free Palestine.

Most Americans are now against this illegal war in Iraq. However, we are doing our side no favors by allowing the people of ANSWER to speak for the anti-war side. In fact, so many great orginizations helped sponsor this past weekends rally that could of got a great message across. The shame of it is that ANSWER sees any rally as theirs, and any message as theirs as well. We need the leaders of codepink and other groups to speak out against the bullying tactics of a hate laden organization such as ANSWER. It is time for us to face the fact that ANSWER is quickly becoming the left's answer the 700 club.

[sniffa]

21. what about a UPJ

"United for Peace & Justice and ANSWER, two Anti- Israel groups, will gather outside Nancy Pelosi's office at the Federal Building, to protest the Iraq War, and 'the atrocities and crimes of the Israeli state.'"

come on, get some venome out there for them too.

[seabeyond]

22. i am not jewish, i am american, and i agree with all you say. spot on

reason is in the majority. the majority knows it is going ot be working with two groups, not creating one in all bad, dismissing the other sides bad

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. I Don't Undertand

I understand what it means to be anti-Iraq war but I don't understabd what it means to be anti-Israel anymore than i understand what it means to be anti-Palestinian, anti-Saudi, anti-French etcetera...

[wtmusic]

27. Against the policies of the state of Israel nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. I Don't Lke Many Policies Of This Country

but I don't consider myself anti-American...

[wtmusic]

32. Hence the distinction

in the post "the State of Israel" vs. "Israel" --

"the Bush administration" vs. "USA"

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. That's Better..

You can see where I'm going...

Legitimate criticism of any country is acceptable and should even be encouraged... IMHO, criticism becomes illegitimate when it challenges a nation's existence...

[Coastie for Truth]

34. Also Antiwar.com and Jason Raimundo use creative innuendo.

They imply by innuendo that the e-mail came from the JCRC.

The e-mail came from a rightwing splinter group--

1. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sfvoice4israel /
2. http://www.sfvoiceforisrael.org /

in an e-mail sent out on 9/22.

I don't call Justin Raimundo or antiwar.com a shill for AlQaida, in contrast to

What in the name of all that's holy is the Jewish Community Relations Council of the Bay Area doing acting as a shill for the War Party? An interesting question, which you might want to ask them yourself.

Sloppy journalism, sloppy reportage, sloppy posting by Raimundo and antiwar.com

[pberq]

40. You bring up an important point.

To me, the reason ANSWER has been able to grab so much attention is the vacuum of leadership in the Democratic Party in terms of reflecting the position of the majority of Americans on the Iraq war.

Imagine if the Democratic leadership were talking more like Cindy Sheehan. ANSWER would lose a lot of publicity.

But I must say that given this situation, we must try to get everyone to work together to end this war, and address other issues separately.

[Colorado Blue]

43. Thank you. Well said.

[wtmusic]

26. The source of this mess is the quote 'the atrocities and crimes

of the Israeli state'.

Has that quote been vetted as coming from either ANSWER or UPJ? Nothing whatsoever on their websites.

[Coastie for Truth]

35. It has been vetted that the e-mail did NOT come from the SF JCRC

but from a right splinter group "SF Voice for Israel"---

1. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sfvoice4israel /
2. http://www.sfvoiceforisrael.org /

in an e-mail sent out on 9/22.

"SF Voice for Israel" has no ties whatsoever with the JCRC.

[pberq]

41. thank you for posting this correction! nt

[pberq]

50. I sent your correction to Justin Raimondo, and here is his response:

"I have to tell you that I called the JCRC and spoke to
the person responsible for sending out the email, a
woman whose first name is Dganit. She is an employee
of the JCRC office in San Francisco, and freely
acknowledged sending out the email."

[Coastie for Truth]

51. That is not what I was told by JCRC.

My e-mail was send by "dan" at "SFVoice4Israel" (http://www.sfvoiceforisrael.org / and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sfvoice4israel /). SF Voice 4 Israel has no relationship whatsoever with the San Francisco JCRC. This was verified to me in my phone call to the JCRC.

[0007]

30. Elcrapo

[Coastie for Truth]

36. I would recommend to one and all DUers--

DU:Beyond A.N.S.W.E.R: A View From Inside the March which has been cross-posted from Daily Kos - Beyond A.N.S.W.E.R.: A View from Inside the March and several other progressive web sites.

[idontwantaname]

37. i agree...

ANSWER needs to stop with the speakers before the march... especially the speakers who have nothing to say but yell and scream at us...

------------------------------------

it is not anti-israel to criticize its policies.
this cry for wolf is getting old and damages credibility of true anti-israel attacks.

the call for right of return for palestinians should be respected by those living in israel seeing as it was only a couple decades since the palestinians were expelled.

[Colorado Blue]

45. Self delete

no text

[Lithos]

52. Locking

Anti-war.com is not considered an appropriate site for use on DU.

Lithos
I/P Forum Moderator