Hunting (real) from the comfort of your home in the city...

[Squatch]

Just what we need...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6507424 /

HOUSTON - Hunters soon may be able to sit at their computers and blast away at animals on a Texas ranch via the Internet, a prospect that has state wildlife officials up in arms.

A controversial Web site, http:/www.live-shot.com, already offers target practice with a .22 caliber rifle and could soon let hunters shoot at deer, antelope and wild pigs, site creator John Underwood said on Tuesday.

Texas officials are not quite sure what to make of Underwood’s Web site, but may tweak existing laws to make sure Internet hunting does not get out of hand.

“This is the first one I’ve seen,” said Texas Parks and Wildlife Department wildlife director Mike Berger. “The current state statutes don’t cover this sort of thing.”

[Township75]

1. ONe thing I don't understand....

"“This is the first one I’ve seen,” said Texas Parks and Wildlife Department wildlife director Mike Berger. “The current state statutes don’t cover this sort of thing.”"

Wouldn't this be hunting without a license? Maybe one does not need a license to hunt on private land in TX.

[JHB]

2. How assinine can you get?

If you're going to hunt, HUNT!

If you just want to shoot things that come into view on your computer screen, buy one of the damn "hunter" programs.

Sheesh!

[marew]

3. disgusting!

[TX-RAT]

4. Really strange.

And from what i read perfectly legal.
This is sad. As long as it's a non-game animal that doesn't require a permit to hunt. They don't even have to have a non-resident license.

[Deb]

5. Can felons be given control of "shooting systems" in Texas?

"Members can then schedule a reserved session time which allows exclusive control of the shooting system to fire at a choice of various reactive targets."

I've seen nothing on the site, including the membership form, to indicate screening for felons. It seems to me that State firearms laws from the State a person was "shooting" from would apply.

There is also a person on site during the "session", Lordy, who insured this garbage?

[mosin]

7. Interesting issue of state and federal law

You raise an interesting issue. Is using a computer and mouse in Ohio to remotely operate a firearm in Texas being in possession of a firearm? Current laws clearly weren't written with this in mind, so it would depend on how broadly the language could be interpreted.

[slackmaster]

9. IMO your mouse or keyboard would legally be an extension of the trigger

Therefore it would be illegal for a convicted felon or other person not qualified to possess a firearm to use the online service.

Lordy, who insured this garbage?

Great question.

[Mick Knox]

24. How are they possessing a firearm?

[LinuxUser]

25. Good question

They are possessing a firearm in the sense that a firearm is the entire system, from the part that controls firing (the trigger) to the part that launches the bullet (barrel). So, this person in his living room is possessing the trigger component of it. Maybe.

Of course this is the kind of thing that makes a good court case and a court would have the final say of whether the remote firing control (computer interface) is the trigger and therefore part of the firearm. Who knows. The BATF would probably rule that the whole thing is not allowed, and a court may or may not agree with them. Who knows.

Can't they just use the same graphics engine from Doom III and skip the whole guns-and-animals component of it?

[Meritaten1]

6. What about public safety issues?

Aside from the immorality of butchering animals in the type of "canned hunt" environment described in the article, setting up a computerized killing zone would seem to implicate public safety considerations as well, e.g. what if children or other inadvertent bystanders wandered into the area? What assurance exists they would not be harmed in some way?

In some states, it is (or at least, it used to be) illegal to install automatically lethal devices to protect private property. Once upon a time, public safety concerns trumped private property interests.

It is also amazing that the authors of this computerized hunting scheme invoke "disabled" hunters and providing meat for "orphanages" as a justification for what is essentially a "canned" hunt. I suppose the site won't charge any money at all for this type of activity, but will engage in purely charitable work? They'll donate all the proceeds to worthy causes?

[slackmaster]

8. Your question is good but misdirected here

e.g. what if children or other inadvertent bystanders wandered into the area? What assurance exists they would not be harmed in some way?...

A valid concern IMO. Why don't you ask the people who are offering the service?



In some states, it is (or at least, it used to be) illegal to install automatically lethal devices to protect private property. Once upon a time, public safety concerns trumped private property interests.

I'm sure that's the case here in California, but this seems to be about weapons controlled by humans, not automatic.

FWIW I think this is a silly idea that will appeal to few people. I've never hunted but am not against it as long as people eat what they kill or kill for other legitimate reasons (in my book that does not include acquiring animal parts to put on display). If I ever do hunt I'll do it up close and personal, and if it's an edible species I'll dress it myself like a real hunter.

[pnutchuck]

15. You ever been to a deer lease in Texas?

I'm a resident of CA, but born and raised in Texas. I'm a Buddhist, but the rest of my family back there are gun toting, bible beating red-necks. My cousins got their first rifle when he was 6. And now they all have computers. My cousin recently broke his leg and is recovering still. I don't doubt he and the rest of his buddies would jump at the chance to shoot at live animals without ever having to leave the central heating of their home.

[slackmaster]

18. The idea of a "canned" hunt has zero appeal for me

I'd rather shoot at paper targets, car parts, or high explosive charges. (I always clean up my mess BTW.)

[NorthernSpy]

19. I read that last sentence wrong, to awful effect

If I ever do hunt I'll do it up close and personal, and if it's an edible species I'll dress it myself like a real hunter.

And so here I was thinking, Oh, gawd... he's going to shoot a deer and then dress it like a hunter? Talk about twisted...

But I eventually figured it out.

[slackmaster]

22. LMAO! - Reminds me of something that happened in Australia

Just after the end of World War II my stepfather was stationed in Australia, where he met his first wife. One day he was a passenger in a sports car driven by a local. The car struck a large kangaroo, which fell down motionless, apparently dead.

The driver leaned the 'roo against his car for a photo opportunity. The 'roo was not dead but dazed.

It woke up and hopped off - wearing the driver's tweed jacket and cap.

[Renew Deal]

10. Another article

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/16/life.hunting.reut/inde...

This is not a good idea.

[Squatch]

11. New episode of "Buckmasters"

"Welcome to this week's episode of Buckmasters. This time, we will follow Bill as he hunts the elusive Eland...

...Bill deftly makes his way from the kitchen, nearly stepping on a deadly rollerskate left by his kid. This just highlights one of the many dangers of hunting...

<whispering>...After hours of stalking the beast, <DING DONG>whew...doorbell...it's OK, only the mailman. Luckily, the Eland is not aware of the presence of these two predators...

...you can see that Bill's finger steadily hovers over the trigger, waiting for just the right moment to fire. Sweat and buck fever are building, so Bill takes a quick swig from his Miller High Life. Back to focusing on this crucial shot, Bill fires <CLICK of the mouse>...

<A week later>Well, we're here to talk to the ranch owner about that exciting hunt with Bill. Sir, can we see that magnificent animal? "Huh? Uh, sorry, no. Just finished off the last steak last night. I do have the skin, though...you want to see that?"

Wow, ladies and gentlemen, what a beautiful rug...truly a great hunt and great hunter...."

[MercutioATC]

12. Who tracks the deer if you just injure it?

I don't hunt, but I have friends who do. Four of them go to Alaska to hunt bear every year. Only one of them gets a bear tag...the other three track so they're sure they don't leave an injured animal out there.

Although I don't do it myself, I don't have a philosophical issue with hunting. Irresponsible hunting is another matter...

[Squatch]

13. You get to control one of these to track the deer...

[pnutchuck]

14. I can finally understand the EU's fear of America

Why don't they just set this up in Bush's axis of evil? Then he could sit back in the White House and shoot up terrorists himself. Hell, since the suspected terrorists in Cuba aren't covered by the Geneva Convention, he and Rummy could have a little sport shooting from the Oval Office.

I can't believe how far off the deep end these people with guns and technology are willing to go, these guys are nutballs....

[RamboLiberal]

27. Don't give the Pentagon any ideas

Might finally be a way to draft the Young Republicans, Freepers and Chickenhawks. They could kill "evildoers" from the comfort of their Lazy Boy!

[Trumanway]

16. Just about the time......

we get some attention to the positive side of firearms ownership..

SOME IDIOT THINKS UP SOME SCHEME TO SCREW IT UP

[NorthernSpy]

17. sick, stupid, and just plain-ass wrong

Leaving: Mild Cultural Decline. Now approaching: Full-Blown Decadence.

Just wait til someone hacks the system. The results could be interesting, to say the least.

[Kolesar]

20. I want to hunt the ultimate prey

I want to kill a hobo.

[LinuxUser]

21. Incredibly stupid, and illegal

The article talks about hunting statutes. Never mind whether this violates hunting laws or not, there's no way this is legal with the BATF. Basically, the BATF requires that guns be either "ordinary guns" , which are more specifically "Title 1" or "NFA weapons". "Ordinary guns" means ordinary rifles, shotguns and pistols, with certain limits about barrel length, overall size, and how many shots can be fired with a single pull of the trigger. "NFA weapons" includes everything else, like machineguns, short-barrel rifles, "gadget guns" (ie, pen guns, disguised guns, etc).

As you can imagine, NFA guns are subject to some very heavy-duty regulation. There is a community of NFA hobbiests who collect these rare and expensive and heavily-regulated things, but even taking an NFA gun accross state lines requires a filing with the BATF.

So, where I'm going with this is that I don't think such an arrangement of a rifle and a web server and a computer is a Title 1, or "ordinary gun". My reasoning is as follows: The BATF looks at the whole system you are using. If you get a plain old semi-auto rifle like a BAR hunting rifle, then you have an "ordinary gun". If you suddenly attach an electric motor with a cam to the trigger, so you can press a switch and it starts firing continuously, then you no longer have an ordinary gun, you have an NFA machinegun, which is illegal (unless you have certain permits which "ordinary civilians" basically can't get). Similarly, if you take an ordinary rifle and you build it into a guitar case in such a way that you can pull the trigger from outside the case, even though the rifle itself has not been modified, it is no longer an "ordinary gun" but is now a "gadget gun" and therefore under the NFA, not under Title 1.

So, with his arrangement, the firing system now consists of the ordinary rifle, hooked up to a servo motor of some kind and an electronic trigger mechanism which is hooked to a web server and the internet and a web browser. The web browser itself is now the firiring mechanism. This is a problem because a) it no longer fits the definition of an "ordinary rifle" and b) it is "readily convertible" to full auto. All you do is write a one-line shell-script to repeatedly send the "fire" command and it is full-auto. According to the BATF, any gun which is "readily convertible" is itself considered full-auto, and therefore highly regulated.

The bottom line, unless this guy got a letter from the BATF saying "it's ok to do all this", he may be asking for a lot of trouble. Foolish, I would say. And never mind the foolishness inherent in the idea itself.

[puttothesword]

23. I've always...

hated sport hunters and that's coming from an avid hunter. I think this is the empitome of why.

[-..__...]

26. I'm almost tempted to call a hoax on this one...

but lacking any clear evidence that it is, I'll hold off any further comment.