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jtb33 Donating Member (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 10:32 AM
Original message
Victim Made Seven 911 Calls Before Mass Murder
http://www.local6.com/news/3638171/detail.html

Just wonderful... Gee, I'm so glad that I have the phone and 911 to "protect" me and my family in case of an emergency.
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Worst Username Ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. Get up and get, get, get down
9-1-1 is a joke in your town.
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Wickerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
2. Great line in the article
Deputies were unaware that the seven phone calls would be followed by the mass murders, according to the report.

think they might ahve done something, then?
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. It's pretty obvious where the fault lies
The deputies lacked imagination.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. The Deputies Should Be Lacking JOBS
No excuse...
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gatlingforme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Well the probation officers assigned to Troy were fired because
he should have been in jail. That whole county looks to be a quagmire of mentally incompetent people - children of byb.
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Wcross Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. As I recall CO Liberal....
It sounds as if they had a sturdy door also from reading the original story (The attackers had to kick in the door).
If only they had a couple of dogs they would have tested your theory of home defense.



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TX-RAT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. think they might have done something, then?
What could they have done, might be a better question.
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Wickerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Worked with probation to see that the guys were off the street?
When they went out to roust them they should've run the kids then reported them to their probation officers. Maybe then something would've broke through the pinhead probation officer.

Be interested in your take - I assume you have followed this a bit? What could or couldn't the deputies have done?
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TX-RAT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. I believe only one was on probation.
Edited on Wed Aug-11-04 11:46 AM by TX-RAT
I also don't see where the deputy's ever talked to him, until after the homicides. Seems their only contact with the subjects, had to do with trespassing.
Really not enough info available, to give a good analysis. Would love to read the deputy's reports. And have more info on the 9-11 calls.
Not much help at all was I?

I do believe theres a probation officer, whos got some serious problems in future.


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enfield collector Donating Member (821 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. probably not much
squatting is a pretty minor crime and I'm sure the deputies had much more important duties to attend to.
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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. but, but, but!
Victorino already had a serious record of violent crime, and was on probation. Shouldn't that have clued them in that things could get mighty ugly as long as he was involved?


Mary
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TX-RAT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Did they know he was involved, before the homicides?
I never could tell from the story.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. but but but
Victorino already had a serious record of violent crime, and was on probation. Shouldn't that have clued them in that things could get mighty ugly as long as he was involved?

Aren't the prisons of the US full of people whose parole has been revoked, or probation breached, for incredibly picayune transgressions? Isn't trespass kinda one of those?

There are not uncommonly situations in which someone is likely to be damned if s/he does and damned if s/he doesn't. Child welfare interventions come to mind. Parole and probation interventions are another. The future and all its contingencies are not foreseeable, and no one even has perfect knowledge of the present.

I haven't been able to figure out what he was on probation for at the time of the homicides. Presumably not a violent crime; I can't imagine that he would have been sentenced to probation for that. Is imprisoning someone for trespassing while on probation for a property offence reasonable?

Do people not usually do things like live in other people's breezeways because they have no jobs and money?

Only in hindsight can the trespassing be seen as the precursor to the homicides. The retention of the possessions left behind was not justification for the assaults (obviously), but it was a necessary causal link. There was no way of anyone not involved in the situation foreseeing it occurring.

Now, when it reached *this* point (from one of the local6.com stories) --

The squatters warned Belanger that "they were going to come back there and beat her with a baseball bat when she was sleeping," ...
-- *that* is a threat to cause serious bodily harm or death, and *that* is something that should be taken notice of, and that something should have been done about. And if the problem was that the police did not know who the people they had rousted were, and so could not look for the person who had made the threat, then indeed, they were negligent in dealing with the trespass situation in the first place.

As to the diagnosis of "psychopath" being an automatic ticket to life imprisonment -- psychopathy is not actually a mental disease or defect, it is a personality disorder. It is not a basis for a "not guilty by reason of insanity" acquittal, and therefore not a basis for indefinite incarceration as "criminally insane". And not all, or even most, psychopaths are dangerously violent. There is simply no basis for preventively incarcerating psychopaths, generally, based on a diagnosis (which can be difficult and debatable) of psychopathy. And there isn't any basis for incarcerating anyone at all indefinitely, of course, unless some reason/necessity for doing so has been shown.

A more appropriate approach might be the one available in Canada, where an offender can be determined to be dangerous, regardless of whether his/her dangerousness arises from psychopathy or sheer bloody-mindedness, upon conviction for certain serious offences against the person and evidence of the likelihood of recidivism in that respect, and then incarcerated indefinitely.

I have to comment on the previous offence as well. Nothing I've glanced at has indicated what the precipitating reasons for the assault committed were (again, I say nothing about justification, and refer simply to the fact that there are reasons for everything anyone does, even if they're really bad ones).

But I'm minded of how we are often reminded hereabouts that in most homicides in the US, the victims are participants in illegal activities and were voluntarily at risk because of their activities and associations -- and how ordinary law-abiding people just aren't at such risk -- and how this fact is used to minimize the importance of those homicides in setting public policy.

If this offender's previous victim had fallen into that category, would the previous crime have been taken as an indication that he was a danger to ordinary members of the public? I'd say that if those who minimize the significance of all the homicides of "criminals" when it comes to setting public policy regarding firearms were to be consistent, they'd have to say "no".

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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-04 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. yes and no
Aren't the prisons of the US full of people whose parole has been revoked, or probation breached, for incredibly picayune transgressions? Isn't trespass kinda one of those?


Whether trespassing is a kinda picayune transgression depends largely on the particulars of the situation. If the trespasser is pot-smoking pacifist who hitchhiked in for a concert and needed a place to crash, then his is a transgression mainly of the nuisance variety. If, however, the trespasser is a violent career criminal who is in the habit of pulping the faces of people who make him angry, then good sense must tell us that we ought to miss no opportunity to put such a person under lock and key.

I am in favor of disparate treatment in these matters.



As to the diagnosis of "psychopath" being an automatic ticket to life imprisonment -- psychopathy is not actually a mental disease or defect, it is a personality disorder. It is not a basis for a "not guilty by reason of insanity" acquittal, and therefore not a basis for indefinite incarceration as "criminally insane". And not all, or even most, psychopaths are dangerously violent. There is simply no basis for preventively incarcerating psychopaths, generally, based on a diagnosis (which can be difficult and debatable) of psychopathy. And there isn't any basis for incarcerating anyone at all indefinitely, of course, unless some reason/necessity for doing so has been shown.


I'm not too sure who you're arguing with on this point. My comment to Slackmaster was that


(...)I would say that a violent criminal who meets the criteria for diagnosis as a psychopath should not ever be let out at all, whether he has actually killed anyone yet or not.


A "violent criminal" is a person known to have committed one or more violent offenses. I wasn't suggesting grabbing people off the street for testing, and then shipping them off to some kind of Devil's Island if they score badly.


Oh -- and I quite like Canada's dangerous offender legislation, and you make a valid observation regarding the extent to which the intramural violence among persons involved in criminal enterprise is (foolishly) taken in stride by us nonlumpens.


Mary
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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
5. good news: four probation officials FIRED!
Despite Victorino's recent arrest for battery, these 'servants of the public' delayed filing paperwork that would have led to the Xbox Murderer's timely re-imprisonment.

And now, they've been sacked:


TALLAHASSEE, Fla. Aug. 9, 2004 — The state fired a probation officer and three supervisors Monday for allegedly failing to keep custody of an ex-convict who is the lead figure in the vicious beating and stabbing deaths of six people last week.

Corrections Secretary James Crosby said the employees missed key opportunities to put Troy Victorino in jail, including a visit to his probation office within a day of Thursday's slayings.

Victorino, 27, was arrested July 29 on a battery charge, and the next day police notified probation officers, who were supposed to send a report to a judge requesting an arrest warrant for a probation violation within 48 hours, Crosby said. That paperwork was not sent until Friday, Crosby said.



http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20040809_1257.html



Good! If they can't be bothered to do their jobs, then there's certainly no point in keeping them on the payroll.


Mary
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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
9. Deltona 'Ringleader' Nearly Beat Man To Death In '96
Victorino had done it before!



Victorino attacked Michael Stern, who was 20-year-old at the time of the attack, with a walking stick in 1996.

Stern's face and all of his teeth were broken in the attack. Also, his ear was ripped off, according to the report.

"When I saw him in bed, I couldn't ever recognize my own son," the victim's mother Carol Stern said. "They needed pictures of him to know what he looked like because his head was the size of a basketball."

At the time, Stern pleaded with prosecutors to charge Victorino with attempted first-degree murder. However, Victorino went to jail on a lesser aggravated battery charge.


http://www.local6.com/news/3633449/detail.html


Mary
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Sounds like a scene from A Clockwork Orange
Edited on Wed Aug-11-04 11:57 AM by slackmaster
How the FUCK does someone get away with a brutal attack like that?

I think someone who batters a person and causes massive injuries should be forced to work off the medical expenses and then work to pay compensatory damages to the victim, all the while in jail, before he can even be considered for parole.
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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. I totally agree with that...
... and further, I would say that a violent criminal who meets the criteria for diagnosis as a psychopath should not ever be let out at all, whether he has actually killed anyone yet or not.

Psychopaths do not reform. That is not in their nature.


Mary
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CarinKaryn Donating Member (629 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
17. Overwork, lack of support probably prevented probation officers
from jumping on this guy. Maybe a change in Nov will improve their positions!
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