GUNS IN THE NEWS---July 23. 2004

[MrBenchley]

As CO Liberal sez:
Please try to adhere to the following voluntary guidelines, in order that we can have an orderly discussion of gun-related news topics:
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[MrBenchley]

1. Three men sentenced to life in prison for gun store murder (MS)

"JACKSON, Miss. - Three Hinds County men were sentenced to life in prison without parole for the 2002 robbery and shooting death of a gun store owner.
Circuit Judge Tomie T. Green handed down the sentences Thursday to Corey Bryant, 21, Skilah Anderson, 19, and Garner Brister Jr., 18. The three were convicted of capital murder.
"You reap what you sow," Green told the men after sentencing them."

http://www.sunherald.com/mld/thesunherald/9226062.htm

In more ways than one....

[TX-RAT]

3. Interesting

Most gun store owners around here, wear a gun while working.

[FeebMaster]

12. Why?

Does wearing a gun make you bulletproof?

[iverglas]

14. duh

Does wearing a gun make you bulletproof?

The answer to that -- given how likely it clearly is that the victim in this case was wearing a gun, not to mention all the guns he was surrounded with -- is obviously NO.

Which I kinda thought was kinda the point ...


typo fixed

[TX-RAT]

15. No

But according to some here,it makes you robbery proof.

[FeebMaster]

18. I don't recall ever seeing such a claim. (nt)

[CO Liberal]

31. Look Closer, Feeb....

You can see pro-gunners claiming that every day.

[FeebMaster]

33. I've seen lots of outrageous claims here.

Blood in the streets if concealed carry laws pass. Blood in the streets when the AWB sunsets. Blood in the streets. Blood in the streets.

Don't recall seeing anyone saying having a gun makes you robbery proof.

[MrBenchley]

2. Woman’s search uncovers body of fiance, 19 (IN)

"HAMMOND — A 19-year-old Hammond man’s fiancee found him dead of gunshot wounds in an abandoned building several days after he disappeared, according to police.
Ricardo Tenayuca suffered multiple gunshot wounds to the back in an incident police believe may be gang-related.
His fiance found him late Wednesday night in the basement of a boarded-up building at 5615 Walter Ave., according to Hammond police spokesman Lt. Richard Hoyda. "

http://www.post-trib.com/cgi-bin/pto-story/news/z1/07-23-04_z1_news_16.html

[MrBenchley]

4. 5-Year-Old Finds Family Pet Suffering From Gunshot Wounds (KY)

Now now, Timmy...Eddie Eagle can't stand crybabies....

"(HENRY COUNTY, Ky., July 22nd, 2004, 12:05 p.m.) -- Residents in one Kentuckiana subdivision say neighbors there are shooting wandering dogs and risking the lives of children. The police have been called, but so far they've done little to help. WAVE 3 Investigator Eric Flack reports.
The Calvert family gathered outside a vet's office Wednesday, waiting for word on the condition of their 9-month-old pit bull, Bruiser.
Five-year-old Michael Calvert found Bruiser after a neighbor shot him twice. The neighbor told police the pit bull was roaming the neighborhood and tried to catch him.
Michael's dad, Jeff Calvert, says Bruiser is a good-natured dog. "I wrestle around with him at home, and he stays mostly in the house. We play -- it's his (Michael's) best friend -- that dog wouldn't hurt nobody.""

http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=2073084&nav=0RZFP4cM

[NorthernSpy]

11. arrest the retards who let their pit bull run loose!

With fingers crossed, the Calverts return home, and neighbors like Francis Rogers help them piece together what happened. "It (the dog) just chased him (the shooter) from one point in the yard to his truck is what he said. So he never bit him, he never attacked him, he was just following him."

In other words, the man was actually being stalked by a pit bull who was allowed to run loose! And yet you -- and Mikey's retard parents -- are trying to tell us that this is really a story about bad gun owners and their evil guns...


Katrina had a plea for anyone thinking about shooting at other dogs. "Please don't shoot your guns. This is what happens. It could be your child, it could be someone in your family. This is part of my family."


Boo hoo! Look, lady: this is what happens when you get yourself a bully dog and then refuse to control it. If she doesn't want her dog shot, she shouldn't let it chase the neighbors.

The dog's injuries, the boy's grief, and the man's fear for his safety are all the result of letting a potentially dangerous dog roam free. The law should deal harshly with the Calverts, but I'm pretty sure it won't.


Michael's dad, Jeff Calvert, says Bruiser is a good-natured dog. "I wrestle around with him at home, and he stays mostly in the house. We play -- it's his (Michael's) best friend -- that dog wouldn't hurt nobody."


Aw, my pit bull wouldn't hurt a fly... Where have we heard that before? :eyes:


Mary

[iverglas]

17. pots and kettles

And devils and deep blue seas, for the moral arbiter.

Several years ago, there was a big hoo-hah here when the cops shot a dog.

It was the cops in our sister city, a different jurisdiction where the bars were open later, and the economy depended on drunks from my side of the river spending lots of time there. (Things have improved a little since.) The cops there were particularly stupid and vicious. (I got a traffic ticket once for calling two of them fucking morons; I didn't pay it, and I never got anything in the mail.)

This particular drunk was promenading an enormous dog -- one of those big brown smooth-coated things with shoulders almost as high as your own -- around the crowded bar strip at about 2 a.m. The cops told him to leash it. Quite reasonably. He refused. They told him again, he refused, they decided to take him into custody. The dog made objecting noises/motions. They shot the dog, dead. (Good move on a street crowded with drunks, too.)

Well, they were vilified and crucified in the media. Not the dog's fault, etc. Very true, very true. (Of course, nobody said it was. Vicious animal control is not subject to due process.)

Now, I knew both the dog and its master. They lived across the street from me. I'd never had any direct trouble with the dog, which was kept indoors, but its owner was a piece of shit. Just the usual run of the mill piece of shit -- the dog barked, the car horns honked, the souped-up motors roared, the parties went late. Your basic macho dirtball.

I said at the time that if I'd been forced to pick sides, the Barville cops or the piece of shit neighbour, I'd have shot myself.

Nonetheless -- two wrongs, etc.

One person creating a public nuisance/danger by allowing a pit bull to roam does not justify another person creating a public nuisance/danger by shooting at things in a residential neighbourhood.

The dog owners may not be best placed to complain, but that doesn't mean the rest of the world can't.

Where I'm at, it was common 20 years ago for dogs to be wandering around loose. It's never seen these days. Evolution may be an uneven and slow process, but it's steady.

[NorthernSpy]

21. what was he supposed to do?

One person creating a public nuisance/danger by allowing a pit bull to roam does not justify another person creating a public nuisance/danger by shooting at things in a residential neighbourhood.


The man who shot the dog didn't create a public danger in any reasonable sense. Oh, I suppose that he could have wound up shooting someone accidentally, just as he could have chosen not to shoot the dog, and then hit someone while driving his bleeding carcass to the hospital. And I further suppose that had he held his fire, the dog could have lost interest in attacking a full-grown man, and instead gone on to kill someone's toddler.


The people who let the dog loose put their neighbor in actual, immediate danger of losing life or limb. The actions he took in self defense were appropriate to the threat, saved him from likely injury, and did not necessarily put the public in more danger than choosing not to shoot would have.



The dog owners may not be best placed to complain, but that doesn't mean the rest of the world can't.

The rest of the world, to its credit, has so far declined to charge the man with a crime. So they haven't yet got any complaints that matter.


Mary

[iverglas]

26. well ...

The link had crashed my netscape, so I was going on the bit quoted. Now, through the magic of IE, I've read the transcript and watched the news broadcast.

The neighbor told police the pit bull was roaming the neighborhood and tried to catch him. <I believe it's the neighbour who's trying to catch the dog.>

... "It (the dog) just chased him (the shooter) from one point in the yard to his truck is what he said. So he never bit him, he never attacked him, he was just following him."

We unsuccessfully tried to get more details from the neighbor who shot Bruiser, Barry Leighy. When asked if he thought it was a good idea to shoot at animals with children nearby, his response was: "I ain't got nothing to say. You're on my property. I think you'd better head out."

So really,

he could have chosen not to shoot the dog, and then hit someone while driving his bleeding carcass to the hospital. And I further suppose that had he held his fire, the dog could have lost interest in attacking a full-grown man, and instead gone on to kill someone's toddler.

seems ever so slightly hyperbolic, given that the man himself has not said that the dog attacked him, and nobody else seems to have alleged such attacks. And of course it's legal in that jurisdiction to shoot a dog *only* when it's attacking.

I am absolutely no fan of people who allow their dogs to roam, or people who own pit bulls, let alone people who are both. But the enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend. And 9-month-old dogs chasing/following (who knows?) someone really are quite possibly playing.


The rest of the world, to its credit, has so far declined to charge the man with a crime. So they haven't yet got any complaints that matter.

Now, I'm hesitating to have much of an opinion about the whole thing, you see, because it all transpired in rural Kentucky and that's a long way removed, in a whole lot of ways, from me. Me, I'd call the municipal authorities and firmly request that action be taken about the dog. If it weren't, I'd email my city councillor (a personal friend) and request her intervention and be quite sure of getting it. If the culprits were renters, I'd write to their landlord and threaten to sue him if he didn't put an end to the nuisance being caused by his tenants (it worked like a charm to get rid of the pimps and drug dealers on the corner). If the culprits were homeowners, I'd threaten to sue them.

But from looking at the cast of characters in this tale, and seeing their milieu, I think it would have probably been asking a bit much to expect the dog-shooter to have done those sorts of things. He isn't a big-city lawyer, and he doesn't seem to have any authorities around who give a shit about his problems.

But ... does that mean that he just gets carte blanche to start shooting at things? Maybe not by me.

What I find interesting about the statement of yours I quoted above is that you kinda did the opposite of what I did. I'm trying not to convict the dog-shooter according to my rather class-based criteria. You seem to be judging the people complaining about the shooting by just such criteria: they're pretty obviously working-class, rural, unsophisticated ... and they don't matter?

The video and transcript of the story made it quite plain that there were neighbours complaining about not just this dog shooting, but the other successful and attempted dog-shootings that had been occurring. They *are* concerned about their kids getting shot, and this incident is not the first time they have brought those concerns to the authorities' attention. And they're rural Kentuckians, not likely members of the VPC or anything effete like that.

Am I hearing you say that because the authorities have not taken their concerns seriously, we can say that they and their complaints don't matter? And is that not maybe just a tad, well, not something I'd expect you to say? I wouldn't have expected you to evaluate anybody or their complaints according to whether the part of the rest of the world that makes such decisions acts on them.

[NorthernSpy]

29. complaints and complainers

The complainers are:

The people who own the dog, and whose negligence brought the entire situation about.

One neighbor, who admits that the dog was "chasing" the man immediately before he fired the shots.


As far as the man who shot the dog is concerned, their complaints don't matter, because:

The authorities do not currently believe that he did anything illegal or actionable. In other words, these complaints are not of the kind that could lead to him losing his pay or getting thrown in the slammer. Until the complainers have become complainants, it's all about bad neighbors and their feeelings, and he may not wish to pay attention to that sort of thing.


Now, as far as I'm concerned, the complaints do not matter, because:

The dog owners have no business complaining in the first place. The whole sorry deal is their fault.

Their friend doesn't report having done anything to aid the man who was being chased, so he can bloody well keep his trap shut too.


Am I hearing you say that because the authorities have not taken their concerns seriously, we can say that they and their complaints don't matter?


No, you're hearing yourself say it. I said that the complaints made do not matter. I didn't say that the persons making the complaints did not matter as persons, or that their class of persons (rural, working class) doesn't matter as a class.

Which you know, I'm sure.



Mary

[iverglas]

32. reading in

You did watch the tape, right?

One neighbor, who admits that the dog was "chasing" the man immediately before he fired the shots.

Actually, that neighbour, didn't "admit" anything. He reported what the dog-shooter had said: he (the neighbour) said

"It (the dog) just chased him (the shooter) from one point in the yard to his truck is what he said. So he never bit him, he never attacked him, he was just following him, that's what he said"

The italicized bit isn't reproduced in the print version, but is audible on the tape. (I'm reporting what I heard, which we know isn't my forte, so I urge anyone interested to listen for him/herself and correct me if necessary. In any event, the first "is what he said", underlined above, is in the print version. It's a hearsay report, not an eye-witness report, from every indication; it is not proof of what happened.)

Their friend doesn't report having done anything to aid the man who was being chased, so he can bloody well keep his trap shut too.

Their friend doesn't report having seen the incident occur, as I heard it, so I don't quite know how he could have been expected to have done anything to aid the dog-shooter.


The complainers are:
The people who own the dog, and whose negligence brought the entire situation about.
One neighbor, who admits that the dog was "chasing" the man immediately before he fired the shots.

The news report clearly stated that there had been two previous incidents in the neighbourhood, one involving someone shooting a dog and one involving someone shooting at a dog, and that there had been children in the vicinity in all cases. The conclusion that the only people who have complained are the dog owners in this one case and their neighbour seems to be built on rather shaky ground, and more inconsistent than consistent with the facts.

No, you're hearing yourself say it. I said that the complaints made do not matter.

Well, yes you did. The problem is that your present characterization of the complaints doesn't seem to be consistent with the facts. I had read "complaints", in what you said, as referring to actual complaints and the actual background to them, as I understood them from the news report, not complaints whose nature and background were what you are now ascribing to them.

And really, what you are still saying is that the complaints don't matter because of who made them (based on your representation of who made them, which I don't think is accurate), which is what I was saying. I just misapprehended your problems with the complainers, I guess, which I don't find surprising, and don't agree amounts to reading-in on my part, let alone misrepresentation on my part. Your problem was obviously with the people making the complaints, as you have now confirmed. It's just that the grounds on which you have problems with them - their limited number and absence of moral authority - aren't very solid. I had no way of knowing that your problem with them was that they were limited to the ones you name (they plainly aren't) or that one of them had lost his moral authority for complaining by having done nothing to assist the dog-chasee (which doesn't appear to be the case). The complainers actually seem to be several, the others being unknown to us, all of whom appear to be concerned about children's safety, there being no grounds for suggesting that any of them are without moral authority to complain.

My main point still is that the fact that it is a pot calling a kettle black doesn't mean that the kettle is not black.

And I'm not saying that the dog in question did not attack the dog-shooter. I'm simply saying that the evidence, including his own statements as reported, seems contradictory and not very supportive of that allegation, and that you seem, for whatever reason, to be in a bit of a rush to judgment.

[TX-RAT]

23. (I got a traffic ticket once for calling two of them fucking morons)

You sweet talker you.

[MrBenchley]

5. 4-Year-Old Shot In Head, Police Say (FL)

"HOMESTEAD, Fla. -- A 4-year-old girl was shot and killed Thursday inside a home in Homestead, police say.
Liderica Davis, 4, died Thursday after being shot in the head, according to police. Tracy Lane, the child's mother, told Local 10 News the shooting was an accident and that her 5-year-old son fired the fatal shot.
"My son, they was playing with their toys, and he found a gun, and accidentally shot my daughter in the head," Lane said."

http://www.local10.com/news/3568582/detail.html

Another glorious celebration of the "Second Amendment"

[RamboLiberal]

6. Showing off his gun, new cop shoots teen - NYC

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/215011p-185064c.html

A rookie cop accidentally shot his girlfriend's teenage sister while showing off his gun inside a Queens apartment early yesterday, police said.
A single round was fired from the cop's service weapon, hitting the 18-year-old victim in the chest around 2:30 a.m. as her sister watched, a law enforcement source said.

The teen was in guarded condition at Jamaica Hospital yesterday.

<snip>

"The victim's account is that they were examining the service revolver and it discharged," a law enforcement source said.

And one rant - I seriously doubt it was a revolver - majority of cops have semi-autos, mostly Sigs or Glocks or another brand. I believe NY cops get Glocks. I wish every news reporter would have drilled in to their heads not to write like its 30 years ago and cops all carried "service revolvers". Call them pistols already!

[MrBenchley]

7. Man charged in shooting of dog (NY)

"BINGHAMTON, N.Y. Police have charged a 50-year-old man with reckless endangerment, accusing him of shooting a dog as it was walked last month along the banks of the Chenango River.
Police say Edward M. Lovell owns a nearby Binghamton home and may have been target shooting in his backyard with a small-caliber weapon when the dog was hit. He was arraigned yesterday on the misdemeanor -- the result of a tip to police -- and released.
June Higgins was walking her three dogs by the river early on the evening of June 19th, accompanied by a seven-year-old girl, when a bullet hit one dog under the eye. The pet is recovering."

Guess that's what "law abiding responsible gun owners" fall back on when their fantasies about foiling armed robberies with their popgun aren't enough.

[MrBenchley]

8. Shooting suspect arrested in Florida

"COVENTRY - The man suspected in a local shooting incident was apprehended on a warrant in Florida on Tuesday.
Coventry police said they will be filing for the extradition of Kevin M. Mahoney, 21, formerly of Winthrop Avenue, Providence. The arrest warrant was obtained on Monday for the alleged crimes of assault with the intent to murder and assault with a dangerous weapon.
Mahoney's arrest followed four days after the shooting in a Coventry neighborhood. The 19-year-old victim, Joseph Santagata of Warwick, remained at Kent Hospital in fair condition on Tuesday.
Santagata was shot in the back at 1:26 a.m. last Friday morning on Newell Court, according to police. Santagata's friend, a 20-year-old unidentified man, knocked on the door of a nearby home and the resident contacted Coventry police. Santagata was transported to Kent Hospital for treatment. The male suspect had fled the area prior to the arrival of the police."

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=12451959&BRD=1720&PAG=461&dept_id=74554&rfi=6

[MrBenchley]

9. Charges in taco shooting upgraded to murder after victim dies

Talk about your all-time BAD headline writing....

"GREENVILLE, S.C. -- Charges against a man accused of shooting a bystander during a fight at a taco stand last weekend have been upgraded to murder after the victim died.
Marlon A. Rivera, 29, got into a fight with another man at the Berea taco stand early Sunday morning, according to an arrest warrant.
Shortly after bystanders broke up the fight, Rivera pulled out a gun and fired two shots, missing his intended target, police said.
But one of the bullets struck Wilfrido Solis-Monge, 37, who was part of a large crowd gathered in the parking lot, Greenville County Sheriff's Sgt. Shea Smith said. He died a day later."

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040723/APN/407230726

[Van23]

10. Robbery Suspect Dies After Shootout With Waycross Clerk

WAYCROSS, Ga. -- Authorities say a robbery attempt ended with one of the suspects being fatally shot by the intended victim.

Roy Rhodes, a liquor store worker, told investigators he was almost tho his home on Augusta Avenue early Wednesday when he heard someone behind him.

http://www.news4jax.com/news4georgia/3563573/detail.html

[NorthernSpy]

22. also at your link: Trash Bin Explodes; Military Ordnance Found In Garbage

Police in Savannah were evacuating homes Thursday morning after a trash bin containing military-type ordnance exploded.

Workers were dumping the container into the back of a garbage truck when it exploded.

Savannah police spokesman Bucky Burnsed said no one was injured in the 6:50 a.m. explosion and that the truck driver is "lucky to be alive" after the blast.


http://www.news4jax.com/news4georgia/3565971/detail.html


My questions:


What exactly was this 'military ordnance'?

Why did it explode?

Who in hell throws such things away in the trash?


:shrug:


Mary

[iverglas]

27. do you suppose

one of the thousands of planes involved in the London Blitz all those years ago went astray and dropped its ordnance way off target? Unexploded German bombs are still found around England from time to time ...

Just because I love this site: http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/MOLsite/exhibits/blitz/




And then of course there's all the stuff still churning around in Europe from WWII.

But yeah, Savannah?

[NorthernSpy]

30. reaping the Iron Harvest

Yeah, I've read some stuff about that. Horrible -- and places like Vietnam and Angola have it even worse in that regard, what with all the abandoned minefields and such.

About Savannah, though... It's amazing what ends up in the trash. An unsuspecting person cleans out the attic, and the next day somebody's collection of dangerous crap is sitting on a public sidewalk, awaiting its trip to the town dump. Did you read the "Atomic Boy" story in Harpers a few years back?


Mary

[iverglas]

34. harperses harperses everywhere

Tell me when the story was, and I'll find the issue somewhere in a pile in my bedroom. I don't recall it offhand. Damn Harpers doesn't put stuff on line.

I think people who post stuff in GITN should be required to provide regular updates. You must now undertake to let us know what that Savannah garbage explosion was all about.

Friday ends, dinner calls.

[Van23]

13. A bullet too many? (CA)

Harvey Williams is a vigilante hero.

That is the opinion of many of his Western Addition neighbors, who are angry that Williams faces assault with a deadly weapon charges after shooting a gun-toting crook caught intruding in his Fell Street home.

http://www.sfexaminer.com/article/index.cfm/i/072204n_burglar

[MrBenchley]

16. Call to action marks vigil after shootings (NJ)

"The Fairview section of Camden, in the midst of a renaissance after a steady decline, has long enjoyed a reputation for relative calm in this stormy city.
Then on Saturday, two men firing an AK-47 assault rifle and a sawed-off shotgun from the porch of an abandoned house sprayed the neighborhood Wawa with gunfire, killing one man and wounding three other people.
Fairview residents, upset over what they see as an unchecked rise in crime and violence that could derail the neighborhood's turnaround, responded to the shootings with a candlelight vigil last night."

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/local/9222682.htm

[MrBenchley]

19. Three Wounded In Two Drive-By Shootings (MA)

"Three people were wounded in two separate drive-by shootings early Thursday morning in New Bedford.
Police said a 29-year-old man was shot in the legs outside a home on Nye Street about 1:38 a.m. Investigators said the shots came from a gold car that sped away.
Less than an hour earlier, police said a red van drove into Magnet Park and someone started shooting into a crowd. A 14-year-old was hit in the right ankle. A 16-year-old was shot in the right thigh."

http://www.turnto10.com/news/3565543/detail.html

[MrBenchley]

20. Two injured in separate shootings (IL)

"Burbank police are investigating two apparently unrelated early-morning shootings.
In the first incident, a man suffered gunshot wounds and four vehicles were damaged when a masked gunman started shooting at the driver of a sport-utility vehicle Wednesday, Burbank police said.
In a separate shooting, a woman suffered a gunshot wound to the shoulder when she was shot in her home Thursday."

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/yrtwn/south/233syt5.htm

[MrBenchley]

24. Killer gets life in prison (SC)

"In the time it took to pump and fire a shotgun four times, Chris Santiago sealed his future.
Santiago, 22, was sentenced to life in prison with no possibility of parole Wednesday night after a jury convicted him of murder and using a firearm during the commission of a violent crime.
Santiago killed the father of his ex-girlfriend Aug. 9, 2002, at a Firethorn Lane home on Hilton Head Island."

http://www.lowcountrynow.com/stories/072304/LOCverdict.shtml

[MrBenchley]

25. Child Shot In West Philadelphia

Email This Story
Print This Story
"PHILADELPHIA (KYW) A child was shot on the porch of his home in West Philadelphia Thursday.
CBS 3's Todd Quinones reports the shooting occurred on the 6200 block of Callowhill Street just after 4 p.m.
According to police, the child was playing with friends when two groups of people in two separate cars began shooting at each other.
Quinones has learned that at least a dozen shots were fired, one of which struck the child in the leg. He reports that this has been the second child shot in the past two days."

http://kyw.com/Local%20News/local_story_204184850.html

[MrBenchley]

28. Videotape Shows 3-Year Old Son Playing With Gun (VA)

Seems like the Old Dominion has become "Gun Owning Idiot Central"--
Are you stupider than shit? Then Virginia wants you and your gun!

"On the video, the boy is seen playing with the gun - and aiming it at his face - before putting the weapon down.
The video shows the boy outside with his parents who, along with an adult friend, were shooting rifles.
At one point, the adults - carrying the weapons they've fired - leave the boy to examine a target. At that point, the video shows the boy at the rear of a car with an open trunk. Two other rifles leaning against the exterior of the car are visible near the boy - who reaches into the trunk and produces a handgun.
The boy plays with handgun before eventually returning it to the trunk."

http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=2077307&nav=23iiP5ZQ

Say hello to the folks, maw.


Yeah, there's a voter we should be pandering to...