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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 12:39 AM
Original message
GUNS IN THE NEWS - March 25, 2004
Please try to adhere to the following voluntary guidelines, in order that we can have an orderly discussion of gun-related news topics:

1 - Feel free to add any CURRENT stories to this thread by replying to this message. In order to be considered current, stories should have been originally posted on the Internet within the previous 24 hours, or provide follow-up to a story that was previously posted on the J/PS board. On Mondays (since many people do not log in to DU over the weekend), stories can be posted from Saturday, Sunday, or Monday.

2 - Both pro-gun and anti-gun stories, editorials, and press releases are welcome in this thread, as long as they're current. Please do not post links to items from a few years back that support your position.

3 - Bear in mind that any links to extremely right-wing sites (such as Newsmax, CNS, or the Washington Times) or intentionally pro-gun or pro-control sites (such as the NRA or the Brady Campaign) are not considered reliable sources by many DU-ers. If at all possible, try to find a link for your story from a more mainstream source, such as a general-circulation newspaper or magazine site. If you choose to use a slanted site, be prepared for any negative feedback you may receive.

4 - Do not change story titles. In other words, if the Oskosh Gazette's web site runs a story titled "Two Killed in Holdup", the title of your message should read "Two Killed in Holdup". Don't change it to "Gun Owner Kills Two People", or anything else that changes the meaning of the story.

5 - If it's not clear from the title where the story occurred, add the city, state, or country in parentheses after the title.

6 - The person adding a news story to the "GITN" thread is allowed (and encouraged) to comment on that story, indicating their position on the topic being discussed. These comments can appear either at the beginning or end of the post; if possible, place comments in a different typeface so readers can separate the comments from the story. Others who wish to comment on a posted story can do so by replying to that story; this allows other readers to follow the comments by scrolling through the subthread.

7 - Please direct your comments to the story, rather than attacking the person posting the story or any person responding to the story. In accordance with DU rules, any message that appears to be a personal attack against another DU-er or a violation of any other DU rule will be reported to the moderators.

8 - If you object to these guidelines, do everyone else a favor and go to another thread.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 06:52 AM
Response to Original message
1. Admitted addict gets 8 years (AK)
"A 20-year-old man who brought a loaded pistol and crack cocaine onto Bartlett High School grounds in September admitted a crack cocaine addiction at his sentencing hearing Monday and asked for help before he was sentenced to serve more than eight years in prison.
Singleton concluded Dorsey probably does use cocaine, but he said Dorsey also probably sells cocaine.
"He sells with some success," the judge said. "He drives a Cadillac Escalade."
An officer stopped him in his car and arrested him for criminal trespass. Prosecutors said he had eight individually wrapped rocks of crack cocaine, a loaded Glock 9 mm semiautomatic handgun and about $400 in cash in his car."

http://www.adn.com/alaska/story/4887228p-4822742c.html
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. "He drives a Cadillac Escalade."
I'll think of this story every time I see a Cadillac Escalade, and wonder where they got the money for it.
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Narf Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. Good riddance!
Anybody caught selling drugs to kids, or attempting to sell drugs to kids, should be locked up for life, with no possibility of parole.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 07:02 AM
Response to Original message
2. Slaying ends with suicide (RI)
"A doctoral candidate in chemistry led the police on a 25-mile chase yesterday with the severed head of his girlfriend on the front seat before crashing in Cranston and killing himself as officers smashed his windows with batons, the police and a witness say.
Shechtman had shot himself -- once in the head, the state medical examiner would later confirm, with a 9mm pistol.
The police recovered the woman's head in a trash bag, along with a fully loaded Glock, an extra magazine clip and two knives. "

http://www.projo.com/news/content/projo_20040325_chase2...
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 07:10 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. America Sure Was a Safer Place...
...because THIS imbecile had a gun.
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Pert_UK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Agreed....
If he hadn't have had a gun then he'd have never been able to shoot himself in the head with it, thus removing himself from the equation and making America safer.

P.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Unfortunately...
...he killed someone else before he killed himself.

Right now, I'm waiting for one of the pro-gunners to weigh in in the guy's defense - "But he didn't SHOOT his girlfriend - he BEHEADED her!!! Why aren't you calling for the banning of knives and hatchets??"

Some pro-gunners will do anything and say anything to defend any low-life scum who uses a gun....
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. You can almost hear them moaning...
"When guns are outlaws, only outlaws will be able to ride around with their girlfriend's decapitated head in the front seat..."
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Narf Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. I'm not clear on what the gun had to do with the dead girl?
He didn't decapitate the girl with the gun. The fact that he shot himself to avoid capture is incidental to the original crime....murdering his girlfriend and chopping off her head, as well as evading the police. If he didn't have a gun he still could have killed the girl and still could have ran from the police.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Ask them at the Bullseye gun shop
why don't you...
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Narf Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #18
26. C'mon, you can do better than that.
What could Bullseye gun shop possibly have to do with this man killing his girlfriend and hacking off her head? Did someone from Bullseye use mind control rays to make him commit this crime?
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. I can do all sorts of things
Edited on Thu Mar-25-04 10:15 AM by MrBenchley
including use a search engine.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. c'mon, Benchley

Are you actually interested in reasoned debate..
or are you just here looking to argue?


Fess up. Come clean. Admit it.

If that is the case please let me know so I can move on to more important things.

I'd advise no time-wasting, and watch out for swinging doors and the like.

.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. One wonders what "more important things" there are
than sticking up for the Bullseye gun shop, misrepresenting liabillty law, etc....


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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. That was my reaction to CO's comment as well
A toast to the post!

:toast:
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Narf Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. It's his head, he should be able to shoot it if he so choses.
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Narf Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-26-04 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #4
81. In your opinion...
Who, if anyone, in America SHOULD be allowed to own and carry guns?
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #2
21. I'm taking bets

Who will volunteer to let us know when they find the victim's *body*?

And who wants to bet what the manner of death was?

I'm not very familiar with betting concepts, but I'm betting that a bet that she was shot won't be paying a huge return.

.
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demsrule4life Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #21
33. I worked a case once
Husband found out who his wifes lover was. Husband finds lover, husband stabs lover to death. Husband cuts off lovers head. Husband places lovers head into a "Head" gym bag. Husbands wife was in the hosptial due to pregnancy problems (lovers baby) Husband enters wife's hospital room. Husband takes head out of gym bag and drops the head onto the wife's lap. Husband tells wife "now you won't ever forget him". Husband gets life in prison. Oh and no guns involved.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 11:14 AM
Original message
nasty

I'll bet that case didn't take a lot of "work". ;)

Of course, in the case at hand right there, we know there was a gun, and what I'm betting is that it was "involved".

I'm just sayin' I'd be surprised if the individual in question had gone to all the trouble of strangling or knifing or suffocating or drowning his wife, when he had that gun right handy.

.
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MrSandman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #21
74. I volunteer...
The cause of her death was also released by the state medical examiner's office in Connecticut, which had performed an autopsy. She died from asphyxiation due to neck compression, according to the medical examiner, and not from decapitation.



http://www.projo.com/news/content/projo_20040325_chase2...
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #74
76. wot a dingbat
Two functioning handguns, and he strangled her. Actually, it suggests an impulsive, unplanned and likely unintended killing.

Long and interesting article.

That same year <1993> Shechtman was arrested for a felony. Then 21, he was living at his parents' home when the police were called to the house because the security alarm had been tripped.

Police officers went inside through an open door and searched for an intruder. According to a police report, they didn't find anyone, but they discovered a cache of fireworks, guns, syringes, and a nearly completed pipe bomb in Shechtman's bedroom.

Shechtman told the police the 93 syringes were for a science project and the fireworks were from a friend. He told them he did not plan to complete the pipe bomb. The police report did not explain why he had a sawed-off shotgun and several loaded guns.

... He was charged with possession of a sawed-off shotgun and possession of a needle and syringe.

... The legal weapons that Shechtman owned, according to the police report, included: an AK-47 rifle, two .22-caliber rifles, a .44-magnum semi-automatic pistol, a bow and arrow, knives and kung fu weapons.

Legal?? Yup, that guy was a real candidate for legal ownership of an AK-47, etc., fer sure.

.
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MrSandman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. But you were correct...
I'm not very familiar with betting concepts, but I'm betting that a bet that she was shot won't be paying a huge return.


It would have paid no returns, quite the opposite.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #76
78. There's your argument for gun control...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
8. Witness recants murder account (GA)
"Alleged lies, tempers and a courtroom evacuation Wednesday made for a lively second day in Anthony Tutman's murder trial in the Buckhead death of a business executive.
The defendant's younger brother, Terrence Tutman, 22, was expected to be one of the state's key witnesses against Anthony Tutman, 26. Instead, he told jurors that he lied two years ago and implicated his older brother because police threatened and pressured him.
The younger Tutman insisted Wednesday that he had nothing to do with the crime. He stuck to his account despite being grilled repeatedly by prosecutors and his brother's attorney, Liz Markowitz, for changing his story. At one point, Markowitz shouted at Terrence Tutman asking why he told lies that could hurt his brother and accusing him of being the one who participated in the crime.
Anthony Tutman, a former U.S. Marine, says he is innocent and claims he was on a military base in North Carolina on June 9, 1999, when two men ambushed Bynum. Bynum was shot in the chest as he walked from the Lenox MARTA station toward his car on East Paces Ferry Road."

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atlanta/0304/25b...


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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
9. Extradition nears for spouse accused in socialite's slaying (GA)
"A millionaire accused of arranging the 1987 murder of his wife will be returned to Atlanta from Thailand within days, according to U.S. Marshal Richard Mecum.
Mecum said James Vincent Sullivan will be extradited by March 31.
Authorities say the millionaire investor paid $25,000 to a truck driver to kill Lita McClinton Sullivan, 35.
The Buckhead socialite was shot when she opened the door of her townhome to a man posing as a flower delivery man. She died hours before a scheduled hearing to divide the couple's property as part of a bitter divorce."

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atlanta/0304/25s...
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Narf Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #9
17. Why is this posted in "Guns in the News"?
The gun crime was committed in 1987! (Would you still post this if the truck driver had killed the woman with a knife, or a baseball bat?) The man arrested in Thailand wasn't even the shooter.
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MrSandman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #17
75. VPC Logic...
They do the same in officer down.
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MattPinNC Donating Member (65 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
11. Sledgehammer beats Gun toting robber (OH)
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,115109,00.html

Rock, Paper, Scissors, Sledgehammer, Gun
Thursday, March 25, 2004

A fake gun proved no match for a sledgehammer in an Ohio attempted robbery, reports WEWS-TV of Cleveland.

Customers were eating in Stoney's Pizza in Columbus Saturday night when a man came in wearing a ski mask and waving a gun around.

The shop's staffers locked themselves in a walk-in refrigerator. Customers lay on the floor while the gunman searched an office for money and tried to open a cash register, both in vain.

Finally the robber gave up and started walking out. He hadn't noticed that a customer had slipped out the back door and was waiting outside for him.

*********

Guess it's time to start a Sledgehammer ban..

VVV

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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
12. Suspect fatally shot by off-duty officer (TX)
"An off-duty Dallas police officer working as a security guard fatally shot a man Wednesday night who had pointed a gun at him during a car burglary, police said.
The 28-year veteran officer guarding a commercial building in the 1700 block of Regal Row in the Love Field area was called to the parking lot by a witness who reported a car burglary.
The officer, whose name was not released, found three men near a sedan with a broken window about 8:15 p.m., said Dallas police Lt. Anthony Williams.
"One of the suspects pointed a weapon at the officer," and the officer fired twice at him, Lt. Williams said. One of the bullets hit the suspects' car, and the other killed one of the men, he said. "

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localn...
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Narf Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Sounds like the cop did all the right things.
"One of the suspects pointed a weapon at the officer," and the officer fired twice at him, Lt. Williams said. One of the bullets hit the suspects' car, and the other killed one of the men, he said. "

Any citizen has the right to defend themselves against criminals.

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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. a humble suggestion

Perhaps you need to re-read Pert_UK's post about attempting to get / not misrepresenting / not disregarding the point.

.
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Narf Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. What point did you get from this posting?
Here's the one I got: Security guard sees men near car, acting/looking suspicious. Suspicious looking man points gun at security guard. Security guard shoots man who pointed a gun at him.

What would YOU do if someone pointed a gun at you? Call 911?

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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. read it slowly now

How many guns were there in this story of guns in the news?

And why are you so intent on disregarding the other one?

And now, try again: what do you think the point may have been?

.
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Narf Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. At least TWO guns involved...so what's your point?
An off-duty Dallas police officer working as a security guard fatally shot a man Wednesday night who had pointed a gun at him during a car burglary, police said.

Man points gun at security guard, security guard shoot man with gun. Where's the conflict in that?

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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #32
40. conflict? conflict? what "conflict"?

That post of mine was pretty short. It went like this:

How many guns were there in this story of guns in the news?

And why are you so intent on disregarding the other one?

And now, try again: what do you think the point may have been?

Do you want to try again?

.
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Narf Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. I'm not sure where you are trying to go with this post...
How many guns were there in this story of guns in the news?
Two: Bad guy and security guard

And why are you so intent on disregarding the other one?
Again, Bad guy and security guard. Which one am I disregarding?

And now, try again: what do you think the point may have been?
I have no idea.

If someone points a gun at you with the apparent intention of doing you grievous bodily harm, and you are legally armed, what do you do?

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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. why do you ask?
If someone points a gun at you with the apparent intention of doing you grievous bodily harm, and you are legally armed, what do you do?

Let me spell it out very carefully for you.

The subject of this thread is "guns in the news".

In the news item that appears to be causing you so much difficulty, there were two guns.

You keep asking why somebody (who?) apparently has problems with a peace officer using a firearm against a suspect in a crime who aims a firearm at him.

Why are you so insistent that somebody (who?) must have thought that the peace officer should have acted otherwise?

Why are you so evidently intent on inferring, from the fact that this item was posted in this thread, that anyone was implying a comment on the actions of the peace officer in question?

I could put this more briefly, of course.

What the fuck are you talking about?

And I could ask you whether you'd like to try the question again: what do you think the point may have been?

If the point WAS NOT that a peace officer should not use a firearm against a suspect in a crime who aims a firearm at him (and it's utterly beyond me why anyone would even suspect that this was the point), what do you suppose it was? Try letting your imagination run even wilder than it already has, and see what you come up with.

.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Iverglas, WADR I could ask the same of you
i.e. What the fuck are you talking about?

I frankly don't see where Narf was "...insistent that somebody (who?) must have thought that the peace officer should have acted otherwise....

Here's how I interpret Narf's original remark, i.e. "Any citizen has the right to defend themselves against criminals." - I read that as Narf saying that everyone, not just an LEO, has a right to defend him/herself against criminals. Not really a comment about the article as suggested in the informal rules, rather a remark about the right to self-defense in general.

I think we all need to re-read Pert_UK's thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. yes indeed

I read that as Narf saying that everyone, not just an LEO, has a right to defend him/herself against criminals. Not really a comment about the article as suggested in the informal rules, rather a remark about the right to self-defense in general.

We could speak a little more plainly, and say that as comments go, it wasn't remotely relevant to either

- the topic of the thread
- the individual story
- the point being made by the person who posted the story

I'm sure we all also agree that apple pie is a tasty thing. I wouldn't think of bothering to post a message to that effect in response to a story about apple tree blight.

There was a reeaaally obvious implication that the poster in question "perceived" the reason why the story was posted as having something to do with it being a baaaad thing for cops (or anybody else) to shoot crooks who point guns at them. I think we all know that. There's just no other credible explanation for what was actually said.

And I think we all know that this was not the point that the story was posted in aid of.

.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. For someone who often complains about being misunderstood
You really lost me on this one.

There was a reeaaally obvious implication that the poster in question "perceived" the reason why the story was posted as having something to do with it being a baaaad thing for cops (or anybody else) to shoot crooks who point guns at them. I think we all know that. There's just no other credible explanation for what was actually said.

I completely disagree.
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #49
60. WTF? " the point being made by the person who posted the story"
No comment was made by the person posting the story, so how is it you know what his point was?
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. That IS a mystery, roe...
How DID iverglas know that, without me having to tell her, do you suppose?

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Narf Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Perhaps there is a big misunderstanding between us...
I believe that the police officer/security guard acted appropriately. Based on the information I have available the security guard acted in self defense and was reasonably in fear of death or serious bodily injury.

Is that not the way you see it?

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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. why do you ask
I believe that the police officer/security guard acted appropriately. Based on the information I have available the security guard acted in self defense and was reasonably in fear of death or serious bodily injury.

Is that not the way you see it?


Do you have any remotely credible basis for thinking that this is NOT the way I see it?

If not, why would you ask me the question? I know why, but I'll let you answer.


Use that imagination, now.

If the cop had not seen the crook and his firearm in time, or had aimed badly, or had not been on the scene, what might the outcome of this story have been?

.
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Narf Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. I think we are in agreement, actually.
Do you have any remotely credible basis for thinking that this is NOT the way I see it?

None at all. I was asking so I could be sure we both felt that the cop/security guard was justified in his actions.

Perhaps our remarks were misconstrued.

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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. oooh

Perhaps our remarks were misconstrued.

I don't think so.

.
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. Lose the attitude...
...sometimes a question is just a question.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. oh sir, yes sir

And sometimes a question is a deliberate mischaracterization of someone else's intent.

But then you wouldn't know anything about that.

.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. Hope someone's not trying to abridge your freedom of speech
How authoritarian!!
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Narf Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #57
69. No deliberate mischaracterization of anything was intended
I think I just understood your posts differently than you intended them to be understood...and vice versa.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. it's sooooo confusing, isn't it?
I think I just understood your posts differently than you intended them to be understood...and vice versa.

I actually haven't been saying a single thing about how you "understood" MY posts. That's just a silly tangent that someone invented.

And I don't think I understood your posts differently from what you intended at all ... well, except that I saw through them and wasn't sent off track by their apparent intention ...

Lemme make this absolutely clear, just so there isn't room for any further "misunderstanding".

You represented the story in question as being about self-defence, and only about self-defence, by commenting on the self-defence aspect of it -- about which there would quite obviously have been no controversy unless you had happened to find yourself at a meeting of Friends or in some similar place.

You persistently inquired as to what problems anyone might have with the instance of self-defence in question, when no one had suggested that s/he had any problems with that, and you had absolutely no reason to think that the posting of the story here implied that anyone had a problem with it.

You studiously ignored the fact that there was another firearm involved in the story, that was *not* used for self-defence.

You studiously ignored the extremely obvious point behind the posting of the story in this thread, which was that *that* firearm was the "gun in the news", and *that* firearm had been used in a manner that endangered the public and that could easily have resulted in tragedy.

And your intent was plain as day to me.

.
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Narf Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #54
68. Sometimes a question IS just a question...
And this is one of those sometimes.
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Narf Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #53
67. I'm not sure where your hostility is coming from...
I meant no insult nor was I looking to argue. I believe you may have misinterpreted my posts.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
19. South Union Township Man Shot In Front Of His Daughter (PA)
"A man in his 20s was shot to death in front of his daughter in South Union Township Wednesday afternoon.
Neighbors said the 5-year-old girl came stumbling out of her Howard Court apartment and told neighbors, They got my daddy."


http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040325...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
22. Police break up alleged theft ring (OH)
"Whatever Guy Charlton wanted to put up for sale at his Kenmore Boulevard tow yard, he had someone who would steal it for him, police said.
Charlton, 46, of the 500 block of Harvey Street in Akron, was arrested Wednesday as the alleged ringleader of an intricate criminal conspiracy involving burglaries, arson, stolen vehicles, drug sales and other alleged crimes in Ohio and West Virginia over the past 2 years, police said.
Late Wednesday, Croce said, officers confiscated 56 weapons at the residence of Bernard Nicholas, 46, of Gandeeville, W.Va., another alleged ring participant.
Officers also seized five weapons, 1,000 rounds of ammunition, knives, swords, valuable coin collections, tool sets, two safes and drug paraphernalia at the Barberton residence of David Flaker's brother, Anthony Flaker, 45, of the 100 block of Gum Street, Croce said.
The estimated value of the stolen property, drugs and weapons, she said, was well more than $1 million."

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/news/local/8271255.htm
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
23. Man pleads innocent in sniper hoax case (OH)
Nothing to worry about with those law abiding REPONSIBLE gun owners...in a pig's eye.

"Richard A. Adams III is charged with one count each of inducing panic and making a false alarm, both fourth-degree felonies, and one misdemeanor count of falsification.
Adams told investigators in February that a bullet struck the vehicle in an area where 24 highway shootings had occurred on Columbus' south side. He called 911 from his home in Pickaway County, about 30 miles south of Columbus.
Adams later told authorities he accidentally hit the van while target shooting but was afraid to tell his father, according to court documents.
When Adams was indicted, Pickaway County Assistant Prosecutor Alan Sedlak said the felony charges were sought because the hoax triggered a law-enforcement response costing more than $5,000."

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/news/local/8272628.htm
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
24. Memorial Set Up To Remember Slain Teen (TX)
"On Thursday, loved ones put up a memorial to remember Quinton Carter. Carter was found dead in his car late Monday night on Marlo Drive, in East Austin.
The teen was a student at Pearce Middle School this past fall. Police say he was killed during a rigged game of dice. Another man was shot, but survived.
Police have arrested 17-year-old Jerrimie Hyder, and charged him with the shooting."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=382&nci...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
28. U.S. winds up its case against 3 tied to gang (MD)
"Prosecutors summed up two months of testimony in a rare federal death penalty trial yesterday, saying the evidence had painted a "devastating" case against three young Baltimore men accused of carrying out a string of shootings and homicides as they staked out territory in the city's crack cocaine trade.
Authorities said the men were part of a loose-knit and violent gang known as the Lexington Terrace Boys, a nod to the now-demolished west-side housing project where its members grew up. Among the slayings attributed to the group was the execution of one man, Robert "Snoop" McManus, to prevent him from testifying in state court about an earlier double homicide."

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-md.gang25mar...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
35. Annapolis police charge four in shooting of Eastport man
"Annapolis police have arrested four local men in connection with yesterday's early morning shooting of an Eastport man.
Michael Lee Davis, 22, was found in the 1300 block of Tyler Ave. around 2 a.m. yesterday with a gunshot wound to his abdomen. He was flown to the University of Maryland Shock Trauma Center, where he was listed in critical condition yesterday.
Davis was standing with a group of people in the Robinwood housing community when several men got out of a Buick and asked if anyone had marijuana, police said.
When one person in the group produced several bags, one of the car's passengers snatched them and robbed another group member of money at gunpoint. After that, one of the car's occupants began firing his weapon for unknown reasons, and one of the bullets struck Davis. "

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/annearundel/bal-...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
37. Two Killed After Separate Over-The-Rhine Shootings (OH)
"Two men died in separate shootings that took place just blocks and minutes apart in Over-the-Rhine Wednesday night.
At about 8 p.m. Wednesday, police were called to the Kroger store at 1420 Vine Street for a report of a shooting. An off-duty officer found a victim lying in the parking lot with a gunshot wound, WLWT Eyewitness News 5's Monica Abler reported. Willie Stuckey, 25, was rushed to University Hospital, where he was pronounced dead a couple hours later.
As police combed the area around Kroger for clues, they found another shooting victim at about 8:15 p.m. in an alley near 129 East Clifton Ave. That person died at about 9 a.m. Thursday morning. His name has not been released. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=410&nci...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
38. Police Investigate Another Local Homicide (OH)
"A shooting investigation that began after 8 p.m. Tuesday became a homicide investigation a short time later.
A man was shot twice in the chest in the 4500 block of Circle Avenue in Winton Place, WLWT Eyewitness News 5's Juliette Vara reported.
Investigators were at the scene for several hours, collecting evidence and interviewing neighbors. The victim's identity has not been released, and police have no suspects so far.
There were no eyewitnesses to the shooting, but neighbors said they heard several gunshots, Vara reported. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=410&nci...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
39. Man wounded in shooting (TX)
"FORT WORTH - A shooting between occupants of two vehicles on a Fort Worth freeway Wednesday wounded one man and jolted downtown workers when a car carrying the victim skidded to a stop in front of the old Tarrant County Courthouse.
"A woman got out screaming: 'Don't let him die! Don't let him die!' " said Omar Garcia-Vega, who was standing nearby. "He was lying in the front passenger seat."
Three vehicles were traveling at a high rate of speed on Loop 820 near Mark IV Parkway about 2:30 p.m. when there was "an exchange of gunfire," Sullivan said. A passenger in a red pickup was struck by a bullet that passed through the back window."

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/local/8272411.htm

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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
41. State Senate approves pair of NRA-friendly gun laws (FL)
Bad government, guns and the GOP in Jebbo's banana republic...

"TALLAHASSEE Prompting charges of election-year pandering, the Republican-controlled Florida Senate on Wednesday gave preliminary approval to a pair of controversial gun laws.
One proposal would bar anyone, including police agencies, from keeping databases of gun owners and firearms. Another would shield shooting ranges from government-sponsored environmental lawsuits.
Each has the support of the National Rifle Association.
"The National Rifle Association wrote these bills," said Senate Democratic Leader Ron Klein, of Boca Raton. He compared the gun measures to the GOP-led push to require minors tell their parents before they can get an abortion.
"That's all about politics in an election year," he said."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/florida/sfl-fgun...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
42. Mother, son and man jailed in murder of man found dead near West Palm (FL)
Family fun with guns...

"A woman, her 14-year-old son and a man who lived with them were charged with first-degree murder Wednesday in the killing of Richard Roberts, whose body was found in a wooded area on Dryden Road west of West Palm Beach on Feb. 9.

The teen hit Roberts in the head with a baseball bat after an argument, according to the arrest report. Donald Faircloth, who police said lived with the woman and her son, helped get rid of Roberts' semi-conscious body. The woman pulled the trigger, shooting Roberts three times -- twice in the head and once in the arm, the arrest report says.
The woman, 35, and Faircloth, 52, are in the Palm Beach County Jail without bail. Her son was taken to the Juvenile Assessment Center. The South Florida Sun-Sentinel is not naming the woman to avoid identifying her son, who is a juvenile."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/sfl-pm...


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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
44. Man Allegedly Fires Shots At Deputies (NC)
"Investigators said Adrian Lilly fired a shot in the direction of two Guilford County deputies Wednesday night.
The plain-clothes deputies were investigating a drug call on Groometown Road when the shooting happened, according to officials. Deputies arrested Lilly a short time later on Interstate 40 near Holden Road."

http://www.wxii12.com/news/2948987/detail.html
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
45. Bellaire Student Reports Being Kidnapped, Robbed (TX)
"A Bellaire High School student was reportedly kidnapped and robbed as he walked to school Wednesday morning.
The student told police two men forced him into a car on Beechnut and robbed him at gunpoint. He said the men then drove him around the area. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=320&nci...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
55. Memorial Held For Gas Station Shooting Victim (TX)
"Hundreds of family, friends and colleagues said their last goodbyes Wednesday to a Houston Community College professor who was shot and killed Saturday while vacuuming her car at a Rice Village-area gas station.
Helen Orman taught at both the southwest and Stafford campuses of the community college district.
Some who attended the service said they are still trying to cope with the senseless act. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=320&nci...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
56. Officials Question 2 Women In Man's Death (TX)
"Investigators told News2Houston they responded to a shooting call after 6 p.m. and found a trail of blood in the driveway and evidence of a crime in the garage of a home in the 9900 block of Kathie Ann near Northville.
A few miles away from the home, officials discovered the body of a dead man inside a car parked in the 2700 block of Garfield near a field.
The owner of the car said he had been inside the house with the victim and two women, and that the women shot his friend and fled the scene. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=320&nci...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
59. 2 Men Arrested For Fort Bend County Teen's Murder (TX)
"Shaun Christopher Crump, 22, and Mike Gabriel Martinez, 23, were charged with murder in the death of Victoria Carol Foutz, 18.
Officials said a passer-by discovered Foutz's body around 6:45 a.m. in a field off F.M. 360 near Ehlert Road in Beasley on Thursday.
Investigators said Foutz was killed over a $300 digital camera.
Crump and Martinez confessed to shooting Foutz because they thought she stole their camera, according to authorities. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=320&nci...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
62. Man Dies In Shootout With Marshalltown Police (IA)
"Marshalltown police say the man was waving a shotgun around in his yard at 211 Edgeland.
An officer in the area saw the man and told him to put the gun down. Police say the man ignored several warnings, then he fired the gun at the officer.
The officer fired back, killing the man.
Neighbor Ben Reinert said, "He started firing. Then the policeman started firing. Other officers arrived and they began shooting him, too." "

http://www.theomahachannel.com/iowabureau/2949209/detai...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
63. Boy badly hurt when gun goes off (OR)
"SPRINGFIELD - An 11-year-old boy was wounded Wednesday afternoon when the handgun his 14-year-old brother was handling went off, police said.
The boy, wounded in the stomach, was in critical condition late Wednesday at Sacred Heart Medical Center in Eugene.
Springfield police said the shooting appeared to be accidental. It remained under investigation.
The older boy was playing around with his father's Ruger 9mm handgun when it fired and hit the younger boy inside a unit at Cloverdale Apartments on Oakdale Avenue, Sgt. Richard Putnam said."

http://www.registerguard.com/news/2004/03/25/a1.kidshot...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
64. Man Charged With Assaulting 13-Year-Old In Convenience Store (PA)
"Police filed simple assault and disorderly conduct charges against Henry Young, 46, Wednesday.
Troopers said Young, 46, asked the teen to get into his vehicle. When the teen refused, troopers said Young pulled a gun and pointed it in the general direction of the boy. The boy then left the store and went home. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1025&nc...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
65. 3 Pedestrians Robbed At Gunpoint On Bedford Street (WI)
"Police are looking for two men who allegedly robbed three pedestrians at gunpoint early this morning.
The victims were walking in the 200 block of South Bedford Street around 2:20 a.m. when two men walked up, showed a silver handgun and demanded money, police said. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=300&nci...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
66. Man Shot In Own Home Wednesday Morning (WI)
Police are looking for two men they said broke into a Milwaukee home and killed a man Wednesday morning.
Raymond Jones, 34, was killed at daybreak near 59th and Center. Police said two men kicked in the door, had a confrontation with the victim, then shot him in the chest. Someone who was on the second floor of the duplex told 12 News that he heard a commotion and some fighting, but didn't hear the shooting. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ibsys/2...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
70. N.O. Teen Booked In Shooting Deaths Of Mom, Sister
Yeah, the NRA's gun magazine for kids is such a swell idea....NOT!

"A 17-year-old was arrested Thursday after he walked into an Uptown hospital and told workers he had killed his mother and sister during a fight.
According to investigators, neighbors reported hearing arguing and then gunshots inside the home Thursday at about 4:30 a.m.
Shortly thereafter, Sartin allegedly walked into a hospital and told doctors he had just killed his mother and sister. Hospital officials called the Police Department, and two officers were dispatched to 1627 Alvar St. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=378&nci...
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. And ANOTHER Family Made Safer By Guns.....
NOT!!!!!
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Narf Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-26-04 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #72
79. This family was certainly NOT safer because of guns...
Edited on Fri Mar-26-04 10:35 AM by Narf
Would it be any LESS tragic if he had killed his family with at knife, or poison?
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-26-04 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #79
80. Really? What was the first clue?
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-04 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
73. Nagin, Compass Visit Family Of Injured Girl (LA)
"The mayor and the police chief on Thursday visited the neighborhood where an 8-year-old girl was injured by a stray bullet.
Sharday Williams was standing with her mother and others near her North Rocheblave Street home Wednesday at about 8:30 p.m. when a falling bullet pierced her back and exited her chest.
"What I am saying is, the person that done this, I would like very much if they would just come and say they're sorry," said Sharday's mother, Darease Bennett. "This is an innocent child that did not deserve this type of treament. This is so wrong." "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=378&nci...
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Narf Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-26-04 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
82. CLERK SHOOTS HOLD-UP MAN
Edited on Fri Mar-26-04 10:40 AM by Narf
March 25, 2004 -- An attempted robbery at a Queens bodega led to gunplay last night when an armed clerk shot the bandit in the head, police said.

Devin Keitt, 26, allegedly tried to rob at gunpoint the Ramon Food Market on 107th Avenue in Ozone Park at 8 p.m., cops said.

But he was foiled by Edwin Marte, 35, who shot Keitt once in the head with an unlicensed gun, police sources said.

Keitt managed to run almost a block and a half from the bodega before collapsing, according to a police source.

He was rushed to Jamaica Hospital in critical condition.

Police sources said Marte is facing a weapons charge and Keitt is facing attempted robbery and weapons charges.

Story here

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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-26-04 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #82
85. Uh-oh, another NYC DGU with an unlicensed weapon
Mr. Marte should have used a Samurai sword, or maybe a frozen fish.

:freak:
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Narf Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-26-04 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #85
87. Rather sad, isn't it.
The store owner will end up going to jail because he defended himself and his property from a criminal. I noticed the story neglected to mention if the robber's gun was licensed or if the robber had a permit to carry it in NYC. I'm guessing not, especially since only the rich and/or well connected are allowed to legally defend themselves in NYC.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-26-04 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #87
88. Yeah, wannabe robber's gun was probably unlicensed too
Pretty safe guess.
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Narf Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-26-04 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #88
89. You mean criminals don't obey the law and register their guns?
I'm shocked...that is simply not possible. After all, it's the law, right?
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-26-04 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #89
90. okay, I give up

You mean criminals don't obey the law and register their guns?"
I'm shocked...that is simply not possible. After all, it's the law, right?


Just trying to figure out what you, um, two are nattering about.

Exactly what difference would it have made in this scenario if the criminal had registered his firearm?

Exactly what relevance do you think that firearms registration has to this case?

I'll be happy to explain that latter one to you, but I'd really love to hear your own natters on the subject.

See how much you can say without ever getting to the bit about how mandatory registration is intended, and can reasonably be expected, to reduce the number of firearms in illegal circulation (which, gosh, we were just talking about yesterday ...) and thus in the hands of people who will use them to hold up stores, 'k?

.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-26-04 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #90
93. We're actually discussing licensing, not registration
Exactly what difference would it have made in this scenario if the criminal had registered his firearm?

There is no provision in NYC's handgun control laws for a person to convert an illegal, unlicensed, unregistered gun into a legal one.

Exactly what relevance do you think that firearms registration has to this case?

None whatsoever. The subject is licensing.
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Narf Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-26-04 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #90
94. Registration would have made no difference to this situation..
Nor would licensing. The criminal still would have had a gun but, perhaps, the store owner would not have OR if his gun was licensed he wouldn't be in trouble for defending himself. Either way, registration and licensing would have made NO difference to the robber.
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Narf Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-26-04 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
83. Would-be robber killed in fight with store owner
By Jonathan Fowlie
Friday, March 26, 2004
The city's 15th killing of the year occurred Wednesday when a merchant defended himself against three men who were trying to rob his store, police said yesterday. On Wednesday afternoon, the 28-year-old owner of Manhattan Fine Clothes near Lawrence Avenue and Markham Road fought back as the men forced him into a back room, police said.

One of the men trying to rob the store, a 24-year-old, was badly injured and was taken to hospital, where he was pronounced dead. His two accomplices fled.

Story here
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-26-04 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #83
91. ah, a Scarberia story
Scarborough, formerly a borough of metropolitan Toronto, now a part of the Greater Toronto Area. And the place where a disproportionately huge proportion of homicides and firearms crimes happen.

Odd that the story was in the staid Globe, and not the slightly yellower Star. But it's in the very yellow Sun: http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/TorontoSun/News/2004/03/2...
"Mystery still shrouds robbery death"

I would expect, given the circumstances, that the robbers were armed with a firearm or two, but they may have been counting on brute force to overcome resistance.

If they were armed, it was certainly with a handgun, which of course was illegaly acquired, and there's apparently about a 50-50 chance that it was illegally imported from the US. (It seems that more crime guns in Toronto than previously thought may have been acquired on the domestic market, mainly stolen from legal owners -- although given the impossibility of tracing firearms in the US in many cases and the common obliteration of serial numbers, no one really knows. A study was recently done by Toronto police, and some time soon I'm going to get a chance to read more of it and offer it for discussion here.)

Anyhow, it isn't at all clear that the merchant defended himself with a firearm of his own, which is one impression that one might get. It's just as likely that the firearm belonged to the robbers. Given the references to a "mystery", it seems that one way or another, there's more than meets the eye.

Anybody interested can check back at the Star www.torontostar.com or Sun www.torontosun.com later on, to see how it shakes out.

.
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Narf Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-26-04 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
84. Day care intruder killed
Police this morning shot and killed a man who entered the Red Caboose Day Care Center with a knife or machete and slashed a day care employee who confronted him.

Police were called to 654 Williamson St. at about 9:07 a.m. after the male employee, who apparently tried to disarm the intruder, made his way wounded to an office in the building next door.

Police entered the day care center and confronted the intruder. Two veteran officers, who were not immediately identified, shot him.

Full story here.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-26-04 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #84
92. what was that we were saying about lethality?

Well, *I* was saying ...

" ... a man who entered the Red Caboose Day Care Center with a knife or machete and slashed a day care employee ..."

An employee who is pretty lucky the intruder didn't have a firearm, I'd say. After all, he's alive.

.
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Narf Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-26-04 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #92
95. Very lucky to be alive...
It's a damn good thing someone, in this case the police officers, had firearms. If the employee had been armed with a gun he would most likely not have even been cut. The point is that the knife wielding maniac was stopped by a GUN...not a law, not a sign, not a pleading victim, but a GUN! A big, ol' mean evil gun.
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Narf Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-26-04 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
86. Intruder Shot, Killed In Anderson Home
Man With Ax Shot In Neck, Dies At Hospital

ANDERSON -- One man is dead after a shooting in Anderson late Sunday night.

Anderson County Coroner Greg Shore said the shooting happened just before midnight at 1208A N. Main St.

Shore said a man broke into the apartment looking for money and found an ax. The man living in the apartment grabbed a gun and shot the intruder in the neck when the intruder came at him with the ax.

The intruder, Earnest Leroy Miles, 41, of Anderson, died at Anderson Area Medical Center a short time later.

Detectives said the apartment resident, Lance Myers, will not face charges.

Link here.
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