Pennsylvania Legislators consider extending assault-style weapons ban

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04080/288731.stm

With the 10-year federal ban on assault-style weapons scheduled to expire this year, state Rep. Dan Frankel, D-Squirrel Hill, and 22 of his colleagues are pushing for passage of a law that would outlaw Uzis, AK-47s and other similar firearms in Pennsylvania.

"This is commonsense legislation," Frankel said yesterday at a news conference at Pittsburgh police headquarters. "These are not weapons you will find in a duck blind. This is something that we cannot tolerate in our community."

<snip>

Mullen said the ban has had a clear impact on shootings in Pittsburgh. When the city recorded an all-time high of 83 murders in 1993, he said, many were committed with assault-style weapons. Since then, murders with assault weapons have been rare. He said there has been only one this year.

While Mullen said he didn't want to minimize the killings occurring now, he said assault weapons are particularly deadly because the slugs penetrate "almost anything," including houses and body armor. He also said innocent bystanders are more likely to be hit because shooters using assault weapons tend to spray bullets.

[wiley]

1. Now if that state had decent Senators on The Hill....

Way to go PA!

Does this mean Scalia and Cheney can't go duck hunting anymore? That would totally violate Les regles du Jeu!

[MrBenchley]

11. Let's hope this is the start...

I understand Spector is facing a challenge from wingnuts who don't think he's crooked and crazy ENOUGH to suit...

This might be the year efinally replace Arlen with a Democrat!

[FeebMaster]

2. I hear those .223's travel forever! (nt)

[solinvictus]

4. .223

Well, according to the media, it IS the most powerful rifle in the world!!! That's why all those Somalis died with one shot in 1992. :eyes:

[FeebMaster]

5. I wonder though,

is the 7.62x39 as insanely powerful as the .223? Does it share the .223's go forever abilities?

[analogman]

31. It's true, all true!

The laws of physics do not apply to .223 ammo. I understand that a round fired in Vietnam is now passing the orbit of Pluto.

[slackmaster]

3. The new duck blind litmus test

We must subject all firearms to it immediately, and make ourselves intolerant of any weapon that fails.

:freak:

[FeebMaster]

6. I'd like to see some kind of documentation

on that many of the 83 murders were committed with assault-style weapons claim. Also on the since then, murders with assault weapons have been rare claim.

[demsrule4life]

13. I would bet several of the so called AW killings

was done by the mob. The Philly mob was feeling pretty frisky back in 93. And we have been told many times that gun bans do not affect the criminal element.

[-..__...]

7. How wonderful...

<sarcasm>

that Ashcroft politics are being embraced by all.

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/BI/BT/2003/0/HB2451P3471.HTM

"25(c) Compliance check.--The Pennsylvania State Police may, no
26 more than once per year, conduct an inspection to ensure
27 compliance with this subsection."

"1 The following words and phrases when used in this subchapter
2 shall have the meanings given to them in this section unless the
3 context clearly indicates otherwise:
4 "Assault weapon." The term includes the following:

8<..... Snip.

"26 (2) Any pistol that is capable of accepting a detachable
27 magazine at any location outside of the pistol grip."

By definition...

http://www.hammerliusa.com/hammerli_280_target_pistol.htm





http://www.pardini.it/inglese/sommarioinglese.html



http://www.waltherusa.net/osp.htm





Yes, Pennsylvanians can sleep safer knowing that these weapons are off the streets and take comfort that the State police can conduct "compliance" checks.

</sarcasm>

[slackmaster]

8. California screwed the pooch on that one

After the features-based AWB took effect in 2000 they had to pass in great haste an exemption for target pistols because it would have stifled our young Olympic wannabe athletes and prevented the Olympic Games from ever being held here again. From the California Penal Code:

12132. This chapter shall not apply to any of the following:

... <snip> ...

(h) (1) The Legislature finds a significant public purpose in
exempting pistols that are designed expressly for use in Olympic
target shooting events. Therefore, those pistols that are sanctioned
by the International Olympic Committee and by USA Shooting, the
national governing body for international shooting competition in the
United States, and that are used for Olympic target shooting
purposes at the time that the act adding this subdivision is enacted,
and that fall within the definition of "unsafe handgun" pursuant to
paragraph (3) of subdivision (b) of Section 12126 shall be exempt, as
provided in paragraphs (2) and (3).
(2) This chapter shall not apply to any of the following pistols,
because they are consistent with the significant public purpose
expressed in paragraph (1):


MANUFACTURER MODEL CALIBER
ANSCHUTZ FP .22LR
BENELLI MP90 .22LR
BENELLI MP90 .32 S&W LONG
BENELLI MP95 .22LR
BENELLI MP95 .32 S&W LONG
DRULOV FP .22LR
GREEN ELECTROARM .22LR
HAMMERLI 100 .22LR
HAMMERLI 101 .22LR
HAMMERLI 102 .22LR
HAMMERLI 162 .22LR
HAMMERLI 280 .22LR
HAMMERLI 280 .32 S&W LONG
HAMMERLI FP10 .22LR
HAMMERLI MP33 .22LR
HAMMERLI SP20 .22LR
HAMMERLI SP20 .32 S&W LONG
MORINI CM102E .22LR
MORINI 22M .22LR
MORINI 32M .32 S&W LONG
MORINI CM80 .22LR
PARDINI GP .22 SHORT
PARDINI GPO .22 SHORT
PARDINI GP-SCHUMANN .22 SHORT
PARDINI HP .32 S&W LONG
PARDINI K22 .22LR
PARDINI MP .32 S&W LONG
PARDINI PGP75 .22LR
PARDINI SP .22LR
PARDINI SPE .22LR
SAKO FINMASTER .22LR
STEYR FP .22LR
VOSTOK IZH NO. 1 .22LR
VOSTOK MU55 .22LR
VOSTOK TOZ35 .22LR
WALTHER FP .22LR
WALTHER GSP .22LR
WALTHER GSP .32 S&W LONG
WALTHER OSP .22 SHORT
WALTHER OSP-2000 .22 SHORT

[FeebMaster]

9. Look at that thing!

Obviously the weapon of choice for gangs and criminals.

[-..__...]

53. That's because they're cheaply made and affordable.

[MrBenchley]

10. It must be sarcasm...

or else maybe you'd like to show us what AshKKKroft has done or said about renewing the Federal AWB?

The plain fact is, like pretty much every bigoted ignorant right wing loony in politics...he's pro-gun.

[FeebMaster]

12. What does Ashcroft have to do with

renewing the AWB? He doesn't even get to vote on it. Maybe you were hoping Ted Kennedy would introduce a bill giving Ashcroft the power to ban whatever guns he wants?

[MrBenchley]

15. Gee, feeb, you're the one that dragged that piece of shit

AshKKKroft into the discussion....

"Maybe you were hoping Ted Kennedy would introduce a bill"
I'm happy with the bills Ted Kennedy has introduced and support them....

[slackmaster]

16. Including his failed amendment that would have banned 30-30 ammunition?

Like just about everybody's grandpa used to hunt deer with?

[demsrule4life]

18. But they only want

common sense gun control. I hope that was a wakeup call to hunters who thought their guns were safe.

[slackmaster]

19. I think we have both forgotten about the children

How about those children?

[demsrule4life]

20. I haven't forgotten about my three kids

all three grew up to be damn fine shooters.

[FeebMaster]

17. Actually I wasn't.

D_S mentioned Ashcroft policies.

Then you said, "maybe you'd like to show us what AshKKKroft has done or said about renewing the Federal AWB?"

Then I asked, mentioning him for the first time myself, "What does Ashcroft have to do with renewing the AWB? He doesn't even get to vote on it."

So as you can clearly see, I didn't drag that piece of shit into this discussion.

I did, however, drag Ted Kennedy into this discussion since he apparently would like Ashcroft to have more power, given his amendment to the lawsuit bill that failed in the senate. Given that you support Ted Kennedy and his bills, apparently including that particular amendment, apparently you also would like Ashcroft to have more power. I, on the other hand, would prefer that John Ashcroft had no power at all.

[MrBenchley]

21. Tell us, feeb...

AshKKKroft stained the Senate for many years...how do you suppose he voted?

I support Ted Kennedy....you seem to fret that AshKKKroft and his scummy friends aren't crazy enough to suit you.

[MrSandman]

51. Already been done...

" ...semiautomatic assault weapon' means ...

semiautomatic rifle or shotgun originally designed for military or law enforcement use, or a firearm based on the design of such a firearm, that is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, as determined by the Attorney General."

From HR 2038

[slackmaster]

14. Ashcroft's position on renewal fo the AWB is irrelevant

Congress, not the executive branch, makes laws.

[-..__...]

52. "Patriot Act" - 101; or... "Who's that knocking at my front door"?

"25(c) Compliance check.--The Pennsylvania State Police may, no
26 more than once per year, conduct an inspection to ensure
27 compliance with this subsection."

So, do you support the notion of the PA State Police conducting inspections of law abiding citizens to "ensure" "compliance"?

What do you think "inspection" and "ensure" means in this case? A post card to fill out or polite phone call?

Sounds like something that would fit right into the Ashcroft "Patriot Act" and 'Terrorists in The Hood' mentality.

[analogman]

22. He still doesn't get it, does he?

"These are not weapons you will find in a duck blind.

They still think that we want AK-47s, AR-15s, and the like for hunting and sport. They're so blinded by their rhetoric that they can't see the forrest for the trees.

Mullen said the ban has had a clear impact on shootings in Pittsburgh. When the city recorded an all-time high of 83 murders in 1993, he said, many were committed with assault-style weapons. Since then, murders with assault weapons have been rare. He said there has been only one this year.

I wonder if Mr. Mullen has any proof that the decline in murder is a direct result of the AWB ban? Couldn't the decline just as easily be attributed to:
A)Better police work, or
B)Criminals being more cautious because they know that citizens of Pennsylvania are armed and willing to defend themselves?

[MrBenchley]

23. Sounds like he gets it all too well...

"They still think that we want AK-47s, AR-15s, and the like for hunting and sport."
No, like he said, we know who wants assault weapons in their twitchy hands and what for....

[analogman]

24. I want an "assault weapon" in my hands, or at least in my gun safe...

For one reason and one reason only...protection of my self, my family, and my property from criminals and tyrannical government.

[slackmaster]

25. A few people on the pro-AWB side have rational reasons to fear guns

I know people who have had negative personal experiences with firearms that have colored their perceptions and attitudes. That's understandable. The rest of them are just paranoid.

[MrBenchley]

27. Too TOO funny...

So we should let these weapons back on the market and risk the lives of citizens just so you can daydream about shooting your felow Americans?

Ho-kay. So I guess the State Senator wasn't fooled one bit.

[slackmaster]

28. Newsflash for MrBenchley...

"So we should let these weapons back on the market..."

They never left the market.

[analogman]

29. Back on the market? They never left the market.

They'll be on the market after September. And they'll be on the market for as long as there is a market for them.

[MrBenchley]

32. Yeah, and that's why the gun lobby scuttled their own bill...

You'd think after the lie about the AWB not doing anything detonated in such a spectacular public fashion a couple weeks ago that the RKBA crowd would at least try to find a new one.

[slackmaster]

34. Nobody has ever claimed the AWB did nothing

It just didn't do anything beneficial.

[analogman]

37. It did a couple of beneficial things...

It increased the demand for "assault" weapons, and guns in general, and it helped drive up the value of my AK and my 30-round magazines.

[analogman]

36. The AWB will sunset and life will continue much as it has...

Some people will choose to use guns to commit crimes, most won't. As always.

[MrBenchley]

40. And to hell with what voters want, eh?

Excuse the fuck out of me if I don't bend over for what Tom DeLay wants.

[analogman]

42. Actually, you WILL get bent over for what Tom DeLay wants...

That's how our representative government works. We elect representatives, they go to Congress, and do what they damn well please. This time around they'll do what Tom DeLay tells them to do. If the voters want something different they need to do a better job of choosing their representatives. That's the reallity of it.

[MrBenchley]

43. Don't bet on it...

However much the RKBA crowd wants to do Tom deLay's bidding...

[analogman]

45. Tom DeLay controls the majority party in the House of Representatives

They do his bidding. Dennis Hassert is in lockstep with DeLay. Unless the anti-rights crowd comes up with some skeletons in DeLay's closet he'll use his position to block any legislation extending the ill-conceived weapons ban.

[MrBenchley]

46. Yeah, it's great to see what the RKBA crowd looks forward to

By the way, the skeletons aren't in Tom DeLay's closet...he's openly scummy.....like most "pro-gun" politicans.

The gun lobby is hoping that the AWB ban sunsets in silence....not many Republicans want to be campaigning this fall on why they let it lapse.

[analogman]

48. Do you really believe there are varying levels of political "scumminess"?

Politicians are, by nature, liars...especially at the top level. The AWB will sunset because no politician wants to be portrayed as anti-rights. Even the most anti-gun Nazi out there, Diane Feinstein, carries a concealed weapon! The government want's you and me disarmed but has no interest in real reform.

[MrBenchley]

54. Who the HELL are you trying to kid?

[demsrule4life]

26. No, like he said, we know who wants assault weapons in their twitchy hands

Who said that?

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

35. Gee, ana....I'm not the one pretending I need an assault weapon

to protect himself from his fellow citizens....

[analogman]

38. I'm not pretending anything.

Do you really believe that your fellow citizens and your government have nothing but the best of intentions for you? How many people are dead because they trusted their fellow citizens or their government?

[MrBenchley]

39. No, I know there are racist pieces of shit...

and they all scream that we need to get rid of gun control...

[analogman]

41. It's not the racists I'm worried about, it's our government

It's guys like Ashcroft and the proponents of the so called Patriot Act that are of a much greater concern.

[MrBenchley]

44. Too too funny...

"It's not the racists....It's guys like Ashcroft"
One and the same...and "pro-gun" all the way. But then the RKBA crowd has such NICE playmates.

[analogman]

47. There's a HUGE difference between the racists and Ashcroft!

The racists come right out and tell you they want to kill you because of the color of your skin, your sexual orientation, or your political beliefs. You can see them coming a mile away.

Ashcroft and his jackbooted government thugs come under the guise of the rule of law, pretending the things they are doing are for "our freedom" when they are actually interested only in consolidating their power and keeping the little people from seeing the truth.

[MrBenchley]

33. Gee, dems...

Read the original story.

[demsrule4life]

49. I read the original story

and damn I never saw that anywhere. But what else is new.

[slackmaster]

50. Same here

The original article does not contain the words "twitchy" or "hands".