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Chicago loses yet another gun law-related suit. Will they ever learn?

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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 10:00 AM
Original message
Chicago loses yet another gun law-related suit. Will they ever learn?
http://chicagohandgun.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Or...

Short version: David Lawson attempted to register four perfectly legal SKS rifles. City refused, claiming that the rifles could be modified to take detachable magazines. Lawson appealed and won.

http://chicagohandgun.org/2011/08/lawson-v-chicago-mayh...
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
1. have you seen the headlines recently?
A 6 yr old was shot in her own living room, because a gang member was angry at someone and shot aimlessly into a home.
An elderly man was shot sitting on his own porch, minding his own business.
A woman was shot in the ankle in her bedroom, because of a stray shot between gang members.


It is deadly just sitting in your own home.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. That story has exactly squat to do with the topic presented here
Criminals don't obey laws. We know that already.
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Hoopla Phil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Just what does this have to do with the price of tea in China?
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gejohnston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. take it up with the bong owners and coke heads
they are the ones paying for the carnage.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Respectfully, this should be taken up with W.O.D. advocates...
No doubt some drug users and certainly criminal elements in the illegal trade commit much mayhem. Putting them out of business to a great degree depends on the legalization, hence regulation, of now-illegal drugs. For now, folks should buy local! :smoke:
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gejohnston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #11
23. my point was that
they were fighting over market share. Legalize or grow your own is totally cool with me, then they are not lining the cartels and local gangsters. I remember before the WoD, these gangs mostly had switchblades, tire chains, and if they had a gun, a homemade zip gun or some RG or Clerke crap.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Those headlines mention shootings by gang members ...
The article in the OP is talking about a man attempting to register legal rifles.

It is obvious that the city of Chicago is doing everything it can to stop honest citizens from owning or carrying firearms of all kinds including those that it is legal to own in Chicago.

The city may have its priorities wrong. In my opinion it should concentrate more on keeping criminals from owning firearms by better law enforcement and strict sentencing for those caught with illegal weapons. Chicago could have used the money it has wasted on losing cases in court to finance this activity.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Yeah, someone bombed a building in OK City. With Fertilizer.
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Atypical Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. What is the common theme to all of those shootings? GANGS
And probably DRUGS.

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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. And definitely GUNS
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Atypical Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. But not lawful ones like the OP is about. n/t
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discntnt_irny_srcsm Donating Member (916 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-11 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
30. Perhaps...
...because:

A 6 yr old was shot in her own living room, because a gang member was angry at someone and shot aimlessly into a home.

...it should be illegal to shoot 6 yr olds in Chicago.
:think:
Oh, it already is.


An elderly man was shot sitting on his own porch, minding his own business.

...it should be illegal to shoot elderly men sitting on their porches New Orleans.
:think:
Oh, it already is.


A woman was shot in the ankle in her bedroom, because of a stray shot between gang members.

...it should be illegal for gang members to exchange gunfire in San Fransisco.
:think:
Oh, it already is.


Blogging about politics, thoughtful.
Posting objections to an acknowledged right, amusing.
Googling for shooting victims and thinking with your glands, priceless.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
2. Why is retrofitting an SKS with a detachable magazine an issue?
If detachable magazine rifles are permitted in Chicago, then...?
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DonP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Chicago/Cook County AWB ntxt
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DonP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
4. Wow, another court loss for Chicago. Just put that on the mayor's legal tab please.
At last count, following the loss of McDonald and Ezell, the costs were up to around $5 million they had to pay out to the plaintiffs (Gura, ISRA, NRA et. al.)

I wonder how much this will add to the total? How much longer before Rahm realizes Daley had a sick and twisted obsession and he's still paying for it with a shrinking city budget?

It's worth reading the court decision too. Apparently Chicago tried to keep the guns in question (4 SKS rifles) completely out of the courtroom as evidence, then claimed that with; "the flick of a sharp instrument or bullet they can be converted to accept large magazines. But the City's expert witness declined to demonstrate for the court how that could be done." Just trust him, would a Chicago witness lie to you?

How is that any different from claiming that no shotguns should be sold, because they may be sawed off at some point. Chicago the home of pre-crime justice.
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discntnt_irny_srcsm Donating Member (916 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. It's not such a big jump...
...from bans to prior restraint.

Human rights with a side of liberty for me, please.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Damn, what did those guns have?...
hot pants, tight pants, no bra, John C. Holme's caliber, tonsilar syphilis? Must have been frightening in that court room.
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DWC Donating Member (584 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
13. Step on our civil rights and we will legally step back - hard. n/t
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
15. I converted my SKS back to the hinged box magazine.
Edited on Mon Aug-08-11 03:08 PM by ileus
When it was given to me the stock had been all bubbaed up, to accept a detachable magazine. So I bought a tapco stock and replaced it, I also bought a couple of detachable 20's. Well after a couple of years of not shooting it, I put the factory box magazine back on. It's a 1956 model BTW...I really wish the stock stock hadn't been F up. I'll probably buy a "new" factory stock and completely revert it back to factory sometime in the future.
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. dup
Edited on Mon Aug-08-11 03:11 PM by ileus
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
17. It's funny that the "city witness" was too scared to even inspect the SKS's
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DonP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. I think he was afraid it wouldn't work
Or, more likely, that he didn't know what he was talking about and had just read it was possible. The Chicago lawyers probably didn't want a massive embarrassment in front of the judge while the guy fumbled and tried to figure it out. That's probably why they didn't want them in court as evidence, also they don't look nearly scary enough.

Chicago is not used to having to actually present a case and defend their stance regarding gun laws or gun control in a courts filled with Daley supported judges. This actual case law stuff and using evidence is new and strange to them. That's why, even though the city has a highly paid staff of senior lawyers in the city counsel's office, they always hire big firm attorneys to do the actual work on these cases.

That way the city pays their in house staff, with benefits, the hired gun lawyers they hired and njow the lawyers hourly rate for the winning plaintiffs. Too bad Mr. Larson won't get a damages check too, he could buy a real semi auto and get his self a Garand. Unliike my Marlin Model 60, that holds 18 rounds in the tube, the Garand is not considered by Chicago and Cook County to be an an Assault weapon with "only" 8 rounds.
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. There are some sks's that take AK magazines...I'm assuming none of these 4 do/did.
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Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. That seems entirely plausible
6. The City witness, Officer Biggins, contends that the subject rifles have the capability of accepting a detachable magazine with a flick of a sharp object or a bullet without structural changes to the weapon. Officer Biggins testified that 'the process" does not allow him to demonstrate this potential alteration to the subject weapons.

As it happens, I own an M56/66 and a copy of Ian Skennerton's handbook. Yes, you can use aftermarket detachable magazines (e.g. TapCo ones) in an SKS, but you first have to remove the fixed magazine, and to that, you have to disassemble the rifle almost completely, including removing the trigger group.

I wonder if Officer Biggins could be charged with perjury, either for knowingly making false claims about the SKS, or for falsely claiming to have any degree of expertise concerning the SKS.
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
19. Fortunately, administrative hearings don't usually set precedent. Glad this guy spent all that money

so he can cozy up to his rifles.
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Blown330 Donating Member (280 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Well apparently...
...the expert witness the owner of the SKS hired did so without charge. I'm sure the city's witness was still getting paid his normal salary while wasting oxygen in the courtroom. Maybe not a legal precedent but it certainly will make the city think twice before attempting the same BS again.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Keep your head in the sand...the CA AWB is almost as silly
He may well be awarded legal fees...
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Let me know when that happens. Highly unlikely.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. I used to think ACLU and Greenpeace were being bled dry the same way...
Not anymore
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DonP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Yeah, Chicago would never have to pay legal fees, right?
"Highly unlikely"

Except for the $5 million they already owe (so far) for losing McDonald v. Chicago in SCOTUS and Ezell v. Chicago in the Circuit Court. Nice checks to Alan Gura, ISRA and the NRA on at least one of them. A hell of a lot more than any corporate contributions from Midway or Smith & Wesson, that's for sure. Thank you for the nice contributions to the pro gun side.

But other than that nothing to speak of.

Well, except Lawson hasn't filed for fees yet, but that may well come.

You really cheer for the wrong side in a civil rights case, or are you a big fan of a Police State mentality?

But I guess someody had to like the way George Wallace thought. I'm sure as soon as Mom gives you your allowance for the week you'll send those nice Brady people a contribution to put your money where your mouth is, right?
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