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Deadly force gone awry (Castle Law Suckage)

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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-11 02:29 PM
Original message
Deadly force gone awry (Castle Law Suckage)
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20110618/OPINION...

Ringing neighbors' doorbells and running away is a classic childish prank. But what may have seemed just a harmless game of ding-dong ditch could have cost Jacob Eberle, 12, his life. Jacob took 50 birdshot pellets to his back, neck, jaw and right arm when a neighbor, Michael Bishop, was not amused.

Mr. Bishop has been charged with attempted murder, and at his arraignment Friday, his lawyer said that his client was remorseful and meant only to scare the children away. What happened to Jacob was an accident, the attorney said.

But some have rushed to defend Mr. Bishop, calling the pranksters thugs and perhaps believing that Kentucky's deadly force law, also known as castle doctrine, gives a property owner the inalienable right to shoot first. But KRS 503.080 lays out very specific circumstances in which a property owner may legally use deadly force to defend his home, vehicle or place of business. For example, he or she must believe that lethal force is necessary.

The shooting occurred in Louisville's Glenmary subdivision. One version is that the boys rang Mr. Bishop's door bell, but another is that Jacob and his friends were walking up to Bishop's door, saw him with the shotgun and were running away. Jacob's parents, meanwhile, have filed suit seeking compensatory and punitive damages. In it, they allege that Mr. Bishop shot without justification or cause and claim that his actions were outrageous due to evil motive and reckless indifference.

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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-11 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
1.  Those that would defend this man's actions make me ill...
Edited on Sat Jun-18-11 02:53 PM by hlthe2b
and I can only hope there are rational people on that jury that will deliver his very deserved sentence.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-11 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. you should be applauding the fact that the "castle law" is correctly not being applied.

And as the article states, the law is specific about the circumstances where it would apply. The article creates a straw man by saying some people "perhaps believing that Kentucky's deadly force law, also known as castle doctrine, gives a property owner the inalienable right to shoot first."



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GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-11 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
3. Castle law does not cover that sort of gun usage.
He did a criminal act and deserves to be punished.

Another jpak fail.
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-11 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. but..but..but..."some say" the kids were thugs attacking the castle and they must litter the streets
yup
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-11 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I don't think anyone wants kids to litter the streets. proper disposal is important...
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GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-11 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. The law is the law. Your rants and imagining have the same relevance...
...as does a crazy talk radio program. Another massive fail for you.
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oneshooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-11 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
10.  If "some say" then proove it, or retract it. n/t
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S_B_Jackson Donating Member (564 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-11 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
19. The only one saying that, jpak, is you.
This was a criminal use of a firearm. The shooter has been correctly charged, and should be convicted.
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-11 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
28. There must have been witnesses, so the shooter loses any attempt at "Castle Doctrine"
protection. Without witnesses, he could claim it, but shooting a 12 year old? He lost.
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Logical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-11 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
6. Most gun owners and gun advocates will consider this guy an idiot and will hope he.....
gets sent to jail for it. It hurts the gun cause and the castle doctrine does not apply to this fool.

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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-11 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
7. Unrecced for your lying title.
Hopefully this man goes to jail for the rest of his life.
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Hangingon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-11 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. +1 nt.
The untrue subject lines should be stopped.
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oneshooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-11 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
11.  unrec, because it's jpak. Who can't be trusted to tell a truth.
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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-11 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
12. (Castle Law Suckage)
Edited on Sat Jun-18-11 05:25 PM by rl6214
Still haven't grown up and figured out how to post as an adult yet, huh?

unrec for juvenile shtick

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Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-11 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
13. Would you do us a favor and look up what "Castle Doctrine" ACTUALLY ENTAILS?
There's an apocryphal story about Abraham Lincoln posing the question how many legs a calf has, if you call the tail a leg. When his interlocutor answered "five," Lincoln pointed out that the correct answer is "four" because calling the tail a leg does not make it one.

In a similar fashion, just because somebody claims justification for his actions under Castle Doctrine does not mean Castle Doctrine actually applies.

What Castle Doctrine entails, as a rule of thumb, is that a person who has gained forcible entrance to your residence (i.e. he has to have broken into your house, not just wandered into your yard) may be reasonably presumed to possess both the means and intent to inflict physical harm on you. That's all it does.
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TPaine7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-11 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I hope you wrote that for lurkers and other bystanders. Otherwise your pearls will be trampled. n/t
Edited on Sat Jun-18-11 09:45 PM by TPaine7
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Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-11 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Hope springs eternal
But if it helps make it clear to any lurkers that jpak is utterly full of shit, I'll consider that a positive outcome.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-11 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
15. The shooter has been arrested and charged with attempted murder.
Edited on Sat Jun-18-11 10:20 PM by krispos42
Sounds like the "Castle Doctrine" law isn't in play here.



Or are you arguing that he shot because he thought the law would defend him?
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right2bfree Donating Member (383 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-11 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #15
33. YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go get em Mr. DA!!!!
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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-11 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #33
38. I wish every gun crime would be prosecuted instead of plea
bargained away just to get a conviction on another charge, then give the appropriate sentence. Go after the gun crimes, not the innocent gunowner.
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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-11 01:45 AM
Response to Original message
17. Let's see Jpak claims this is a case of misused castle doctrine but if you bother to read
You find out that castle doctrine correctly does not apply hear.

Unrec for shameless lie.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-11 01:51 AM
Response to Original message
18. If only we could apply Truth In Advertising standards to your posts.
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DWC Donating Member (584 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-11 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
20. If you violate the law
You will pay the price in both the criminal and civil justice systems.

Note, the gun user Mr. Bishop is facing serious felony charges and civil litigation, NOT the gun itself.

Sounds to me like there are bad/stupid/crazy people in the world and the justice system is working.

Semper Fi,
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-11 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
21. Story does indicate how irresponsible and blood thirsty some gun owners/advocates can be.

And last line in the link is dead on: "Far too often in the heat of a moment, a gun in hand causes logic to take flight."
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ManiacJoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-11 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. In any sizable population, it is a given that
you will have a few bad actors. Some populations have a higher percentage than others.
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-11 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Yea, but the gunners here tell us how responsible they ALL are. They all ain't.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-11 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-11 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Deleted message
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oneshooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-11 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #25
26.  There are also a LOT of irresponsable car owners, are you one of them? n/t
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eqfan592 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-11 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Nice dodge....
....but you specifically said how you hear us saying how ALL gun owners are responsible when in fact the only time I have EVER heard such statements made were by people such as your self in a weak attempt at humor.

Yes, there are gun owners that are not responsible. But that is not by itself a good reason to heavily restrict them beyond how they already are. You can't start treating people like criminals until they've actually committed a crime. It's not how a free society works. End of story.

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ergot Donating Member (253 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-11 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. Can't you read your own words? I quote verbatim:
"Yea, but the gunners here tell us how responsible they ALL are."


You wrote it and 5 minutes later denied doing so. You have a serious problem.
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friendly_iconoclast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-11 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. Keep trying, Hoyt. You'll get that moral panic jumpstarted any day now:
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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-11 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #23
31. Noooo
actually the claim is how much more responsible concealed carry licence holders are.

Your post would be the same as saying ALL your posts use proper English and "they all ain't"
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right2bfree Donating Member (383 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-11 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #23
34. Most are not responsible at all.
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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-11 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #34
39. "most are not responsible at all"
OK, you can surely cite a study or something that proves this point out, right?
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pipoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-11 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #34
42. Only an idiot would actually believe such tripe...
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right2bfree Donating Member (383 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-11 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #21
35. Its easier to pull a trigger then ring a doorbell. This man HAS to be made an example of...
the myth of the "law-abiding gun-owner.

Yuppers.
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gejohnston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-11 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. just like the myth of the law abiding nongun owner
Edited on Mon Jun-20-11 01:10 AM by gejohnston
or the myth of the law abiding anti gun activist. http://www.stopillegalmayors.com/
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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-11 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #35
40. Right, right along side the myth of the adult that is not a pedophile
because every adult is just a child molester waiting to happen.
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right2bfree Donating Member (383 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-11 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
32. I only wish I could be on the jury. This guy would never ever pack a gun again...
after he spent ten years in prison.

Yuppers!!
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gejohnston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-11 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. my guess is that he will plead out and avoid trial.
Either way, I see it still being a felony.
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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-11 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #32
41. Who said he was ever "packing" a gun?
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