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one-eyed fat man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 07:28 AM
Original message
For your listening pleasure
Oral argument in the Euell Chicago case

This is long but worth it. Listen as Seventh Circuit Federal Judges demolish the Chicago lawyer tasked with defending the Demented Dwarf's duplicitous and byzantine gun permitting scheme. The issue in question the the city's requirement for range firing to obtain a permit while at the same time banning ranges.

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GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
1. Link didn't work. Sounds like something interesting. N/T
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Remove the two extra //'s in the address.
Edited on Wed Apr-06-11 08:34 AM by PavePusher
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one-eyed fat man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Mysterious
Here is the bare link http://www.ca7.uscourts.gov/tmp/6R0WSYPC.mp3

Don't know why posting in Firefox seems to cause troubles. But posting a formatted link works for some but not others. Which browser do you use?
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
4. Mr. Gura speaks very well indeed
Edited on Wed Apr-06-11 09:39 AM by slackmaster
One of the judges, not so well.

ETA the lawyer for the city came off as a fool. He didn't make any sense at all.
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one-eyed fat man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Old saying in the legal profession
"When the law is against you, argue the facts. When the facts are against you, argue the law. When both are against you, attack the plaintiff. - R.Rinkle"

The attorney for the city came off sounding like a second-rate ambulance chaser. He couldn't dazzle them with brilliance and the judges were not about to be baffled by bullshit.
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Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. .
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Callisto32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. I think I know why Chicago's lawyer sounds like a fool.
The best way to sound like you have an intelligent point to make is to be honest, and back your honest position with facts that support it.

If he was being honest it would come out something like this "what Chicago is really trying to say is that the powerful who have run the city for generations are experiencing sour grapes at the fact that the SCOTUS has beaten down their draconian 'we are more equal' style laws and we would really like for you to give the okay on our circumventing the situation by creating a regulatory code with which it is impossible to comply."

I wouldn't want to say that to any judge.
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Callisto32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
7. The talky judge at the beginning...oy.
She asks a question, attorney tries to answer, she says "doesn't your brief tell me enough..." Attorney continues to answer, judge shows actual ignorance on topic...

No, your honor, apparently the brief did NOT tell you enough....
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GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
9. That was great to listen to.
It was amazing that none of the people who wrote the ordanance nor the attorney had ever been to an indoor firing range. The idiot attorney kept trying to talk about outdoor ranges even after being corrected several times. Even when the judges continued to correct him on the issue of harm he kept trying to say that because there were ranges outside Chicago that the law was constitutional. You would think that when the judge you are presenting you case to corrects you on a point of law that you would respect that and shut up on the point of law.
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-..__... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
10. Good show by Gura...
massive fail by Chicago.

However... my concerns is that this case is far from over.

Even if the plaintiffs prevail (and I can't realistically see them losing on this one), expect the city alderman/zoning board to enact foolish, overly burdensome, onerous and impractical restrictions/regulations on any shooting range applications; in which case... it's back to the courts again.

If that's the game the city wants to play... I sincerely hope that the entire city government goes belly-up/bankrupt for continuing this nonsense.

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virginia mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
11. Seems like Chicago will be writing Alan Gura another hugh check...
ROFLMAO, they brought nothing to the table, listing at the judges frustration with the "otherside" made my night!!

Thanks!!
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armueller2001 Donating Member (477 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
12. That was hilarious
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 10:42 AM by armueller2001
Thanks. Listening to the Chicago attorney stutter and stammer when they asked him about putting a range near the forest preserve or the industrial district was priceless. He got owned by Gura and the judges.
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DonP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. My favorites - Judge: "Have you ever been to a shooting range?"
Chicago lawyer: "Um, no your honors, I have not"

Judge: "Then what is this based on?"

Chicago lawyer: "Conversations with Sergeant (name) in the state police who assured me this was the case."

Judge: "Doesn't seem like any of the people that wrote this ordinance have ever been to a range either."

(And what was that crap about a range being a dangerous place that attracts criminals and other undesirables with guns? I bet Daley personally wrote that description. So at any moment a gunfight might break out and endanger the community? I must be going to the wrong shooting ranges I guess.)

Judge: "Do you have any examples of bullets escaping the range or gunfights breaking out at target ranges in other states or areas?"

Chicago lawyer: "Ummm, no your honors I do not."

That guy did not get his money's worth at Law School. Either that or Daley (3 tries to pass the bar, even with family help) told him exactly what to say and nothing more.
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DonP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
13. The city, and now Emanuel, will keep dragging their feet
They have an unlimited supply of money (property taxes and the $ millions in TIF funds that only the mayor has access to) and lawyers for these cases and Daley/Emanuel (I really can't tell them apart, except one of slightly shorter than the other) will continue to fight the findings with every dollar in a Chicago tax payers pocket.

But ... Daley is an insane "true believer" that no one but his bodyguards and the idiots on the City Council, in spite of the actual facts, should be allowed to carry guns.

Rahm seems to be a little more politically pragmatic and at some point down the road may just throw the issue away if it gets him something else he wants in Springfield. Daley, OTOH, will rant about it long after he's chasing kids of his lawn at his retirement home in Michigan (A shall issue state!).
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
14. Boy, the city's lawyer must be walking funny..
Edited on Fri Apr-08-11 04:31 PM by X_Digger
He got spanked.
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