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Omaha Steve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 06:38 AM
Original message
Need some help with a gun control question

A Yahoo group I'm in has had gun control come up. One member states: I don't even like the phrase, "legal guns" OR "registered guns", as both allow for the government to not only dictate what kinds of guns citizens are allowed to possess but creates a registry whereby they can come knocking on your door to take your guns away when you need them most. (New Orleans and Katrina is a prime example) so YES they will take your "legal, registered guns", and did so leaving many people at the mercy of thugs who did, in fact, rob, beat and very possibly kill some of those who were forced to give up their guns.

Anybody know anything about this?

OS

P.S. Between work and a We Are One rally I probably won't be back until Tuesday.

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OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. In katrina, I do not believe there was a registry in NoLa... but they did illegally confiscate guns.
Edited on Mon Apr-04-11 07:00 AM by OneTenthofOnePercent
In some instances, they went through neighborhoods and in others they searched and siezed guns from people. But I do not believe there were even registries in existance to reference in new orleans (or louisiana). Few cities or states require registring friearms - even with a person permitted to carry firearms in public, often the firearms themselves are not even registered. Heck, there alot of states that allow firearms to be carried fashion even without a permit.

Now there have been other istances of firearm registired used to confiscate firearms. In california for example, there was registration. One day, california decided to make SKS carbine rifles illegal (ban them). They pulled up registry records and litterally went door to door informing people who had those types of rifles to turn them in by a certain date. It was pretty easy... they had names and addresses of people with those guns. There are other instances, not just in america, where regiatries were used as confiscation lists. United Kingdon, Canada, Austrailia, etc...

There is a rich history of registries being used for confiscaton. So when people take an position against registration and cite such concerns - thier postition certainly has some merit and evidenc to back it up. As to your original query, regarding NOLA, I don't believe there were "lists of firearms" to be confiscated... they just went out rounding them up. I may be wrong about that though.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. True. The Katrina confiscation led to a new law in Florida ...
that prohibits confiscation following a hurricane.

During or immediately after a hurricane, you are basically on your own. You may not even be able to dial 911.


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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. Whereas New Jersey wen the other way.
Trying to codify allowing the confiscation of weapons in emergencies.
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
2. In NOLA, I think the police (like from Gretna) were using their guns to turn refugees back.

Not sure thugs were killing folks -- but I'm sure that story goes over with the right wing, Tbagger types who typically champion guns.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Look at you minimizing 'turn refugees back' from 'murder refugees'.
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Minimizing nothing except the right wing gun carriers' opinions.

Fact is, police -- at orders of racists in Gretna -- turned starving people back. Probably killed folks too.

They all should be jailed as well as any private citizen who pointed a gun, touched a gun or in any other way intimidated starving, dying people.

If you were there, were you parading around with your gun?
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. There really wasn't a lot of violence.
Most of what we were seeing reported was total over-excited media bunk.

There were certainly some instances of people who stayed behind, defending their property, but no widespread looting. Calling in my co-worker as a Washington National Guard member was probably unncessary. (I live in Wa, so no idea what you are getting at about 'parading around with my gun')

Most of the actual evidence of violence I have seen was initiated by the police against civilians of all kinds, but primarily against black civilians.
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SoulSearcher Donating Member (119 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. Police were taped looting stores as well
Katrina/NOLA was giant SNAFU. Military Heli's ordered to overfly
people on rooftops, police looting stores, infamous pic of 1200 fllooded
buses still parked, no courageous leadership, and no help coming.
Until Gen. Russell Honore got there.
A big FU to Bush, Nagin, and Blanco - the 3 Stooges of Katrina.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #19
27. I'm still at a loss as to how Bush can be blamed for this.
I've yet to see a reasonable explaination.

There's plenty to diss the man for without making stuff up.
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Bold Lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. "If you were there, were you parading around with your gun?"
You mean like Sean Penn?


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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Man, the blatant dishonesty we see here makes me want to vomit.
:puke:


Now he is trying to rewrite history.

:puke:
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one-eyed fat man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. You do like hurling insults.
Edited on Mon Apr-04-11 10:38 AM by one-eyed fat man
Officers Convicted of Murder, Burning Victim's Body following Hurricane Katrina

"Not sure thugs were killing folks -- but I'm sure that story goes over with the right wing, Tbagger types who typically champion guns."

Let's see, "...the existence of thugs in uniform is a myth I suppose?"

Seems like they did more than just turn refugees back. You must love the testimony of one New Orleans cop where he said they divided up the nice guns among themselves and threw the one no one wanted in the river.

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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. "Thugs" meant the poor people that all the folks bigots in Gretna were afraid of.
Edited on Mon Apr-04-11 10:46 AM by Hoyt

The insults were hurled at anyone who used a gun to intimidate starving folks trying to get out of NOLA.

I bet you would have been running around with your guns had you been there.
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YllwFvr Donating Member (757 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. You wouldn't have been?
With police presence low, looting at will, not to mention they are usually quite valuable movable property, who wouldn't take them?
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. I don't think the looting was anywhere near as prevalent as the bigots suggest.

Besides, there is very little property worth shooting someone over, especially during a disaster.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. Deleted message
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #10
24. Food, water, shelter, tools for survival and rebuilding....
Naw, susvival goods are nothing worth shooting a thief over.

Or sompthin'....
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chibajoe Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #10
26. I was there, and the looting was absolutely as bad as your so called "bigots" suggested.
You were not there, so please refrain from pontificating on what desperate people may or may not do during an extended state of emergency, especially when they feel that the government and authorities have not only abandoned them, but were actively working against them. The value of whatever property you have left is magnified a thousand fold because of the magnitude of you loss.
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friendly_iconoclast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. You countered puritanical moral posturing with empirical evidence.
That will carry no weight with the prohis, but it will to the honest people who read what you wrote.

Thank you.
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Hangingon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. "that all the folks bigots in Gretna"
I that keyboard sputtering?
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one-eyed fat man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Like I said....
Edited on Mon Apr-04-11 12:44 PM by one-eyed fat man
"I bet you would have been running around with your guns had you been there."

You like hurling insults. That, and bullshit's, all you have.
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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
14. If the government has a list of items registered to private citizens and that item is made illegal
Then the government is liable and responsible for confiscating said object.

Knowing this and also knowing that gun bans are useless without confiscation results in any attempt at a registration scheme being actually a setup for gun bans and confiscation.

As for police investigations, we have a more effective system of no official registration yet police can often trace a firearm especially if the perp doesn't know the gun is being traced. An official registration system would result in forced preparation of documents that would be used to prosecute you in the future if you commit a crime, which would be self witness, a violation of the 5th rendering the gun registration system as useless for fighting crime and as only a tool for gun confiscation for a government that is planning to ban guns later on.

The point is that any state government that has a gun registration system has a long term goal of banning and confiscating guns. California has already used their registration system to confiscate guns.
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oneshooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #14
17.  So has New York City. n/t
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Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. So has New Jersey. n/t
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Bold Lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
18. The state of California enacted a registration law for "assault rifles" only to
Edited on Mon Apr-04-11 01:39 PM by Bold Lib
later ban those rifles, and yes they did go door to door collecting them.
http://www.nrawinningteam.com/states/c2980128.html

On edit: I believe that NY has done this also.

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virginia mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. here is a copy of the documents sent to owners of the rifles in CA..
This is absolute why registration is a NO-GO... Rules change, and suddenly your previously legal firearm is illegal, and the police know EXACTLY, who has what...YOU MUST COMPLY...

First letters are to the OWNERS...






And the letter sent to law enforcement...





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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Technically, they only confiscated ones registered during an extension period that was overturned.
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