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FL Gun Owners with Concealed Weapons Permits Explain Their Choices

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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 12:10 AM
Original message
FL Gun Owners with Concealed Weapons Permits Explain Their Choices
-----

It's been 24 years since the Florida Legislature passed a law allowing people to carry concealed weapons, and 48 states now have some form of concealed-carry permit. A number of new bills are being considered in the Florida Legislature, including one that would allow permit owners to carry their guns openly.

In Duval County as of Feb. 28, 36,603 people had concealed weapons permits - about 4.27 percent of the county. That's a soaring increase from just 13,962 permits in 2004.

-----

Many readers with concealed weapons permits responded to a Times-Union request to tell us about themselves. All were adamant they felt safer with their guns, even if they'd never felt a need to take the weapon out. Many cited concerns about random crime and a responsibility to protect themselves. Some became familiar with guns at an early age; some never dreamed they'd carry one someday.

Beyond that, though, they are a varied group offering a few surprises - one mixed on the idea of openly carrying guns, and with some who don't like some positions taken by the National Rifle Association.



Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/entertainment/2011-04-03/story/...

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sharesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
1. Their access to guns and ammo is the same access that Clay Duke had.
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Straw Man Donating Member (986 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. No, not the same at all. Clay Duke was a convicted felon, barred from owning firearms.
http://www.newsherald.com/articles/gun-89386-one-panama...

His access was illegal: not at all the same thing as a vetted, licensed CCW holder.

Clay Duke's rampage was stopped by an armed security guard. According to your system, that's "guns as a solution to guns: no points awarded." Isn't that right?
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sharesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. If he shouldn't have guns how did he get a gun?
Making them scarce is the answer. His status as a barred felon aided society not one little bit.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Can you make middle school metal shops scarce?
Because that's all you need to manufacture a quality firearm by hand.

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king, yes? You would make us all blind, you know that right?
Or were you planning on keeping those fine upstanding police officers armed?
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right2bfree Donating Member (383 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 05:16 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Bingo!!!! We have a winner!!!
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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #8
31. Not even close
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one-eyed fat man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. You have been asked before
Where do you buy your dope? Ask the guy you get your cocaine from if he can get you a gun. Ban?? Make something scarce?

You claim to live around Chicago? You mean you can't find a hooker on Craigslist?

http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/thp/2303956306.html

Did bans ever make booze, dope, pussy for hire, or any other commodity scarce?
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. Let us know how that whole "making them scarce" thing works out for you NT
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Straw Man Donating Member (986 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. Simple answer: the system failed.
Edited on Mon Apr-04-11 10:55 AM by Straw Man
If he shouldn't have guns how did he get a gun?

Making them scarce is the answer. His status as a barred felon aided society not one little bit.

The system was unable to enforce the law that was on the books. Tell us again how passing more unenforceable laws will remedy that situation.

BTW, "making them scarce" is pretty euphemistic, don't you think? How do you propose to do that without outright bans? Let's be clear about what you're really calling for. How scarce do you have to make them before criminals can't get them? I would point you to the yakuza, who manage to arm themselves despite Japan's rather stringent gun laws.

And it's "no points awarded" for the security guard in your opinion, right? Let's also get that clear.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #5
15. I say make felons scarce and leave our guns alone
:hi:
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. +1 to you
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
30. Like drugs have been made scarce? n/t
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tortoise1956 Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Geez
Don't you ever get sick of spouting the same tired nonsense? Why do you even post to this forum? Methinks you have a secret yen to parade around armed to the teeth, and you are trying to deny your true nature...
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rrneck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. He's so good at making the anti's look bad
he probably owns a gun store.
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tortoise1956 Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 02:56 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. It's painful sometimes
to read what he posts. I have trouble wrapping my head around the idea that he truly believes what he writes. He seems to be well educated, judging from his use of English, and I would love to actually carry on a discussion. He just makes it almost impossible.
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
10. My favorite comment was from 71 year old lady.

"There's a lot of people who feel they ought to strap them to their hip, I guess. I think that's just for cowboys. I like the way it is, civilized" .

She'd crackup from the cowboys here.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Oh, Hoyt, always with the insults. I guess you have no real argument left.
Watching you sink into the mud like this really is sad.
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. Hey, just quoting the 71 year old lady who pegged you and many other pro-gunners here.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. And the dishonesty contiunues.
You made it up, and added the non-quoted insult as well.


Your dishonesty is disgusting, hoyt, and you no longer have any credibility.
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. What "dishonesty?" The 71 year old lady is right about the cowboys.

Guess it hits home.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. And MORE insults! What a piece of, uh, work you are.
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DonP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. Was she signed up for Kansas Voters CCW class too?
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Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Actually the 71 y/o lady has a CCW and carries in her purse.
Her opinion was not on those who carry in public, but those who open-carry. Her comments were that concealed carry was civilized. Her quote was taken out of context from the article.
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. It was not taken out of context. She thinks open carryis "uncivilized." So do I. CC is no better.

The one redeeming thing about women carrying is that they aren't likely to play cowboy, they don't obsess over guns, they are much less likely to be attracted to hi-cap mags, and supposed sexy (according to the gunners) looking killing weapons that manufacturers market to appeal to their baser instincts, etc. Unfortunately for too many males, it is some pseudo-macho thing.

Try leaving them at home. Society and you will be better off for it.
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Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Not taken out of context? Let's see...
Your Post:
My favorite comment was from 71 year old lady.

"There's a lot of people who feel they ought to strap them to their hip, I guess. I think that's just for cowboys. I like the way it is, civilized" .

She'd crackup from the cowboys here.


Now from the article:
Vicki Keefer, 71, has carried a gun in her purse about 20 years, at first because she worked late at night in an area that had some crime.

"As you get older, particularly as a woman, you look like prey. A lot of them are cowards; they're not going to pick a big strong man."

She's not crazy about the idea of open-carry laws being considered in the state Legislature.

"There's a lot of people who feel they ought to strap them to their hip, I guess. I think that's just for cowboys. I like the way it is, civilized."

Keefer grew up in a hunting family and is comfortable around firearms, but is sympathetic to those who aren't.

"There are some who are just terrified of them. I understand that. But I also understand that the people who go to the trouble of going through the background checks, taking the course - we're not the people committing the crimes."


"Try leaving them at home. Society and you will be better off for it." Society will neither benefit, nor be injured by my choices to carry or not to carry.
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Actually your and others choice to have a gun in their waistband will harm society.

We don't need people growing up thinking guns are the answer. We don't need people growing up seeing people parade around with guns like it is perfectly acceptable to anyone but the 3% or so of our population who cannot walk out of their house with one or more guns. We've been glamorizing these things too long and it is time to change. One of these days you'll realize the 300,000,000 plus who aren't afraid to walk down the street without a gun are right.

As to the lady, she said open carry is not civilized. I agree. I think she is also wrong about concealed carry. Not so much as practiced by most women, but as practiced by men who think they are trained to handle a situation when they have done little more than plink away at paper targets, and pose and practice their fast draw in front of a mirror. I'd rather folks like that just leave the dang things at home. But, I know that most of the 3% can't.
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Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. My thoughts on your comments.
Edited on Mon Apr-04-11 05:37 PM by Glassunion
"Actually your and others choice to have a gun in their waistband will harm society."
I disagree. Those of us who make the choice to carry and go through the processes of being licensed to do so will cause no detriment to society.

"We don't need people growing up thinking guns are the answer."
I'm afraid that sometimes guns are the answer. It is a fact that the police cannot be everywhere at once. It is a fact that there are at least 30,000 gangs operating in the United State. It is a fact that these gangs feed the illegal drug trade. It is a fact that violent crime happens in America to fuel this drug trade. It is a fact that if every single person who has a CCW left their gun at home tomorrow, people would still die, people would still be attacked and society would not benefit from it one little bit. Criminals will still do criminal things no matter what the law states. How would taking a gun from my hand prevent criminal activity?

"We don't need people growing up seeing people parade around with guns like it is perfectly acceptable to anyone but the 3% or so of our population who cannot walk out of their house with one or more guns."
We see the police walking around with firearms all the time. Even in England they have been arming their police for quiet some time now. For some reason those damn criminals can still get guns. Why is that do you suppose? What's the difference?

"We've been glamorizing these things too long and it is time to change." I agree... We should write a letter to Hollywood.

"One of these days you'll realize the 300,000,000 plus who aren't afraid to walk down the street without a gun are right." I'm never afraid to walk down the street without a firearm. My occupation takes me across state lines where I cannot bring a firearm at all. But the one time I "needed" a firearm, I did not have one. The people we pay and who have sworn a vow to protect and serve did not show up for hours while I lay in a ditch with a fractured skull. Where were they when I needed help and I was in mortal danger?

"As to the lady, she said open carry is not civilized. I agree." I am not a fan of open carry, but I would not go so far as to say it is uncivilized.

"I think she is also wrong about concealed carry." I don't

"Not so much as practiced by most women, but as practiced by men who think they are trained to handle a situation when they have done little more than plink away at paper targets, and pose and practice their fast draw in front of a mirror." I think you've seen too many movies. This is a shallow attempt at belittling those who make the choice to carry by trying to paint them as some Dirty Harry wanna-be and has no basis in reality.

"I'd rather folks like that just leave the dang things at home. But, I know that most of the 3% can't." Do me a favor, when you figure out how to get every gun, out of every criminal's hands and get them to stop being criminals. And when the police lay down their firearms as well... I will lay mine down with them.
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Not movies. I've known lots of toters and not a one should be carrying in public.
I'd also suggest you try to think long-term. You are correct, if you left your gun at home tomorrow, bad things would still happen. But, if you and the others on here who run out and by the latest killing machines, and tricked out accessories quit -- several decades from now there would be a lot less guns to worry about. Instead, the gun obsessed keep adding to their cache, keep supporting the NRA and other lobbyist, and many on here make part of their living from guns.

Sorry about your incident, and glad you are OK, but would a gun really have made a difference? In most cases, it would not.

As to police carrying weapons, I've never felt threatened by one. And, I would hope you don't plan on using your gun on one for whatever reason you feel threatened.
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Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. I've known lots of toters and all of them should be carrying in public.
So we negate each other's anecdotal evidence.

I have thought long term. Since the dawn of time the strong have preyed on the weak. There is nothing any of us can do before the fact but to prepare. There is no magical pill to prevent the strong from hurting or killing the weak. So, as throughout all of known history, a bad person commits an act of evil, then we send out the strong to bring justice. Does not change the fact that the weak were preyed upon.

Yes a gun and the training I have since received would have made a difference. To me this is a fact.

Why if you are so afraid of people carrying guns are you not bothered by the police? Don't they go home and practice their quick-draws in the mirror? Or are they somehow immune to the magical influence of firearms?

I think you may have misunderstood my last comment. I never, in anyway whatsoever have even thought of using my firearm on a police officer. We are on the same side. My comment was basically if you could find a way to end crime, I would gladly stop carrying if the police felt it safe enough to do so. Get that other thought out of your head.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. If the police are violating your Civil Rights with deadly force....
there is court precedent that says it is legal to defend yourself with lethal force.

And there is a long history of minorities (and non-minorities) having their lives violated by a small subset of police. Or maybe you've just ignored those inconvenient facts....
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friendly_iconoclast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. If you ever presented some empirical evidence for your claims, you might be listened to.
But you never have, not once.

In effect, you are a Puritan on the subject of guns, doing "God's work" as you see it.


Thus you are treated the same as those who congregate around abortion providers with photos of aborted fetuses, or the Westboro

assholes who protest at funerals.


And you should be so treated, as you differ from those sorts solely in your object of obsession.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #32
40. No misandry there, uh-uh...
Sheesh, open carry bigotry on a progressive website... are you sure you're in the right place?
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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
34. this is your comment, right?
"She'd crackup from the cowboys here"

So you are not "just quoting the 71 year old lady" you are throwing in your own little jab.
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Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
23. So what she is saying is that concealed carry is civilized?
I can agree with her sentiment. It is civilized.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
14. I wonder who the reporter pictures as the typical concealed weapons permit holder in Florida ...
Tuttle is 24, a banker. She knows she perhaps doesn't represent the image that comes to mind when picturing someone with a concealed weapons permit.

State figures show 81 percent of those with concealed weapons permits are men, and by far the majority is middle-aged and older.

from the article in the OP: http://jacksonville.com/entertainment/2011-04-03/story/...


There's nothing unusual about a banker or any other professional person having a carry permit in the Sunshine State. There is also nothing unusual about a woman having a carry permit and the number of women who have one is growing.



source: http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/stats/cw_holders.html
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #14
33. I think there is a photo of one in the article. Folks like that make me laugh in disbelief..
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #33
43. If it's the picture of the guy with a revolver stuck in the watch pocket of his pants ...
my advice to him would be to invest in a good holster. There are supposed to be four pictures but both Firefox and Internet Explorer are refusing to show me the next three.
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
20. 'they felt safer with their guns, even if they'd never felt a need to take the weapon out'
Perfectly 'rational.'

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Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. I feel safer with a fire extinguisher even though I've never needed to take it out of my trunk.
Edited on Mon Apr-04-11 12:08 PM by Glassunion
I felt safer driving to work today with my seat belt on, even though I never used it.
I felt safer locking the doors to my house last night, even though no one tried to break in.
I felt safer swimming on vacation in the ocean with a lifeguard nearby even though I never made him get out of his chair.

Technically I did not "need" any of those things. Problem is, even though the probability is quite low, the consequence is quite high. If you wait until the moment of "need" it is too late and will do you no good.
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TPaine7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Gun control is its own universe, with unique rules of logic, physics and morality. n/t
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Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Hmmm?
Logic: We must get rid of guns because a deranged lunatic may go on a shooting spree at any time and anyone who would own a gun out of fear of such a lunatic is paranoid.
OR
Most people can't be trusted, so we should have laws against guns, which most people will abide by because they can be trusted.
OR
Private citizens shouldn't have handguns, because they aren't "military(militia) weapons", but private citizens shouldn't have "assault rifles'', because they are military weapons.

Physics: An intruder will be incapacitated by tear gas or oven spray, but if shot with a .357 Magnum will get angry and kill you.
OR
Guns are so complex that special training is necessary to use them properly, and so simple to use that they make murder easy.
OR
Police officers have some special Jedi-like mastery over handguns that private citizens can never hope to obtain.

Morality:Ordinary people in the presence of guns turn into slaughtering butchers but revert to normal when the weapon is removed.
OR
"Assault weapons" have no purpose other than to kill large numbers of people. The police need assault weapons. You do not.
OR
A woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet.
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rrneck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Well said. nt
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Well, everyone 'needs' to 'feel' something.
Some 'needs' to 'feel' get a special disposition.

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russ1943 Donating Member (405 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
44. To shoot back talkin kids.
Edited on Tue Apr-05-11 10:10 PM by russ1943
By Elena Arteaga - Web Producer
Monday, January 31, 2011 - 5:17pm
TAMPA, FLA A Florida woman was ordered held without bail after investigators said she killed her two teenage children for back-talking.

Julie Powers Schenecker, 50, made her first court appearance in court on Monday.

Police said Schenecker shot her 13-year-old son, Beau, in the head twice for talking back as they drive Thursday evening. Schenecker then drove home, police said, and shot her 16-year-old daughter Calyx in the face as she was doing homework at her computer.

http://www.ktsm.com/news/florida-mom-shoots-kills-teena...
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friendly_iconoclast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. -1 to you. Schenecker didn't have a concealed weapons permit
Nothing like exploiting tragedy to promote a political agenda.
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