A Legacy of Injustice: The California "Assault Weapons" Control Act 20 Years Later

[Atypical Liberal]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14URdqHJRcQ

[bluestateguy]

1. I'm sure all the criminals lined up to turn in their illegal weapons when the ban went into effect

Right? That's what happened, right?

[right2bfree]

87. Yes. More then a few gun owners have gone to prison for owning an AW in CA. nt

[SlimJimmy]

2. Both of these are picture of the mini-14 rifle. Just because it

looks like an assault rifle, doesn't make it one.

[rl6214]

5. I was doing some traveling in my RV a few years back

and I had one of my evil AR15s with me as I traveled into and through California. They probably would have had a heart attack if they only knew the evil I brought into their land.

[SlimJimmy]

20. Yep, evil lurks in the RKBA crowd.

:)

[rl6214]

110. Only sometimes

Normally when I am carrying one of my black rifles (AR15s).

[Hoyt]

6. That's what the marketeers and manufacturers depend on. "Assault" sells. Ban em.

These types of guns merely enable one's obsession with killing machines. Ban em now, and years down the road we'll be better off. If don't ban em, tax the crud out of them -- 10 X more than now.

[rl6214]

8. Please point out when and where any of these

assault "killing machines".

You can find some solid facts, right?

Cite them for me, I would like to see them.

And you can't tax something out of exisistance.

[Hoyt]

10. Can't tell what your question is. The fact is, IMO, if one wants one of these it isevidence . . .

. . . . . one has a problem with guns and society should be careful allowing that one to feed their sick addiction. I realize that's a catch 22 for some here, but maybe one like that shouldn't be allowed to own guns. What friggin use is that thing to anyone with a rational mind? Get into muzzle loaders or something if you like to shoot targets or game (as a challenge or to eat).

But if one gets a kick out of those, they gotta be on a watch list or something.

[rl6214]

14. Dropped part of the question

what I meant was to please cite when and where any of these assault killing machines was ever used in a crime. It hasn't happened so what is the problem. Why is it a "sick addiction" to like this type of weapon over anything else? Your opinion? Dosen't matter as far as I am concerned. Show where you can prove that "one gets a kick out of those" and why it would be any worse than getting a kick out of anything you enjoy doing. Your bias against these or any type of gun has no effect on the hobby, sport, culture that you don't participate in. Maybe YOU should be the one on the watch list.

[DonP]

22. I "feel" the same way about people that post their fevered imaginings online too

It's just that silly 1st amendment thing that should have some limits.

People that imagine shit, then post it as if it's real should be on some kind of watch list too. They shouldn't have access to computers or radio stateions and blogs and should never be allowed to own word processing software without a license. They just aren't competent or trustworthy.

So we've established that scary looking guns that are seldom, if ever, used in crimes frighten you, how do you feel about spiders?

[lawodevolution]

36. Your opinion is irrelevant because my opinion negates yours; however, no amount

Of opinions negate facts and you have no facts.

We should not tax or suppress civil liberties.

[Hoyt]

39. Owning -- and, worse, carrying massacre type weapons in public -- is not a "civil liberty."

[oneshooter]

40. What are "massacre type weapons"? n/t

[PavePusher]

48. Cite to evidence? n/t

[rl6214]

53. There you go again, trying to inflame by using

frankly STUPID descriptions of the most commonly used rifles on the market today. Asked earlier but not replied to by you, WHEN AND WHERE has there ever been a "massacre" using any of these weapons?

Cite please or you are, at the least just here to inflame, at the worst, a flat out liar.

[krispos42]

85. Wow, you'd be really fun on an election board in Cuba

You're here to vote? That implies criticism of the State, that you are unhappy with the State, and the State and the people it represents need to keep an you. In fact, maybe those that are obsessed with perceived imperfections in the State should not be permitted to vote, as that indicates a less than rational mind, and such a mind able to vote can cause damage to the State by selecting the wrong people, dangerous people, to run it.


Move along, citizen.

[rl6214]

88. Cuba has election boards?

I thought it would be perfect for him because he could just sit on a board and send down directives to the peons below him.

[pipoman]

94. I'm sure you feel the same about....

The fact is, IMO, if one wants one of these it isevidence . . .

. . . . one has a problem with cars and society should be careful allowing that one to feed their sick addiction. I realize that's a catch 22 for some here, but maybe one like that shouldn't be allowed to own cars. What friggin use is that thing to anyone with a rational mind? Get into Model Ts or something if you like to race or drive (as a challenge or to get from point a to point b).

But if one gets a kick out of those, they gotta be on a watch list or something.





. . . . one has a problem with women and society should be careful allowing that one to feed their sick addiction. I realize that's a catch 22 for some here, but maybe one like that shouldn't be allowed to date. What friggin use is that thing to anyone with a rational mind? Get into swimming or something if you like to look at women or flirt (as a challenge or to score).

But if one gets a kick out of those, they gotta be on a watch list or something.




. . . . . one has a problem with ATVs and society should be careful allowing that one to feed their sick addiction. I realize that's a catch 22 for some here, but maybe one like that shouldn't be allowed to own ATVs. What friggin use is that thing to anyone with a rational mind? Get into go cartts or something if you like to drive off road or race (as a challenge or to round up your cows).

But if one gets a kick out of those, they gotta be on a watch list or something.





Oh, and you f%*king kids....get off my lawn!!1!!11!

[DissedByBush]

103. The "assault" one is more ergonomic and flexible

It has a telescoping stock to make it easier for those of us with short arms, or smaller people especially women, to shoot.

Many people find the pistol grip much more natural and comfortable.

The rails allow for the easy attachment of a scope and a bipod.

All of that makes for an excellent target rifle, little use as a supposed "assault weapon" especially since it is still semi-automatic.

But if you're looking for a sniper rifle this is a poor choice no matter what. A straight .308 hunting rifle is much better for that.

People who need mental help are those with an irrational fear of guns.

Especially those who refuse to be educated on an issue and still think they're qualified to comment on it.

[X_Digger]

9. Guns should be uncomfortable to shoot, and inaccurate, too!

That's the ticket. Sandpaper on all the stocks so that they scratch your cheek!

:crazy:

You do realize that a collapsible stock is for comfort / adaptability to different people / adaptability to winter clothes as well as summer, right? Pistol grips are more comfortable for shooting from the shoulder than a straight grip. You knew that, right? And rails allow the mounting of weapons lights (for positive identification of a target so as not to shoot your kid / spouse in the middle of the night) or bipods to make them more accurate.

Here's an experiment that you can do to demonstrate the utility of pistol grips (to focus on one of the above characteristics.)

First, take a full, unopened soda can in your dominant hand. Grip it around the middle as though you were going to take a drink. Tip it horizontal, and hold it at waist level. Feels comfortable, right? It lines up with the normal lay of your arm / hand. Now take that same can, and still holding it horizontally, bring it up to your face to look at the bottom of the can. Notice how your hand is at an awkward angle? A horizontal grip is better at waist level, correct?

Now, open the soda. Holding it vertical, bring the label of the soda to shoulder level. Your hand is in a normal position, unlike the horizontal can earlier. Lower the can to waist level, keeping it vertical- don't spill any, now. Notice how uncomfortable it is to try to hold it at your waist while remaining vertical?

That's what a pistol grip on a rifle does. It makes it more ergonomic when holding it up to your shoulder. A straight-stocked gun is more comfortably held at waist level than one with a pistol grip.

[Hoyt]

11. "Comfort." Planning on shooting it from your recliner? Make it comfortable to commit a massacre?

Craziest thing I've heard -- gotta make it comfortable to shoot a mugger and two or three in the back running away. Folks who want those things are a symptom of how bad our obsession with these things really is.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hoyt]

13. I suppose "good policy" would be to promote ownership of such weapons.

[rl6214]

16. For those that may want them, why not?

Come up with a calm, not snarky, reasonable arguement on the issue with research, facts, figures. Betcha can't.

[rl6214]

15. Come on, get serious

No one can take you seriously with posts like this. Is your hatred of the gun culture that intense that you feel the need to make stupid posts like this? You don't even make an attempt to engage in reasonable debate. All you can seem to do is make snarky comments in an attempt at veiled insults. Pathetic.

[Hoyt]

26. Get serious about what? Folks who covet such guns should get serious.

We live in a society, and such guns have no place. We'd be better off without them and the so-called "gun culture" ought to be taking the lead on that. Instead, they promote expansion.

[rl6214]

54. These guns are the most commonly used rifles on the market today

so for you to say these guns have no place in our society is just a flat out lie. If the voting public says there is a place for them, it is not up to YOU to say what is or is not acceptable. You may be better off with them but the voting public does not agree with you.

[Hoyt]

113. Of course they are popular among you guys -- marketing terms like "TACTICAL" spur sales.

And that's my point -- who needs a dang TACTICAL weapon, much less multiple ones. If TACTICAL weapons turn one on, maybe they shouldn't be allowed to own a gun in our society.

I'm still convinced that the permitting process should include hooking applicants up to electrodes and showing them photos of tactical and other weapons. If the needle or digital readout goes too high -- application denied.

[right2bfree]

17. I hope Obama can get this new Assualt Gun Ban through Conress soon. nt

[TheWraith]

19. The Republican Party thanks you for your support.

Unfortunately for them, President Obama is not so stupid as to do something so massively unpopular with voters.

[benEzra]

71. An "assault gun" is something else entirely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_gun



As to banning civilian rifles with handgrips that stick out, why? Rifles are the least misused class of weapon in the United States. More Americans are murdered annually using shoes and bare hands, never mind knives and clubs.

FBI Uniform Crime Reports, Table 20, Murder, by State and Type of Weapon

Compare the "Rifles" column to the other columns. I suspect you may be surprised.

[X_Digger]

25. Are you saying that guns should be uncomfortable and harder to control? Really?

Why?

By what moral precept do you assert such?

[PavePusher]

31. We should put a less comfortable, less ergonomic seat in your car.

'Cause that will decrease traffic accidents.

Your obsession lacks any connection to logic and reality.

[DissedByBush]

104. Comfort means accuracy, all shooters know that

The first criteria in choosing a gun is if it feels comfortable TO YOU.

It can have all the highest specs and recommendations in the world, but lack of comfort TO YOU is an instant veto over anything else.

This is why I personally will likely never own a high-capacity pistol. It makes the grip too fat, which is uncomfortable to me.

Get educated on the subject or quit posting about it.

[BoWanZi]

18. Did you even watch the video? Your posts ooze ignorance about guns.

Its actually rather sad to read posts such as yours.

[oneshooter]

29. I believe that it oozes brown organic fertilizer. n/t

[SlimJimmy]

21. The mini-14 at the top is one of the rifles used by many police departments

along with a standard riot shotgun. It's hardly an assault weapon. Your explanation and solution are part and parcel of the problem with those that are "anti-RKBA". You clearly don't understand the difference between an actual assault rifle and a self defense weapon.

[oneshooter]

23. If you "Ban em now" how would you pay for them?

Average price is $850 and there are a LOT of them.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Atypical Liberal]

24. So what if "assault" sells? You going to ban "assault" movies, too?

I have no doubt that lots of people buy things because of perceived image. Everything from watches to cars. No doubt people are drawn to the "assault" image of assault firearms, too. Of course, these sorts of firearms were relatively obscure before the first Assault Weapons Ban catapulted them into the limelight. Now, people have discovered that the AR-15 platform is tough, accurate, powerful, and easily configurable, so much so that it has now become the most popular center-fire target rifle in America.

But none of this is any reason to ban them. The fact of the matter is, according to the FBI's UCR data, each year hands and feet kill more people than all rifles combined, let alone assault rifles.

[Hoyt]

27. Maybe the so-called "gun culture" needs to reevaluate what attracts them to such guns.

[DonP]

28. No, we don't need to, we already know.

You just don't seem able to grasp the obvious even when it's put in front of you in 72 point bold faced type.

Thankfully, there are fewer and fewer of you all the time.

Maybe someday soon we can put a couple of you in a museum exhibit, with other obsolete characters with funny, antiquated beliefs, you can go right next to the flat earth society and the most recent president of the John Birch society.

[Atypical Liberal]

37. Why?

If they aren't doing anything harmful, who cares what their motives are?

The fact is, All rifles, let alone "assault rifles", are hardly ever used in crime. Less people are killed each year by all rifles combined than hands and feed.

I own firearms for a variety of reasons. I like being prepared. I admire the mechanical engineering and ingenuity that goes into them. I enjoy the craftsmanship and artistic work that goes into them. I enjoy their historical significance. I enjoy their connection to members of my family, living and dead. I enjoy the mental and physical challenge of accurately shooting them.

All of these are valid reasons to own something, and I'm sure there are many others. But as long as I'm not harming anyone, my reasons don't matter.

[Hoyt]

38. They are harmful folks. They perpetuate aspects of "gun culture" that aren't good for society.

If you guys would quit thinking about just yourself and the lust for massacre type weapons, you might see that guns like that -- just like fur coats, Hummers, corporate greed, profit driven medicine, corporate campaign financing, etc. -- are not good for society (even if "legal").

[oneshooter]

41. Again, what are "massacre type weapons"? n/t

[X_Digger]

43. It's emo-twaddle.. 'my morals are better than your morals' crap.

Society doesn't get to ban things just because you're offended.

If there's not a statistically significant harm represented, you don't get to ban something just because you 'wet your pants and run like a little girl' when you see it.

[Hoyt]

50. What BS, XD. Show me yours and see if I run.

Smokers have to go outside. Gas guzzlers get taxed. People who wear mink coats get paint thrown on them. Loud talkers get escorted out of movies. Shouldn't someone sporting a weapon like those shown here, get at least the same? I think so.

[X_Digger]

52. Smoking is proven dangerous, mink coats aren't banned. Try again.

Your 'tacky' schtick doesn't work for public policy.

Your 'delicate sensibilities' are not grounds for doing jack shit.

Free clue- the rifles you're so scared of? Are the best-selling rifles in the country.

Pull up a rocking chair and talk with the other old farts about the 'good old days'. Just like hunters in the 50's moved to semi-automatic rifles based on the garand, much to the dismay of the old farts of their time- today's hunters and sport shooters are choosing modern rifles based on the AR and AK platform.

[Hoyt]

57. You don't see many mink coats nowadays. One day, guns like your favorite will be viewed the same.

Sure, there may be 4% of the population who get great satisfaction from them. We just need to keep them out of public places where caressing them just ain't right or proper.

[X_Digger]

59. Can't stick to one topic, eh?

You just keep on dreaming, wishing, and hoping.

The rest of us will move forward, not clouded in the fog of nostalgia.

Modern rifles will be the de facto choice for a larger and larger section of people. Why would someone want to go backwards, to a rifle that's less comfortable, less accurate, less extensible, more maintenance intensive, heavier, and easier to scratch up?!?

[Hoyt]

61. Maybe folks who don't believe they need a weapons cache to live in today's society.

I can tell you would find it difficult to go on living unless you have a bunch of massacre type weapons close by.

Fortunately, most of us don't feel that way. Hopefully, we can counter those who attempt to promote such ownership for personal profit, or to feel better about their peculiar and deadly habit.

[rrneck]

63. Conquering evil one anyonomous snark at a time.

You GO boyee.

[Katya Mullethov]

65. How will we kill ourselves if they took away our guns and made us want to kill ourselves ?

What Machiavellian cruelty . I am impressed .

[Hoyt]

101. That is frightening. But I am not so much against guns at home, your concern being one reason.

[Katya Mullethov]

108. I do ghost writing of hyperbolic prose

If you are need of material , we take plastic over the phone .

[oneshooter]

66. Once again, please define "massacre type weapons " for us. n/t

[X_Digger]

68. More emo-twaddle? Is that all you have?

Why would someone want to go back to old, less reliable technology?

Do you also bemoan "new-fangled computer controlled cars" as well?

Does the phrase "get off my lawn" come out of your mouth on a regular basis?

[rl6214]

72. STILL waiting for you to cite

when and where any of these evil massacre type of weapons has actually committed a, well, massacre.

Still waiting

and waiting

and waiting.

[one-eyed fat man]

84. High power matches

Go shoot a rifle match...a real one. If you want to be competitive you will shoot something based on the AR platform. Even at Camp Perry it has gotten to where M1A's and M14 have "nostalgia" matches, much like the Garand matches.

You either shoot an AR or you lose to one.

[cleanhippie]

107. Why is it ALWAYS an insult and a sexual reference with you , Hoyt? Really, what the fuck?

All of your posts have devolved into insults and/or sexual references. What the fuck, man?

[PavePusher]

98. People who throw paint on mink coats get arrested.

And hopefully sent to jail and/or fined.

[Atypical Liberal]

44. In what way are the bad for society?

They are harmful folks. They perpetuate aspects of "gun culture" that aren't good for society.

If they are not breaking the law, how does being a Rambo wannabe make someone a harmful person, and how is it bad for society?

[PavePusher]

47. Cite some evidence to support your assertions.

You keep making claims without evidence.

[right2bfree]

86. Massacre-type weapons is a good term for guns with large magazines.

We should start using that term more often.

[rl6214]

89. I have and can put a 5 round magazine on my ar for hunting

Does that mean it is no longer a "massacre-type weapon"?

And again, I asked earlier and didn't get an answer, and maybe you have the guts to answer it:

When and where has any "massacre" occured with any of these "massacre-type weapons"? Cite them please, we all are waiting.

[PavePusher]

99. How do you define "large magazines"? n/t

[right2bfree]

109. Right on! Every other nation in the world has strict laws on gun ownership, but the US....

time for a _big_ change in that nonsense!

I have had about enough of all this carnage.

[rl6214]

55. Maybe YOU need to reevaluate what any of these guns have

to do with, really anything.

You still haven't come up with a cite as to when and where one of these rifles has been used in a crime, an assault, an accidental shooting...

[Hangingon]

33. If you want to ban something, ban the video games my

grandchildren and their friends love to play. They are presently age rated and many parents forbid them but kids still play them.

[Hoyt]

51. Let's hope kids don't act the videos out when they get older using these weapons designed to appeal

to such behavior. Good that parents ban them, even if some kids do play them. Sanctioning such behavior doesn't help.

So in the spirit of agreement -- Ban violent videos and the weapons manufacturers design to appeal to one's baser instincts.

[Hangingon]

58. I have no desire to limit or ban weapons.

Do not take my suggestion as agreement.

[DissedByBush]

105. Penn & Teller did a great one on that

They found a kid who loved to play violent shoot-em-up games, was very good at them.

They gave him a chance to fire a real rifle, an AR-15, the civilian variant of the M-16, which shoots a rather low-powered rifle round (not even allowed for deer hunting in most states because it isn't powerful enough).

It scared the hell of of him and he started crying profusely.

Violent video games doesn't necessarily translate into real-world like for guns.

[PavePusher]

30. So, now you want to ban firearms over a marketing term?

You have no credibility here.

P.S. Please cite to where "assault" or "assault weapon" or some variation is used as a marketing/advertising term by a firearm manufacturer. I got a warm cup of spit that says you can't.

P.P.S. Please tell us which of the following is/is not a legitimate firearm for hunting, or any other legal purpose, and the reason why:

http://www.remington.com/product-families/firearms/centerfire-families/bolt-action-model-700.aspx

http://www.remington.com/product-families/firearms/centerfire-families/pump-action-model-7600.aspx

http://www.remington.com/product-families/firearms/centerfire-families/autoloading-model-750.aspx

http://www.remington.com/product-families/firearms/centerfire-families/autoloading-model-r-25.aspx

[Hoyt]

42. Marketing term that appeals to the baser instincts of those that covet such weapons.

I think that is a concern. Would be to me if I suddenly woke up and said: "I gotta have one of those mass massacre weapons." "I can't live without one." "I gotta run down to the range and see how many shots I can pop into silhouette paper targets to prepare me for the day I might have to shoot a bunch of folks in 25 seconds."

[Atypical Liberal]

45. "baser instincts"?

Are you against the sale of other things that don't match your idea of morality? Sex toys (can't get a more base instinct that that)? Sports cars (old men recapturing their feeling of youth and recklessness)? Designer-label clothing (people who want to demonstrate how cool they are by the label on their clothes)?

Are you going to ban camouflage clothing for civilians, too, because they are playing wanna-be soldier? How about toy guns, swords, knives, and bows and arrows for all those little kids indulging in their baser instincts?

Come on. You can't ban things just because you don't like the motives that inspire other people to do things.

[PavePusher]

46. I ask again:

"P.S. Please cite to where "assault" or "assault weapon" or some variation is used as a marketing/advertising term by a firearm manufacturer. I got a warm cup of spit that says you can't."

[X_Digger]

49. Hrmm.. we've heard that term before.. 'baser instinct'..

Admit it, what was your previous DU username before tombstoning?

[Hoyt]

62. Never had previous name. But kudos to him if he expressed concern for those who covet such weapons.

[benEzra]

69. Ooooooo, "covet." Using fundy words again.

To underscore how "evil" those "idolaters" are who "covet" guns that look like they belong to this century and not the 19th.

The only problem with the "modern rifles are of the debbil" rhetoric is that rifles are the least misused class of weapon in the United States, as you well know.

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_20.html

Total murders...........................13,636.....100.00%
Handguns.................................6,452......47.32%
Firearms (type unknown)..................1,928......14.14%
Other weapons (non-firearm, non-edged)...1,864......13.67%
Edged weapons............................1,825......13.38%
Hands, feet, etc...........................801.......5.87%
Shotguns...................................418.......3.07%
Rifles.....................................348.......2.55%

I choose to own rifles with modern ergonomics, yes. I don't see any particular reason why civilian rifles have to have the aesthetics and ergonomics of an 1861 Henry or an early-1900s Mauser.

[rl6214]

73. Do you COVET often?

Most of us don't. Be snarky all you want. Work up your sctick like jpak has. You opinion is insignigicant and I don't doubt that anyone really cares what you have to say.

Snark out.

[X_Digger]

78. Why should guns be uncomfortable and inaccurate, again?

Hrmm?

Why should guns be heavy and prone to scratching?

Because you say so?

[rl6214]

56. You keep saying "mass massacre weapon"

That's a term YOU made up and a stupid one at that. A butter knife could be a mass massacre weapon in the right hands. You aren't going to say what makes a weapon a mass massacre weapon because you know you can't. That makes you a liar and a coward.

Prove me wrong.

[oneshooter]

60. I have asked him for a definition twice but he has ignored me.

He is a rude type of fellow.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Hoyt]

64. Pretty clear to me what I meant.

[oneshooter]

67. I really don't care what is clear to you. If you use a descriptive such as"massacre type weapons "

You are bound by polite conversation to offer a list of specific arms that you cover under this term.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Hoyt]

80. Why? You are just going to say that some folks like/covet guns manufactured for a massacre.

I think we should give folks like that help. You think we ought to keep supplying them guns that fulfill their baser needs.

[X_Digger]

81. You keep digging that hole.. "manufactured for massacre" -- LOL!!!

"*gasp* It has a collapsible stock! Get me an exorcist, it's from da debil!"

[rl6214]

90. Come on Hoyt, you keep referring to massacre-type weapons

You obviously know how to use the internet. When and where has there ever been a massacre with one of these massacre-type weapons. Find it, if you can. And then, you surely can find some reference to someone, somewhere that will admit to or show evidence of coveting one of these weapons. If you can't you are just exsposed for what you really are, a liar.

[benEzra]

70. Yes, you meant to imply that the least misused firearms

are the most likely to be misused. Which, of course, they aren't.

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_20.html

Total murders...........................13,636.....100.00%
Handguns.................................6,452......47.32%
Firearms (type unknown)..................1,928......14.14%
Other weapons (non-firearm, non-edged)...1,864......13.67%
Edged weapons............................1,825......13.38%
Hands, feet, etc...........................801.......5.87%
Shotguns...................................418.......3.07%
Rifles.....................................348.......2.55%

[Hoyt]

77. Don't mean to take away your toys, but I don't really think it is good to pander to folks baser

instincts by allowing such guns on the street. But, then if you'd like to use your stats -- let's ban handguns too. I'm tired of seeing them in family restaurants, public parks, etc. And many more are tired of it too.

[X_Digger]

79. 'such guns' -- define, please?

How many 'evil features' does your 'ebil' list have, eh?

This, but not that? Got some f'r'instance's?

[rl6214]

91. So you can see handguns in restaurants, public parks, etc?

Georgia is not a traditional open carry state. You have powers now that make it possible to see guns that are being carried concealed?

"and many more are tired of it too"
There have got to be news stories out there where the good citizens of Georgia are telling the world how tired they are of seeing these evil handguns in restaurants and public parks. Come on, you can find them. Or are you just lieing about this as well? I think so. We have stats on our side, what have you got, projections and lies.

[Hoyt]

112. Sorry, but you are wrong. Folks can -- and do -- open carry with a permit.

[benEzra]

96. "Baser instincts" like the desire for reliability, accuracy, and durability?

The instinct to adjust the stock so that it fits you? Or maybe the instinct not to have to stick your elbow out like a chicken wing to accommodate an archaic 450-year-old stock design?

Do you honestly think AR's dominate centerfire target shooting in the United States because competitors care more about "looking badass" than winning?

AR's are popular because they are uncannily accurate, the small caliber gives them good capacity and little recoil, ergonomics, and they can be configured into anything from a long range plinker to an in-home HD carbine by popping two pins and/or turning a few thumbscrews.

AR's are the most popular civilian rifles in the United States and are among the least misused of all weapons. It doesn't fit your fear memes, but it's the truth.

[rl6214]

74. Pretty clear to YOU what YOU meant

but to the rest of us who actually know something about firearms what you mean actually dosen't mean shit.

[Hoyt]

76. I've probably shot more firearms than you, from an Evans Repeater, to muzzle loaders and 1911s.

I know a gun manufactured to appeal to folks' baser instincts when I see one. How many do you have? And exactly what do you do with it?

[X_Digger]

82. Since you refuse to define it, then how can anyone answer your question?

How many do you have? And exactly what do you do with it?

Since you refuse to define then, then it's a pretty stupid question to ask how many a person has, isn't it?

[rl6214]

92. How many do I have?

At last count, 57.

I collect WW2 firearms.

I own 7 M1 Garands, 6 Russian Mosin Nagants, 2 German K98 Mausers, 2 British Enfields, 2 1911s.
Along with these WW2 rifles I have 7 Albanian sks, 1 Russian sks, 6 Yugoslavian sks and 2 Romanian sks.
Then if you want modern rifles I have built 8 AR15s, a couple of shotguns and a dozen or so handguns.

"I've probably shot more firearms than you"
I shoot nearly every weekend, do you? I have shot in local matches but haven't done so recently since I have had to have surgery on my left eye and have no vision in it right now. I am right eye dominant so it really dosen't affect my shooting. I buy bullets by the case. It's not uncommon for my sons and I to go out to the range and go thru 2000 rounds, which has gotten pretty expensive the last couple of years.

So I've shown mine, what do you have?

[Hoyt]

95. Good for you. Although such lists don't really impress.

Once I grew up and sold my dad's collection (mostly old muzzle loaders, guns from 1800s, and some nice target pistols like Hi-Standards, Model 25s), I only have a few left. Mostly six shooters made after 1940. They are plenty for home protection. In fact, my machete is probably even better.

[rl6214]

111. You asked, I replied. Had no desire to impress you

nor do I care.

[PavePusher]

97. Yes I love the fuck out of my Mosin-Nagant 91/30's

They should probably be banned for that... amIright?

[Name removed]

100. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PavePusher]

102. Well then, your telepathy is a Fail. Better work on that.... n/t

[DissedByBush]

106. I own a gun designed for rapid fire killing!

I love my Enfield, which is almost 100 years old.

Is that a "baser instinct" thing?

[russ1943]

75. Hoyt, you're right.

The idea of calling semi-automatic versions of military small arms "'assault weapons" did not originate with either anti-gun activists, media or politicians. The term "assault weapon" was first corrupted by importers, manufacturers, wholesalers and dealers in the American firearms industry to stimulate sales of selected "exotica"--firearms which did not have a traditional appearance. University of Dayton Law Review Symposium, Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, vol. 20, no. 2, 1995: 557. Joseph P. Tartaro, President Second Amendment Foundation, Executive Editor Gun Week.

http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/Tartaro1.htm

The article goes on to comment;

The fact that even some of the semi-automatic versions of the military-style firearms retained their bayonet lugs, extended pistol grips, "banana-clip" magazines, folding stocks and even threading for silencers and muzzle brakes has been used to erroneously define "assault weapons." But these design features were part of the Walter Mittyesque "romance" of what some like to call "ugly guns." All of these features are merely cosmetic and there is little if any evidence that their inclusion on a gun has been essential to some specific criminal use."

None of these features has contributed to the criminal misuse potential of these guns, but they do help them to look scarier to those who know little about firearms. With some in the firearms industry trying to sell the sizzle of guns that operated in exactly the same way as others that most people already owned by exploiting the term "assault weapon," the firearms community and industry were mortgaged to a long and expensive legislative, legal and public relations struggle.

[X_Digger]

83. Did you actually look at the "citation"?

{10} See SHOTGUN NEWS and other firearms publications beginning in the early 1980s.

aka.. pulled from the author's backside.

Try again.

[rl6214]

93. Do you read what ever you are citing?

The title says it all: "THE GREAT ASSAULT WEAPON HOAX"!

"All of these features are merely cosmetic and there is little if any evidence that their inclusion on a gun has been essential to some specific criminal use."

None of these features has contributed to the criminal misuse potential of these guns,but they do help them to look scarier to those who know little about firearms."

So you are getting your panties all in a wad about how a gun looks, not its actual use or function.

[Hoyt]

114. Yet, people gotta have one. Marketing terms like "tactical" increase sales.

Who the heck wants a gun because of it's tactical capabilities (real or unreal)? I'd say folks like Loughner, the wackos at Waco, Timmy McVeigh and other subversives, and dismal characters out of "The Turner Diaries."

[X_Digger]

115. Even your FUDD Friends are getting in on the act..

Here's Remington's new R-25



Pistol grip, collapsible stock, detachable magazine, bipod mount. *gasp*

Here's mossberg's new turkey shotgun



Pistol grip, collapsible stock, threaded muzzle break, no-scratch finish..

Even Benelli's getting into the act..



derp, fudds need ergonomics, too.

[Hangingon]

32. Watch the video again carefully.

California IS 20 years down the road and it is not better off because of this law.

[cleanhippie]

35. Projection in action.

:rofl:

[Katya Mullethov]

3. 50,000 dollars in legal fees and another 1000 to get the guns back

And he didnt do anything wrong .
Ya see , that right there is the kind of innovative thinking that is driving our national economic recovery .

[Hangingon]

34. Amen!

[X_Digger]

4. K&R! n/t

[slackmaster]

7. Powerful video. K&R!

:kick: