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Univ. of Tennessee faculty senate opposes guns resolution

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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 07:54 PM
Original message
Univ. of Tennessee faculty senate opposes guns resolution
http://www.wrcbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=14205158

KNOXVILLE, Tenn. (AP) - The University of Tennessee faculty senate has voted to oppose proposed changes to state laws that would allow permitted gun owners on the faculty and staff to carry handguns on campus.

<snip>

One bill, sponsored by state Sen. Stacey Campfield, R-moran-Knoxville, would allow full-time faculty and staff to carry guns on public college campuses where they work if they are not otherwise prohibited. The legislation has not been scheduled for a hearing in either the Senate or House judiciary committees.

Hank Dye, the university's vice president for government relations, said UT officials vehemently oppose the state bill and have talked with lawmakers.

The Tennessee Board of Regents is also opposed to such legislation.

<more>

The republican assault on higher education is not appreciated.

yup

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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. I could see a lot of professors changing their policies on office hours
As in refusing to see any student who the professor deems to be a nutjob.
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oneshooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
3.  Understanding what you read is pretty basic stuff....
"would allow permitted gun owners on the faculty and staff to carry handguns on campus."

No students, only faculty and staff would be allowed to CC, with the proper permits.


Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas
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petronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. Professors are pretty aware of those students now
Even if this applied to students, I don't see how it would change anything - if a student is unstable enough to shoot up the campus, the fact that it would be illegal to bring a gun to school isn't going to affect their behavior. On the other hand, the professor who needs to walk alone to a car at night, after just failing a potentially unstable student, might be glad of a tool for self-protection...
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speltwon Donating Member (699 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. Again, with the speculation... devoid of facts
Does this happen in states that allow CCW on campus? Do you have any evidence it does? Just what I thought. This isn't some kind of UNTESTED proposal. It's the law in numerous states.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
45. Fortunately every university in the country is a highly secure citadel
that rivals Fort Knox.

I had to pass through at least a dozen checkpoints on the way to lab this morning, complete with armed guards checking for any weapons and seeing my papers. The walls surrounding campus are over 100ft high and topped with barbed wire and have guard towers and spot lights every 50 yards. There is a moat at least 40 ft wide outside the walls, filled with boiling acid, and with only one bridge to cross it that is guarded by an entire battalion of special university police. 1 in 4 students in every classroom is actually a secret policeman working for the university and prepared to take down anyone who gets out of line.



You'd be better of trying to sneak in to west Berlin under the soviet occupation then to try getting in here with a gun.

So I know that as long as guns are banned on campuses no one will be able to bring one in. That's why school shootings have never occurred in this country. Not once.

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pscot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. The NRA is evil
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Why? Is it because they support the right to own firearms?
My daughter is quite possibly alive today because she had access to a firearm that she pointed at an intruder who was forcing the sliding glass door of our home open. The burglar alarm was sounding and there was a 60 pound Black Lab in the house, neither of which stopped the intruder.

The organization that fought for my rights to own the firearm which my daughter used is far from evil in my opinion.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #2
47. By that logic so is the ACLU
and NOW, and the NAACP, and any organization that stands up for the rights we fought so hard to secure.
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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
4. Still no solid argument against CCW on campus. No data presented that shows us there is a problem
At the schools that allow CCW already yet of the schools that do not allow CCW there are lots of mass shootings

No gun zones are safe zones for mass killers
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. This is solid evidence that the faculty don't want them on campus
yup
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. So school segregation would be O.K. with you as long as....
there was "solid evidence that the faculty don't want them on campus"?

I thought openly condoning or promoting bigotry was against the D.U. rules...?
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Guns on campus is not the same as segregation (which was supported by right wing gun carriers).

I wish you guys would quit making such comparisons. But, I guess when it comes to preserving the right to carry in public, you guys couldn't care less what rationale you use.
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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. African Americans armed themselves and used their 2A rights to protect themselves
During the civil rights movement. Imagine if we had strong gun control and like the late Egyptian president, the anti civil rights politicians of the time during the fight for civil rights had the power to make sure the African Americans and anyone supporting them were disarmed while those against the movement were the only ones armed. The civil rights movement was a fantastic example of how the 2A not only helped those seeking equal rights status but also helped reduce the potential violence.

The comparison the poster used was like during deseg the faculty had to accept it even though they were against it.
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. They dang sure deserved to protect themselves. But most in the movement were not toting.

Dangest thing I've heard. Surest way to the chain-gang where I'm from.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Would segregation be okay if people could change their skin color at will? n/t
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. Sorry -- not sure what you ask. But, I don't think short of tuberculosis I'd support segregation.

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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Well, a person can choose to be a gun-owner or a gun-toter
And you can change that status at pretty much any time. jpack keep saying that it's okay for the government to make "no gun" zones because some members of the public want those zones, and it's not like segregation because, apparently, it's just different.


So, would a "whites only" restaurant be okay if people could, chameleon-like, change their racial appearance at will?
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #27
34. I'm sorry man, segregation is pretty much wrong. But, OK to tell folks leave friggin guns at home .

That's not "segregation" any more than telling folks they can't smoke in most public places is. That's good for us and smokers -- or gun carriers -- need to learn some manners and think more about the long-term impact on society, not just their desires.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #34
60. Well, smokers create pollution. If cigarettes only exuded steam, for example...
...nobody would care if they smoked inside a bar.


But a firearm in the process of being carried doesn't create airborne pollution. It's inert. So the smoking analogy doesn't fit here.

Smoking isn't also specifically mentioned in the Constitution as a civil right.

And let's face it, if a gun is being carried concealed, then the people in the public places are unaware of and thus not influenced by the presence of the gun.

:shrug:

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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #17
55. Yeah - keeping guns off campus is just like segregaton - dumb
:rofl:
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. Keeping guns off campus may not be like segregation
But it certainly is impossible
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #55
61. How about public parks?
I mean, you do want areas, public areas of no special security status, as places where people can be free from gun-toters, right?
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DonP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #10
33. Your grasp of history sucks
Do a little research beyond reading bumper stickers on who actually was supporting segregation inthe '50's and '60s and read up on the "Dixiecrats". Here's a hint, the GOP provided the votes for the Civil Rights Act under LBJ. You may not like it, but its history.
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. Dixiecrats became Republicans after Civil Right Act. There's your history from S Thurmond.

And plenty more like him. In any event, right wingers are more likely to carry guns (and post on forums promoting carrying in more places).
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. Isn't it against the rules to imply that other DU members are right wing trolls?
Edited on Tue Mar-08-11 12:43 AM by RSillsbee
yet you do it frequently

NT
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. As do most folks when someone says right wingers passed Civil Rights.

I think I can defend anyone who says RWers were NOT the reason it passed.
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #39
44. So because others break the rules it's OK for you to do so?
Damn, how's that for some kindergarten logic?
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #7
54. What a really dumb post - when all else fails - play the race card
:rofl:
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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. The faculty can be replaced if they decide to quit
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #8
53. The over-arching strategy of the republican war on higher education
yup
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speltwon Donating Member (699 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. Yes, solid evidence that emotion, personal preference about others behavior
trump facts with these professors. Entirely ushocking...
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Hoopla Phil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
29. I have asked you many times without an answer from you. Please provide
incidents of problems where campus carry is already allowed.
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #29
56. Few do now - too small a sample size - but when the NRA/GOP has guns everywhere, there will be
yup
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Hoopla Phil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. LMAO. There is an entire state that allows for campus carry and you cannot
cite any problems. All you offer is magical prognostication based on nothing but your faith. So you admit that with all the colleges already allowing campus carry you, cannot find any incidents regarding a properly licensed adult causing a problem?

yup
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. That's it, let's wait until there is indisputable evidence that guns and campus life don't mix.

You think folks carrying and more guns will stop massacres? I don't.
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GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Armed citizens have already stopped several mass shootings. N/T
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pscot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Oh please
Share the links with us.
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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. "An Armed Citizen With A Permit Stopped The Last VA College Shooting Rampage"
"Jowyk began researching his law school's gun policy following the January incident in which a disgruntled student at Appalachian Law School, Peter Odighizuwa, allegedly shot and killed the school's dean, a professor and a student on campus before being subdued by two armed students, Mikael Gross and Tracy Bridges."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #14
46. OK. Here are some:
Pearl High School shooting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_High_School_shooting

Appalachian School of Law shooting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_School_of_Law_...

A Massacre We Didn't Hear About (Shoney's Anniston, AL) http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem...

Parker Middle School dance shooting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parker_Middle_School_dance...

Three Men Killed in Winnemucca Shooting on Sunday http://www.ktvn.com/Global/story.asp?s=8378732

Trolley Square shooting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_Square_shooting

Gun-shop employee prevents massacre http://gunsafe.org/The%20Armed%20Citizen/Gun-shop%20emp...

An armed citizen stopping a mass killer http://stephenewright.com/fromthebluff/2010/01/05/an-ar... /

There are web sites that collect and document such stories. I can easily post more stories.


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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
24. I guess the media is hiding that from us.
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Such as Jeane Assam?
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. I did not see much redeeming in those articles.
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GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #24
49. Murder averted doesn't sell like "Mass Murder" does.
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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. We already have evidence that no gun zones on campus attract the largest
Acts of mass violence that this country has experienced in recent times. Virginia tech, no gun zone and one of the worst mass violence events in recent history. Now your turn. Show me the problems they are having on universities that allow CCW on campus
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speltwon Donating Member (699 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. It's not what people think. It's what the evidence says
The reality, here in the reality based community, is that numerous campuses allow carry. And you have zero evidence that they are ANY more dangerous than those that prohibit it. It is also a fact that mass shootings have happened on campuses that ban firearms. Could one happen on a campus that allows carry? Sure. There is no specific evidence (causality necessarily established) that carry campuses have prevented mass shootings. However, there is substantial evidence that banning guns on campus has not prevented them. And that carry campuses haven't had the mass shootings.

That would lead somebody interested in facts to conclude at a minimum, that allowing carry would cause no harm.
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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. It does matter what the people think overall in the state but it does not
Matter what the faculty who live off our tax money think and their ignorant student body think if the people in the state want CCW in campus.
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. Sorry, I don't think a gun is an acceptable fashion/education accessory for college.
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speltwon Donating Member (699 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Well, there's another way to ignore evidence and rational discussion points
Refer to a gun as a "fashion accessory". Let's get back to the facts of the issue. Calling a gun a "fashion accessory" is especially ironic considering a concealed weapon can't be seen.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 06:42 AM
Response to Reply #25
42. Oh, we're back to "tacky" again, eh?
Circular reasoning, indeed.
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speltwon Donating Member (699 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #42
58. And many people think 2 gay men or even a hetero couple
kissing in public is "tacky" and unacceptable in public. And I say TOUGH SHIT
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #25
50. Guns may be 'tacky' in your opinion
but the ignorance-inspired fear that so many anti-gunners revel in is, in my opinion, far worse than any amount of tackiness.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #4
48. Data? Who needs data when you *feel* guns are evil?
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Hoopla Phil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
30. MLK and His Guns
Edited on Mon Mar-07-11 11:59 PM by Hoopla Phil
Most people think King would be the last person to own a gun. Yet in the mid-1950s, as the civil rights movement heated up, King kept firearms for self-protection. In fact, he even applied for a permit to carry a concealed weapon.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/adam-winkler/mlk-and-his-...

Humph! How about that. Might start another thread just on this topic.
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Bet he didn't carry one. But thanks for reminding us how vile the Klan was (gun carriers BTW).
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #31
36. Here's an MLK quote for you..
As we have seen, the first public expression of disenchantment with nonviolence arose around the question of "self-defense." In a sense this is a false issue, for the right to defend one's home and one's person when attacked has been guaranteed through the ages by common law.

Martin Luther King, Jr., Where Do We Go From Here: Chaos or Community? Chapter II, Black Power, Page 55, Harper & Row Publishers Inc., First Edition, 1967.

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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #36
40. Thanks X-D, but I don't think he meant to strap guns to our legs and walk through a park.
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #40
43. Then why did he apply for a concealed carry permit, eh? n/t
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #43
51. It was denied, of course, in Alabama. I doubt he carried -- but could you blame him?
Edited on Tue Mar-08-11 10:58 AM by Hoyt
And, he dang sure didn't strap one to his leg and walk around openly like you guys.

Next thing, you will tell us how Jesus frequented gun shows and carried on a regular basis.
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. So he wanted to carry, but was denied.
Which is quite different than not wanting to carry, n'est-ce pas?
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GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #31
62. He applied for a CCW. And the KKK was stopped by men with guns.
Specifically they were stopped by the Deacons For Defense And Justice.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
37. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
rrneck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
41. All you'd have to do
is duct tape the gun to a fucking football and they'd be fine with it.
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