Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Infringed: Rights shall not be

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU
 
BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-11 10:29 AM
Original message
Infringed: Rights shall not be

Can anyone describe the way the right to keep and bear arms is being infringed? Thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Drale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-11 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
1. I don't know, I don't own any firearms
but people seem to think the gobment wants to take their guns away. BTW did Yoda write your title? :rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-11 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
2. Slow walking approvals for permits
Imagine wanting to start a newpaper only to have the local government slow-walk business license because it disapproves the editorial slant. Imagine having to register every editorial published or being required to pay excessive taxes beyond comparable acts of free commerce.

And even if there were no current infringements that in no way implies current efforts to infringe do not exist. What the OP seems to suggest is, "There are no infringements so efforts to infringe should be ignored."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-11 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I am suggesting nothing
I am asking for the ways that you feel your rights are being infringed when it comes to guns as stated in the constitution.

There is no reason to attack me, y'know. Believe it or not, I am for rights being protected.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-11 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Fair enough. My apologies.
I've been told I have a newfound "zeal."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kennah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-11 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. I can attest to the permit approval process having issues in some states
I've lived in four Shall Issue states: Florida, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and Washington.

Washington and Pennsylvania were fine, although Dauphin County, PA did seem to wait the max number of days under law before they would issue.

Miami Dade County, Florida was pretty bad. Had to make an appointment to get my prints rolled, and it took about 6 weeks just to get an appointment. Showed up about 15 minutes early for the appointment, and they made me wait about 45 minutes PAST the time before they took my Driver's License, and kept it, to run a records check on me. After about an hour, they gave me back my License, and said keep waiting. Another 30 minutes later, they took my prints. Customer Service at the Miami Dade Police Department was sorely lacking.

Alamance County, North Carolina was the worst. Had to take North Carolina specific training, and it was a sad joke. Took about 3 months before I could get into a class. Got my certificate and went over to apply. I think the window of opportunity for me to apply, in Alamance County, was Tuesdays between about 10 AM and 12 Noon. Filled out the form, paid, and waited about 30-40 minutes. They then took me into the jail, through the double secured doors, to get my prints rolled. I found it strange that they never patted me down, and I could have smuggled a weapon into the jail.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-11 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. When I applied for my first concealed weapons permit in Florida ...
I had my prints rolled at the Pinellas Sheriffs office in Clearwater Florida. The wait time was minimal and I don't remember any records check being run at the Sheriffs office at all. Of course, the that was many years ago as I have renewed my license at least 2 concealed times.

I didn't have to get my fingerprints taken for the renewal. I have never had to take a concealed weapons training course as I was in the military and got my firearms training there.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YllwFvr Donating Member (757 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-11 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #2
20. The differences here in Pa are astounding
In my county the instant check system allowed me to go in and out with my permit in my hands in ten minutes.

The law states they must provide a permit in 45 days, not business days. Weekends count. Some counties take a full 45 business days to get you your license. They drag it out as long as they can just because. They also charge more than the law permits. But they are the law so that doesnt matter does it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-11 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
4. Come to DC some time
Edited on Thu Feb-10-11 10:44 AM by Recursion
It is still essentially impossible to legally own a handgun in your own home, and police (illegally) confiscate long guns if they're found in a home.

That's why there are no guns in the District :sarcasm:

As far as it being a national problem? Probably not. But in certain areas, the right is regularly and severely infringed. Sadly, these are often areas where people have a rather legitimate need for a gun for self-defense.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-11 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Thanks... good point
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-11 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Also, look at "may-issue" concealed carry states
Edited on Thu Feb-10-11 10:58 AM by Recursion
There is at least anecdotal evidence of racial and class bias in the issuing of the permits. I don't have any data for that; I'm also not sure if there is a right to the concealed bearing of arms. This will probably be the only time I ever quote Clarence Thomas approvingly, but his concurrence in DC vs. Heller was a very powerful recounting of the historical and continued use of gun control to disarm African Americans. The movement of southern states from "may issue" to "shall issue", while it caused a lot of hand-wringing in the north, is probably best seen as the South finally overcoming that vestige of Jim Crow.

EDIT: to clarify, as I understand case law there is currently definitely not a legally recognized right to concealed carry; I was just saying I'm not sure if I would consider it morally a right. This gets muddy in places like MA where the right to own a handgun is at least in practice tied to the right to concealed carry.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-11 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. DC is a damned good example..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

It took $833.69, a total of 15 hours 50 minutes, four trips to the Metropolitan Police Department, two background checks, a set of fingerprints, a five-hour class and a 20-question multiple-choice exam.


The cost of the gun? $275.

If someone can't afford the $550 on top of the cost of a gun? So sad, too bad. If you can't take off work during business hours for the four trips to the police department? Aww, poor baby.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-11 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
8. Getting a concealed-carry permit in most of California requires political connections
The system was designed for a time when the chief law enforcement officer was likely to know every citizen personally. We're not in Mayberry any more.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rrneck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-11 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. You're a marvel of understatement. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kennah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-11 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. The numbers are astounding
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/statistics.php

Less than 41K licenses in a state of 37M people.

Compare to Washington with about 250K licenses in a state of 6.7M people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oneshooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-11 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
9.  Chicago. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hoopla Phil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-11 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
10. First comes to mind the registration followed by the confiscation of
SKS type rifles in California. There was also an incident in Cali where a guy was arrested charged and convicted and served a year in jail for having an SKS rifle after the ban. Problem was, it was an antique rifle that was specifically exempted from the ban. He did eventually get out, and cleared.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-11 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
13. I'm sure that if
...one were to comb through the 22,000+ federal, state and local laws pertaining to firearms a few examples could be found.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-11 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
17. Anything that delays the purchase of or increases the price of a firearm
And I'm not talking about a 30 minute background check. I'm talking about wait periods, gun registration schemes, and when a permit or lisence is needed just to own a gun are all ways to delay or intimidate people from owning guns. Any fees associated with purchasing a firearm above the natural cost of the gun and ammo itself including taxes, fees charged to get a permit or lisence or fees when registering a firearm are gross violations of our rights. Any form of gun control that costs money needs to be covered by the government and not those who chose to buy the guns, if they are not willing to foot the bill for a gun control law then the law should not exist.

This is the same for all rights including religion and speech.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-10-11 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
18. My ability to purchase a new automatic rifle is being infringed upon.
Also, the fact that I have to pay an unusally large fee to own/use some number of acessories or firearms seem like infringement.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kudzu22 Donating Member (426 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-11 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
19. In Illinois we are not allowed to carry, period.
That's outright infringement of the right to bear arms. Apart from that we have to pay for a card that allows us to own guns & ammunition -- small infringement. We are not allowed to own any NFA item -- more infringement.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YllwFvr Donating Member (757 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-11 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
21. Other states permits
that our state recognizes allows people from around the country to carry here in Pa. Its state law. Philadelphia ignores that law and is trying to pass its own law saying out of state permits arent good in Philly. We also have a law stating that nobody but the state itself can pass firearms laws within Pa, but again, Philly doesnt care.

Also the state police here were enforcing for a short time a de facto registry of rifles and shotguns with a pistol grip, also openly violating state law. They made you fill out a pistol form for the rifle or shotgun, or made the gun dealers make you, or refuse the sale. We got them to drop that, but many were forced to go through the hoops anyway for that time period.

My local county park had a no firearms sign. They cant deny my right to carry for the same reason Philly cant deny Florida or Utah permits, and Ive gone to council meetings to point it out but they blew me off. I guess I will just have to be seen carrying there this spring!

Chicago gun ban, Detroit, DC, california permit farce, california open carry battle, New York 10 round mag limit
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Francis Marion Donating Member (188 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-11 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
22. Bans without due process of law.
Let's define infringement:

infringement (ĭn-frĭnjˈmənt)
noun
1.A violation, as of a law, regulation, or agreement; a breach.
2.An encroachment, as of a right or privilege. See Synonyms at breach.
Source: http://www.yourdictionary.com/infringement

Gun bans interfere with my "right to keep and bear" if I can not lawfully buy, own, or use, arms.

Gun bans, enacted on the whole of the people by legislature to take their guns away or outlaw their purchase or transfer: these are infringements because you should have to be convicted in a court of law, after receiving a jury trial, before society can take your rights away. That is the correct, fair, and constitutional way to take away a person's rights.

Just because a legislature 'doesn't like' one of your rights, they still have no justification for infringement of that right.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Sep 19th 2014, 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC