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virginia mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 08:25 PM
Original message
American Gun Shows supplying guns to Mexican drug cartels?!
These sold at US Gun Shows?!?! Gun Shows are the source of all this?!?!

a confrontation in January 2007, when heavily armed men in Mexican military uniforms fired on Texas officers with a .50-caliber machine gun mounted on a camouflaged Humvee


California police officers were arrested at the border Friday on charges of attempting to smuggle guns, ammunition and training materials into Mexico.


The incident occurred in the same area where heavily armed Mexican soldiers riding in a Humvee shot at a Border Patrol agent in 2002. A .50-caliber bullet ripped through the agent's rear window as he sped away.

Mexican officials denied at the time that the shooters were Mexican soldiers, saying they were criminals using military uniforms. It is a position they steadfastly have maintained.

But the agent who reported encountering the gunfire was certain he saw soldiers, said Mr. Tuffly. He said at the time that the agent was able to identify their attire "down to a T, and it matched exactly what they wear."


A year ago, U.S. law enforcement authorities were confronted by gunfire from automatic weapons as they chased and caught a drug-smuggling suspect in Texas trying to flee back into Mexico


hmmmm....

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/aug/06/soldier...
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. "Is the Flow of U.S. Weapons to Mexican Drug Cartels Increasing Under Obama?"
a recent Newsweek article...

The Mexican military has discovered a major training camp run by the notorious Zetas drug cartel and stocked with an arsenal of military weapons, including 140 semi automatic assault rifles and 10,000 rounds of ammunitionall of them believed to be purchased in the United States, U.S. law enforcement officials tell Declassified. The discovery last week of the training camp in the town of Higueras, just 70 miles south of the U.S. border in the state of Nuevo Len, provides fresh evidence for Mexican President Felipe Calderndue to meet with President Obama in Washington on Wednesday to press his case that the U.S. government is failing to crack down on a massive flow of illegal weapons into Mexico. A senior U.S. law enforcement official, asking not to be identified talking about sensitive matters, tells Declassified theres mounting evidence that the illegal trafficking of high-powered U.S. weapons into Mexico is continuing unimpeded and may actually be increasing, despite repeated statements by Obama administration officials (including Secretary of State Hillary Clinton during a March visit to Mexico City) that they are forcefully addressing the issue.

One yardstick, used internally by U.S. law enforcement officials but almost never publicly discussed, is what they call the time to crime measurement: the elapsed time between a guns purchase in the United States and its seizure by Mexican authorities in the course of a raid on drug traffickers. Mexican authorities routinely provide serial numbers on the weapons they seize to the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) so the guns can be traced back to their original source. The shorter the time to crime, the higher the likelihood that the gun was bought directly from a U.S. gun store by straw buyers or other drug-cartel operatives and then smuggled across the border into Mexico. As recently as 2006, the official says, the average time to crime for guns seized in Mexico was between six and seven years, suggesting that the weapons had gone through several buyers and sellers before ending up in the hands of Mexican drug traffickers.

But by this year the time-to-crime figure had dropped to less than three years, and in recent months ATF has been tracing weapons seized in Mexico with time-to-crime numbers that in some cases are as low as weeks or even days...

<snip>

Instead, the ATF official says, it may mean only that particular kinds of weapons are being purchased for Mexican traffickers directly from U.S. gun stores, as opposed to used weapons being bought on the secondary market at U.S. gun shows or from unregulated private sellers. In part because of legal restrictions that limit ATFs ability to track overall gun sales, and in part because of the multiple ways that weapons are legally bought and sold in the United States, the agency has no idea how many weapons are going to Mexico, says the official, also asking not to be identified talking about politically sensitive matters. The bottom line is there is no way for us to track those sales, said ATF spokesman Scot Thomasson.

http://www.newsweek.com/blogs/declassified/2010/05/17/i...
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Ever find a source for that '80 or 90'%?
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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Washington Times
Edited on Fri Aug-27-10 11:26 PM by safeinOhio
never spins. Doesn't Frank Lutz write for that rag?
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friendly_iconoclast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Do you regard Frank Lutz as an unreliable source?
If so, how long have you felt that way?
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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Had never heard of him before
a few days ago, as I don't watch Faux or read the Washington Times. How long have you been a supporter of him?
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oneshooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. "Recent article" dated May17,2010. n/t
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. "semi automatic assault rifles"
This article has a major Credibility Fail due to technical incompetence in the first sentence.

Also, what is wrong with having 10,000 rounds of ammo? That's not much at all for that many rifles, and only a modest stock for a semi-serious recreational shooter.

And furthar down: "80 AR-15 assault rifles", more Fail.

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Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 03:56 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Not to mention describing them as "military weapons"
There's not an army in the world that uses a semi-auto-only variant of a select-fire weapon. Not when they can manufacture or buy the real thing.
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friendly_iconoclast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I notice you left out the *other* weapons found during that raid. Didn't fit the agenda?
Edited on Fri Aug-27-10 11:55 PM by friendly_iconoclast
I suspect the bad guys boogied with the 'assault rifles' . Or it got 'lost' on the way back to base...

According to a U.S. law enforcement officer familiar with internal U.S. reporting on the raid, the items recovered by the Mexican military at the camp included 32 rifle grenades, four grenade launchers, 80 AR-15 assault rifles, 60 AK-47 assault rifles, one anti-tank launcher, 10,000 rounds of ammunition, 13,000 cartridge magazines, as well as body armor and two way radios. Although the rifle grenades and grenade launchers likely came from old military stocks in Guatemala or elsewhere in Central America, the official says, an initial inspection of the assault rifles markings suggests they all were purchased in the United States.




Really now, you need to start reading all of what is available at the links you post. Because we certainly will...
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. It's easier to blame US gun shows than admit where the cartels actually get their weapons.
Buying them from the Mexican military, which gets a nearly unlimited supply of M16s from the US, or simply importing AKs by the crate from China or Venezuela.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. "...no way to track...those sales?" They know how many are sold to the military...
in Mexico. If you want a hand grenade or a TRUE assault rifle (capable of firing automatically), you don't get 'em at gun shows.
You get them from the Mexican military, by theft, corruption or hi-jacking.

Familiarize yourself with the Ashley Gang of South Florida, which operated during the 'teens and twenties. When these early motor bandits needed suitable weapons (BAR full-auto) for their 40+ bank robberies, they didn't go to the hardware store. They knocked over military arsenals.
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Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 07:12 AM
Response to Original message
9. Absolutely
And with enough funding ,more leeway , and the complete backing of the American People , we'll round the corner in the war on drugs .... barry mccaffrey

A few more billion in appropriations for the legions of alphabet people....maybe some midnite basketball courts in Juarez ....and then it will all stop .




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