GUNS IN THE NEWS--December 29, 2003

[MrBenchley]

As CO Liberal sez:
Please try to adhere to the following voluntary guidelines, in order that we can have an orderly discussion of gun-related news topics:
1 - Feel free to add any CURRENT stories to this thread by replying to this message. In order to be considered current, stories should have been originally posted on the Internet within the previous 24 hours, or provide follow-up to a story that was previously posted on the J/PS board. On Mondays (since many people do not log in to DU over the weekend), stories can be posted from Saturday, Sunday, or Monday.
2 - Both pro-gun and anti-gun stories, editorials, and press releases are welcome in this thread, as long as they're current. Please do not post links to items from a few years back that support your position.
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4 - Do not change story titles. In other words, if the Oskosh Gazette's web site runs a story titled "Two Killed in Holdup", the title of your message should read "Two Killed in Holdup". Don't change it to "Gun Owner Kills Two People", or anything else that changes the meaning of the story.
5 - If it's not clear from the title where the story occurred, add the city, state, or country in parentheses after the title.
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8 - If you object to these guidelines, do everyone else a favor and go to another thread.

[MrBenchley]

1. Two dead, one wounded in apartment shooting (TX)

"Two people were killed and a child was wounded in an early morning shooting at a Denton apartment.
Vilma Rios, 19, died at the scene and Jose Nogues, 23, died later at Harris Methodist Hospital, said Jim Bryan, a Denton police officer. A 2-year-old girl was taken to Cook Children's Hospital in Fort Worth. Police declined to identify the child. Hospital officials declined to release the girl's condition.
Bryan said it was too early to speculate on the circumstances surrounding the shooting.
Bryan said police were called to Rios' apartment shortly after 1:15 a.m. to investigate a complaint of shots fired. They found the three victims at the scene. Bryan said police also found a pistol at the scene, but had not determined if it was the murder weapon. He said testing on the gun was expected Monday. "

http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/APStories/stories/D7VNPMBO0.html

[DarkPhenyx]

2. Darn...not nearly enough people...

...gunned down while opening their presents. Nobody blown up while eating thier roast beast. Not even one accidental shooting when the loaded gun wrapped up under the tree intentionally shot someone before it was unwrapped. Really hate when that happens.

[MrBenchley]

3. Shooting victim's mother stunned (TN)

"The mother of a 27-year-old Knox County woman believed to have been shot and killed by her boyfriend said Sunday she couldn't understand how their relationship had taken such a deadly turn.
Elizabeth "TaTa" Pilgrim was shot once in the head, apparently by her boyfriend, David Hurst, who then turned the gun on himself, according to her mother, Linda Millsaps.
"If you'd known the fellow (Hurst), you'd have never thought it in a million years," Millsaps said. "He was so laid back. He didn't get excited or anything. I felt like she was so safe with him."
The Knox County Sheriff's Office, which is investigating the case, has released no information about the shootings. "

http://www.knoxnews.com/kns/local_news/article/0,1406,KNS_347_2537007,00.html

[MrBenchley]

4. Shooting leaves 3 orphaned (AZ)

"PHELAN — James W. Andersen was shot to death in Hesperia last week, but losing a parent to bullets was nothing new to his three children.
"Their mom, Elisha, was shot to death in a home invasion in Arizona 51/2 years ago," said Melissa Andersen, the deceased man's sister, on Saturday. "Now they have no mom or dad."
The three — Amber, 16, Jamie, 12, and James R., 12, known as "Richie" — will live with their grandparents, Gloria and Paul Andersen, of Phelan.
Law enforcement remained reticent about the details of Andersen's shooting, allegedly at the hands of Daniel Marvin Noble, 31, of Hesperia, Wednesday evening.
Noble was booked into West Valley Detention Center on suspicion of being a felon in possession of a handgun and was released on $20,000 bail Thursday. Other charges could be added after further investigation, according to the Sheriff's Department."

http://www.vvdailypress.com/cgi-bin/newspro/viewnews.cgi?newsid1072627672,91201,

Thanks to the Republicans and the corrupt gun inudstry, he could have walked into any gun show in Arizona and bought a gun without undergoing a background check.

[MrBenchley]

5. Police Identify Victims of a Double Shooting (TN)

"Nothaven-Police identity the victims of a double shooting in Northaven. The Shelby County Sheriff's Department tells News Channel 3, 67 year old William D. Cowart died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. His daughter, 46 year old Virginia Hickson is in critical condition at the MED. The incident happened around 7p.m. Saturday night in the 5000 block of Belfast in North Memphis. "

http://www.wreg.com/Global/story.asp?S=1579218

[MrBenchley]

6. Family, friends, try to puzzle out shooting of woman (OR)

"PORTLAND — Friends and neighbors of the 57-year-old Portland woman who was shot in the back Friday night while sitting on her porch said there's no way to make sense of the incident.
Diane Knapp was smoking on her front porch Friday night with her back turned to the street when she was struck by gunfire and shot out of her wheelchair, her family and neighbors said.
Police found Knapp lying on the porch. She was hit three times in the back, underwent surgery at Legacy Emanuel Hospital & Health Center and was in good condition Saturday, relatives and hospital officials said."

http://www.gazettetimes.com/articles/2003/12/29/news/oregon/monore03.txt

[MrBenchley]

7. 3 Hospitalized, 7 Being Questioned After Overnight Shooting (FL)

"Police are investigating an overnight shooting in East Arlington that ended with three people in area hospitals and three different crime scenes.
Shots were fired about 3 a.m. near Abess Elementary School, hitting at least one person sitting in a pickup truck.
Two young men were taken to Shands-Jacksonville Medical Center, one of them a 19-year-old who was reported in critical condition. A third victim got himself to Memorial Hospital. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20031229/lo_wjxt/1935412

[MrBenchley]

8. Woman Dead, Man Shot After Argument (FL)

"Investigators said a man and woman were inside a car on Woodstock Avenue about 1 a.m. when the man began arguing with suspect with a gun.
The woman was then shot dead and the man was injured. He was able to walk to a nearby house for help. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ibsys/20031229/lo_wjxt/1935193&e=1

[MrBenchley]

9. Police: Two Teens Shot Following Argument (MI)

"Police are searching for a 15-year-old who reportedly shot two others following an argument Sunday afternoon.
The shooting occurred at a home on Montana Street on Detroit's east side, according to police. Police said the three teenagers got into an argument, and one shot the two others in the face and back, Local 4 reported. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20031229/lo_wdiv/1935351

[MrBenchley]

10. Boy Shot In Eye With Christmas Gift Pellet Gun (FL)

Just because someone (now ignored) asked so nicely....a gun owner learns early how to be a menace to himself and others....

"An 11-year-old boy is in the hospital today after being shot in the eye with a pellet gun.
Police say Allen Eugene (pictured, right) got into an argument with his 13-year-old neighbor, who then shot Eugene in the eye at close range with a pellet gun that his parents had bought him for Christmas.
The neighbor told police that he shot Eugene because he spat on him. The 13-year-old accused shooter has been arrested and charged with aggravated battery with a deadly weapon."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20031229/lo_wplg/1935302

Wonderfully, thanks to the Republicans and the corrupt gun industry, when the kid gets out of stir he can walk into any gun show in Florida and buy a REAL gun without undergoing any background check.

[demsrule4life]

11. What a pantload

In every state in the union juvenile records are sealed. I don't agree with it but the gun industry has nothing to do with it.

[MrBenchley]

12. Gee, dems, count you in then

as one of those thinking arming this kid is a GOOD idea...

[demsrule4life]

13. More deep thoughts (NFM)

[MrSandman]

22. Where did he sat "good thing"?

[the_acid_one]

15. Thats a laugh....

....oh my god....in 5 years this kid might be able to get a real gun! Oh no!

And i'm sure he wouldnt have matured even a little bit by then. In fact, I'll wager the first thing he'll do is buy a real gun and then finish the job he started 5 years before.

Bench, fact is, When he turns 18, his record will be wiped clean, and he'll be able to pass a background check without a problem. your comment on the end is nothing but hysterical alarmism.

You see, in the United States of America, when a minor, especially a 13 year old, does something that is not murder, we try to let them off the hook as best we can, rather then....oh I dunno, cutting off their hand or shooting out their eye in revenge.

When my grandfather got me my first BB gun he also gave me a hardcore lecture on proper gun safety. The result? 14 years later I've never commited a crime, or a serious breech of safety with any firearm.

Sounds to me like Mommy and Daddy bought this kid a BB gun, told him "be careful" and sent him on his merry way.

Seriously, they used to teach abstinance in school, it didnt work. Now they teach sex-ed.

What you're doing right now is the same thing. "Guns are wrong and bad and you shouldnt touch them."

The only thing that does is result in kids learning about guns from the movies. And we all know how much proper firearms safety is in the movies....

Seriously....guns are here, and they're here to stay, you cant un-invent them. All the "abstinance" additude does is make them seem more mysterious, and thus more desireable.

When my dad never let me touch my shotgun when he wasn't around, then it was something that was cool and adult and powerful. I never did touch it for fear of the consequences. But I sure as hell wanted to.

When I got older and my dad finally relented and said "It's yours, you can use it whenever you want to". It was fun for about a day, and then it turned into just another object. Why? Because I had been there, done that.

Firearms Education, with an emphasis on "dont touch" is infinately better then "They're bad...dont touch".

[MrBenchley]

16. So that's two for "let the kid have a real gun...."

"Seriously, they used to teach abstinance in school"
What planet do YOU live on? Most of the same right wing humholes spouting the gun rights horseshit are also mandating "abstinence only" in schools...with the result that we have third-world-like levels of teen pregnancy and teen STDs.

[the_acid_one]

23. Uhr...

What planet do YOU live on? Most of the same right wing humholes spouting the gun rights horseshit are also mandating "abstinence only" in schools...with the result that we have third-world-like levels of teen pregnancy and teen STDs.

Uhr...thats what I just said. That teaching abstinance is ineffective..whether from sex or firearms. It doesnt educate, it's only "fear tactics". Get kids scared of guns, get kids scared of sex...but it doesnt work.

By the way, I want you to point to the part where I said "let the kid have a real gun".

I said his record will be wiped clean and by the time he is old enough to purchase one he probably will have matured. I didnt say get him a real gun.

Had a little to much to drinky tonight Bench? Restating what I alluded to and then telling me that I am wrong, and then saying I said something I certainly didnt.

You're slippin, B ;)

[MrBenchley]

25. Who are you trying to kid?

[the_acid_one]

28. Apparently myself....

..about expecting a real answer or any kind of productive discourse.

[MrBenchley]

14. Anderson teen faces charges in death of man at club (IN)

"Anderson -- An Anderson teen faces a murder charge for allegedly shooting a man to death during an exchange of gunfire outside an under-21 club, police said.
Crane D. Fletcher, 35, Indianapolis, died from multiple gunshot wounds to the torso in front of the club about 3 a.m. Saturday, said Michael Lee, a police spokesman.
Joshua E. Robinson, 16, who was shot three times in the exchange of gunfire, faces a murder charge in Fletcher's killing."

http://www.indystar.com/articles/7/106572-5997-009.html

[demsrule4life]

17. Death fuels armed police debate

Only the brits could have laws that give the criminals more power then the police.

"Mr Brennan said unarmed officers were "sitting ducks", in a country where gun crime had got "out of control".

I guess the gun free utopia just aint working.

http://newswww.bbc.net.uk/1/hi/england/3351039.stm

[MrBenchley]

18. Wow, Dems...

if only you'd read down to the last paragraphs...

"He told BBC News Online: "You don't put more guns on the street to get guns off the street."
Mr Leech added: "It is never nice to point the finger of blame at the police, particularly when one has died as a result."
"But we cannot ignore the reality of the situation, this officer could not have been shot had the suspect been handcuffed and searched - it's as simple and tragic as that."
He said that arming police in the US had done nothing to stop them being murdered and he suggested the use of non-fatal equipment like pepper spray and taser guns instead. "

[the_acid_one]

24. Callin BS on this statement.

He said that arming police in the US had done nothing to stop them being murdered


It has not completely stopped it. But it's certainly made them more effective. Criminals fear armed officers. What's the first thing they do when cops show up? They run the fuck away. They dont want to be shot, and I dont blame them. I'd rather be tazed or maced any day.

Besides, why dont you poll the cops and ask them if they're willing to give up their firearms...that'll go over REAL well.

[MrBenchley]

26. Too frigging funny...

"Criminals fear armed officers."
Mary Rosh said it was neurotics with hidden popguns that criminals feared.

[the_acid_one]

29. Criminals fear...

...anyone who has the means and the mind to stop them from commiting crimes with a chunk of lead. Doesnt matter if it's a civilian or a police officer. They dont want to get shot.

[MrSandman]

27. In the four years between 1/1/98 and 12/31/01

it "stopped" all but 241 murders of police officers.(violence Policy Center). I don't know the number of arrests in that period, but to me it sounds like a very low percentage.

I would hazard that more died from automobile accidents, even only alcohol-related acccidents occurring while on duty in the same period. No, I have no link on number of accidents, that is why I hazard.

[MrBenchley]

20. Update

"LEEDS, England (CP) - An American who was working in this part of northern England as a bouncer was named by police Monday as someone they want to question in their search for a gunman who killed one police officer and seriously injured another last week.
Det. Supt. Chris Gregg of West Yorkshire Police said Nathan Wayne Coleman, 37, who was born in the United States but has been living in England for the last four years, is "someone we need to speak to as a matter of urgency."
On Sunday, police said the man they were looking for claimed to be Canadian in an audiotape the two officers switched on as they spoke to the man in their car before he opened fire on them. At the time, police said the man spoke in a North American accent but they couldn't be certain whether he was American or Canadian. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/cpress/20031229/ca_pr_on_wo/britain_police_shooting_1

[MrBenchley]

19. Clayton boy, 16, dies after Brentwood shooting (CA)

RENTWOOD - A teenage boy who was found shot in an Allbrook Drive house Saturday has died, and police are seeking the public's help to find a man they believe may be connected to the shooting.
Contra Costa County coroner's officials identified the dead boy as Joel Hanson, 16, of Clayton. Police, responding to a report of a shooting shortly before 1 p.m. Saturday found Joel in a house in the 600 block of Allbrook Drive, suffering from a gunshot wound to his head. Joel was airlifted to John Muir Medical Center in Walnut Creek, where he died Sunday, authorities said."

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/cctimes/news/7589988.htm

[MrBenchley]

21. Teen Shot During Violence At Local Skating Rink (OH)

"An overnight skating party at a local roller rink turned violent, and several police departments are trying to figure out what happened.
The violence at the Fun Factory Skating Rink in Norwood included the shooting of a teenager, WLWT Eyewitness News 5 reported. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20031229/lo_wlwt/1936148