Women a 'driving force' in Ohio handgun sales

[TPaine7]

"Since the CCW permits, more women are getting their CCW permits than men," said David Holden, 43, owner of an East Canton gun shop and one of the show's sellers. "Women are the driving force in the gun sales."

Source: http://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/article/20100307/NE...

This is good. Women are more vulnerable than men and less testosterone fueled. I trust every sane person with a clean record to handle guns safely; but I trust women more than men. And from what I've heard from range instructors, women learn faster and shoot better than men, on average. Once again, less testosterone (which is probably the reason why one sex is more able to ask for directions).

I hope this trend continues.

[shadowrider]

1. My daughter carries a .380 for personal protection

But outshot her husband with his .44 mag Desert Eagle at the range last weekend.

[Glassunion]

3. As does my wife.

We are not fans of shooting it. It seems to bite your trigger finger on every pull. But she loves carrying it. It is quite concealable.

On a side note I would have to agree that she became quite skilled in shooting very quickly. Faster than I would have expected from anyone.

[Lurks Often]

17. Women tend to improve faster

It has been noticed that women generally progress faster at the beginning when learning how to shoot. The theory is that women don't allow their ego to become involved and have not been affected by the unrealistic handling of firearms after watching <insert favorite action hero here>

[shadowrider]

20. Does that mean

I should stop twirling my .40 with the safety off?

[Glassunion]

22. No kidding

I can't hit squat at the range...

My shooing style...

I don't get it, it works in the movies!?
For some reason the range officers get pissed...

[Dappleganger]

35. It's my BUG.

But when people are wearing layers I'll not carry anything less than a 9mm.

BTW, my ccw class was comprised of more than half women, which is great! The H2H class I'm taking this weekend is supposed to be 3/4 women, too (it's geared towards both sexes).

Our police department's policy has pretty much made it clear that they're there to collect evidence, and the with the sheriff's dept. cutting back even more personnel we are pretty much on our own when the BG's come.

[DissedByBush]

45. I know some marksmanship trainers

They've trained civilian, police, Army and even Special Forces.

They all say that on average it's easier to train a woman up to competency with a firearm.

Something about most of them not coming in with some half-cocked, testosterone-laden ideas of how to shoot a gun that need to get knocked out of their heads before proper training can begin.

[DissedByBush]

33. My wife doesn't like the .380 I got for her

Too wimpy.

She likes the .44 Special snub-nose revolver.

"Big boom" = more fun apparently.

Even if you can't hit much beyond 30 feet.

But then there's not a clear aiming shot of more than about 30 feet in our house anyway.

[oneshooter]

42. Loving Wife likes her Colt LW Commander, 45cal.

She believed the same as me. "If you have to make a hole in somebody, make it as big as possable!"

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[shadowrider]

51. I don't place my target any further

than 15 feet at the range.

[Xela]

60. LOL

Wife frowns upon her peep-squeak Beretta 85F (.380 ACP).

But loves her Colt Goverment 1991 Stainless Steel in .45 ACP.

Xela

[no limit]

2. I trust men much more than I do women

well not really, but think of the shit storm that would follow had you said that.

[TPaine7]

4. yeah, I know.

I didn't even think about it until after I posted.

(As a black man, I've seen both sides of this type of thing.)

[DissedByBush]

46. I trust men more too

For all but a few days out of the month.

Ducking for cover now...

[onehandle]

5. Republican fear mongering drive handgun sales in Ohio

More guns in homes with kids is an excellent trend!

Mental note. Buy more shares of gun company stocks.

And Medical Insurance stocks. Is there one that specializes in emergency rooms?

[TPaine7]

6. At least my OPs make actual points!

For the record, I don't favor unsecured guns around children. Perhaps you could invest in safe and lock-box company stock as well as in gun company stock?

[onehandle]

8. That's a marginal industry.

Guns and emergency rooms are where the big money is.

[shadowrider]

12. Can you give me a link

Showing how many people show up in an emergency room after being shot, on purpose or accidentally, by a legal ccw holder, who was NOT in the process of committing a crime?

I'll wait

[slackmaster]

7. What evidence do you have that gun sales are correlated with firearm-related injuries

None.

[TPaine7]

10. You are assuming a reality based paradigm. Big mistake. n/t

[onehandle]

19. More Beer = More UFO Sightings

I'm sorry... What was the question?

[slackmaster]

24. I'll take that as an acknowledgement that you are just blowing smoke

Thanks!

[Bold Lib]

27. No evidence at all I see. Ha Ha Ha

[cowman]

9. Ahhhh Yes

more thoughtful wisdom from Onehandle

[GreenStormCloud]

13. Gun injuries among children are trending down.

You would lose money on the medical side of that investment. However, gun company stocks for self-defense handguns should do well.

Since Winchester brought out a 5-ball 000 buckshot load in .410 bore, Bond Arms sales of it's .410/.45LC derringer-style pistols is doing very well. Taurus is doing well with their line of self-defense handguns.

Saiga should do well with their line of AK-47 based design in shotguns with detachable 30-round magazines.

[shadowrider]

16. Taurus is doing well with their line of self-defense handguns.

I bought a Millenium Pro PT140. Nice gun. I can put 200 rounds through it at the range and my trigger finger and hand don't feel a thing. .40 puts out a good boom though, and the kick is very noticeable.

[gorfle]

14. More guns in homes.

My family has had guns in its homes for over 100 years without incident.

[slackmaster]

26. Mine too - Since 1877 on my father's side, and they weren't even locked up when I was a kid

[benEzra]

52. Mine too.

One of my great-grandparents' wedding presents in 1900 was a set of his-and-hers pocket handguns, a matched pair of top-break revolvers in .32 and .22, intended for lawful concealed carry.

[armueller2001]

15. Gun sales have been increasing in the last decade

while accidental deaths have decreased.

More guns in homes with kids is indeed an excellent trend, because that kid's parents are more able to defend their children from violent attacks.

[friendly_iconoclast]

41. Because Ohioans are just *not* capable of deciding to buy guns all on their own?

I can't decide whether you are paranoid, patronizing or a little of both...

[friendly_iconoclast]

44. Why, just look how badly the GOP scared *this* woman:

Oops, I should have made that: "Look how badly this woman scared the GOP:






http://www.liberalswithguns.com/id2.html

...She was the most famous spokesperson for civil rights, at a time when the idea of equal rights for people of color was very politically incorrect. "We can't afford to have two kinds of citizens," she insisted. "We must have equal citizenship for anybody in our country."

And though she was a well-known talker, she also walked the walk. In 1958, at age 74, she made plans to go down to Tennessee to speak at a civil-rights workshop at the Highlander Folk School.

The Ku Klux Klan learned about her plans. The day before her trip, the elderly, gray-haired woman was contacted by the FBI. "We can't guarantee your safety," they told her. "The Klan's put a bounty on your head, a $25,000 bounty on your head. We can't protect you. You can't go." But the little old lady answered, "I didn't ask for your protection... I have a commitment. I'm going."

And she did. She flew down to the Nashville airport, where she was joined by a friend, an elderly white woman aged 71. The pair got into the car, lay a loaded pistol on the front seat between them, and drove into the night. No Secret Service or police escort. Just the two little old ladies with a gun to keep them safe. They set out for their destination, a " tiny labor school<,> to conduct a workshop on how to break the law, how to conduct non-violent civil disobedience." They drove through the heart of Klan territory to teach people how to fight for freedom...

History FAIL to you...

[onehandle]

48. Eleanor Roosevelt had a gun in 1958 because of fearmonger GOPers fifty years later?

She was amazing!

Wait... Are you saying that women in Ohio are buying guns because of the Klan? Is the FBI telling them to?

Wait... What are you saying?

[friendly_iconoclast]

50. You keep repeating the "GOP fearmongers" meme. Does that mean it's true, or...

...just that you believe that is so? Repitition isn't proof of veracity.

If the stoutest of Democratic women could own and shoot guns, any American woman not otherwise disqualified
should likewise feel free to do so. Apparently, some of the ones from Ohio are doing just that.

Why does this put your nose out of joint?

[SteveM]

55. Eleanor's experience with guns appears far deeper than a CCW...

I notice that the CCW license was issued in 1957; yet, the automobiles and clothing styles in the other photos suggest she is practicing in the 1930s. It seems she had an interest in firearms well before the Klan started passing gas about her, and was competent to handle handguns in the pre-Weaver stance days.

[SteveM]

53. Sounds like that "fearmongering" is closer to home. nt

[cabluedem]

61. women are more likely to have the gun used against them. It a false sense of security.

[TPaine7]

62. So those who are more likely to have guns used against them should take the precaution

of disarming themselves?!!

And being armed to give oneself a fighting chance, because one is more likely than most of the population to be shot gives one a false sense of security? And this is so on spite of definitive scientific data showing that those who defend themselves are half as likely to be injured or robbed than those who do not resist?

Is that really your position?

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[oneshooter]

65. And what about those men, and especially women

that do know how to shoot? Those that are proficient in the use of firearms, those that shoot and practice on a regular basis?

"even you gun nuts tell each other to shoot to kill" Maybe that is what you want to hear. The LAW says to shoot till the threat is gone. In other words, once the threat is no more than you can not continue shooting. This may be a single shot or multiple shots, it may be that no shots need be fired! Many times the mere showing of a firearm, and the willingness to use it, is enough. Goblins do not want to be shot any more than anyone else.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[TPaine7]

67. People who *cannot* shoot should not carry, even though it is legal to bear arms throughout the USA

That's something we agree on.

Of course, unconstitutional laws are themselves illegal. I am speaking tactically, not legally.

[cowman]

68. Hey calbluedem

your side has lost the gun control battle, live with it and keep your enlightened views of guns in ca. A few years ago, here in my little town in NV we had some kalifornians move here and try to change our gun carry laws, needless to say they were laughed out of town, I guess we were not enlightened enough for those progressive kalifornians. Keep your gun laws in KA and leave the rest of us alone

[cabluedem]

75. To be effective gun laws have to cross state lines. The AW ban will be back, I can promise you that.

[friendly_iconoclast]

69. Does your B-I-L arrest the rape victims for carrying guns illegally?

Or does he practice selective enforcement?

And how is it they *have* guns, anyway? I thought the gun laws in California prevented that...

[cabluedem]

74. I'll ask him. I assume if they have a permit its OK, If not I guess they get arrested for possession

[friendly_iconoclast]

70. Why haven't you gotten the details from your B-I-L and dimed these women out to the Feds?

You thought it was a good idea when your boss did it, so why don't you? For that matter, why doesn't he do the same?
Sauce for the goose, etc.:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

cabluedem (1000+ posts) Sun Mar-07-10 03:36 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. my boss called the cops on a customer who had an assault rifle.....
Ten years in prison for not obeying the laws. Too bad people don't learn.

[Merchant Marine]

72. That sounds like a load of "weak little woman" sexist bigotry

[Euromutt]

64. "More likely" than what?

You can't just say "X is more likely" and leave everyone to guess what Y is.

[Euromutt]

71. Well, given the lack of response, I think can answer the question myself

The Brady Campaign talking point is that a woman is statistically more likely to be killed with a firearm than she is to use a firearm to kill an assailant. Note: a firearm, i.e. any firearm; ergo, the statistics says nothing about the likelihood of her becoming the victim of an assaultive shooting a gun that she herself possesses.

Of course, a woman who does not possess a firearm herself is also statistically more likely to be killed with a firearm than she is to use a firearm to kill an assailant. In fact, the disparity is almost certainly greater, since a woman who does not possess a firearm is equally likely to be fatally shot, while being significantly less likely to shoot an assailant herself.

So ultimately, the statistic does not carry more meaning than what is obvious from the start: that, given that the number of completed violent crimes is greater than zero, the chance of becoming the victim is, on average, greater than the chance of successfully defending oneself against such an attack.

[GreenStormCloud]

11. I don't ask for directions because I have a GPS unit.

Also, I have learned that if you ask for directions:

A. The average person is unable to give directions. (You are at a four way intersection, have pulled into a C-store to ask, and the person, without pointing says, "Go down the road...")

B. If they don't know, they feel compelled to guess.

Since this thread is supposed to be about women and guns, we got our CHLs because of my wife's situation at the time. A couple of months after we got her CHL, she saved her life with her gun.

[Katya Mullethov]

18. There are literally millions upon millions of folks

That absolutely cannot and will not utter the phrase " I don't know " .

[shadowrider]

21. I don't know about that

I won't stop to ask for directions because I'm never "lost", I'm "temporarily misplaced"..

[PavePusher]

32. "Geo-spatially location-orientation challanged"...

if you want to be properly P.C.

[paulsby]

39. i'm not lost, the "path wandered' nt

[oneshooter]

43. Like the Old Mountain Man said,

"I ain't NEVER been lost in these mountains!! Been a mite confused for a month or so, but not lost."

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[paulsby]

77. "the path wandered" nt

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

25. I do not stop directions. God gave men a built-in compass.

Well, at least he gave me something that seems to entice me to go one way or the other.
Unfortunately, it's illegal to publicly consult my compass in all 50 states.

[GreenStormCloud]

29. Before I leave for a new place:

A. Find it on Google Maps, Print Map
B. Find it on Google Earth - Street View. Do same for critical intersections.
C. Enter it on GPS and compare to Google Map.
D. If possible, have phone number of destination. If I have to ask for final directions, I will call the destination.

Now I am ready to go. It is almost like I have been there before.

[DissedByBush]

34. My grandma in law tried going across Europe with a GPS

Ended up out in the middle of nowhere in Austria on a miles-long dead-end farming road following that thing.

Shut the damn thing off, turned around, found a gas station, bought a map and made it to Southern Italy no problem the old fashioned way.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

23. I disagree. While women may have less testosterone...

this does NOT mean they are less emotional. Simply that experience less testosterone-related emotion.
Do men act irrationally aggressive sometimes? Yes. Do women act emotionally irrational sometimes? Yes.
My observations, for the most part, are that women tend to be very vulnerable emotionally.
At times, even to the point of being outright irrational in letting emotions guide their actions.
I would say women, overall, are more emotionally unstable than men are aggressively unstable.

When you actually have to use a gun in the real world... emotional control is paramount.

*Please note, my personal observations may not constitute a statistically significant sample.

[TPaine7]

28. Yeah, your point is well taken.

I wasn't saying that the average woman off the street was more trustworthy than the average man off the street; I meant that I would more readily trust a woman who was trained and practiced with guns than the average man so situated.

Trained and practiced women tend not to be overly emotional or fragile, in my experience.

Like yours, however, my personal observations may not constitute a statistically significant sample. I probably should have left my personal biases out of it and stuck to facts.

[Dappleganger]

36. That's why regular training is so important.

I joined a local IDPA club to help with that.

[paulsby]

40. women and men both have testosterone and estrogen

obviously in very different amounts and ratios

both hormones affect emotions.

as does oxytocin

[GreenStormCloud]

30. Women have better fine muscle coordination than men do.

They also have a more sensative sense of touch. The only reason that women don't dominate the shooting sports is that they just don't want to.

[Glassunion]

31. Not to mention...

They drive better. I hate to admit it, but I've seen the facts. Women are better drivers.

But

I punch harder than my wife. I win!!!
Lots and lots of

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

57. I'm not sure I can buy into this.

If women have better fine muscle control, why don't they
excell at many sports moreso than males?
If so, what sports?

As far as shooting sports, to say that women are better than
men, on average, is not unprovable.
"That they just don;t want to [dominate]" isn't a
very valid argument. 
Looking at the statistical distribution of competition
shooters (male vs. female) would certainly show alot.
Because there are numerically many more men only means there
is a higher probability that the top shooter is male. 
However, is the mean distributin of female competition
shooters "better" than the mean of male competition
shooter?

Personally, when it comes to fine motor control & sensory
reaction It's probably a wash between men & women. 
The only real difference being the speed & strength that
men have - after all, their bodies ARE different. 

[Euromutt]

37. Every female I've taken shooting did very well

I've taken my wife, my niece and a friend from Europe shooting, and they all made very good groups in short order. Moreover, in my (admittedly limited) experience, women grasp the practical aspects of firearm safety more quickly; e.g. when visually checking someone on the side of the firearm, they understand to move their head around while keeping the muzzle downrange.

I don't know whether it's testosterone so much as cultural conditioning; boys pick up a certain amount of ideas about firearms from movies, TV, video games, books et al., and discuss it with other boys, and there's this certain peer group expectation that you have to already know about guns even if you've never actually handled to fired one. Girls, and women, by contrast, don't suffer from this expectation; they have no preconceived notions or machismo to overcome. That's my surmise, at least.

[paulsby]

38. otoh, it's the reason why they can't fold a map

testosterone and spatial perception being so closely linked

[Euromutt]

47. That sounds like the joke about why women suck at parallel parking

(Holds up thumb and forefinger a short way apart)
Because they've always been told this much is 12 inches.

[paulsby]

49. lol. i like that nt

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

58. I believe women DO read maps better than men though.

Only a man could conflate the real world difference between 1 inch and 1 mile.

[Statistical]

54. It isn't just testosterone or egos.

Stereotyping a little bit...

Men and women are wired differently.

Men tend to be goal oriented. Women tend to be process oriented.

This means in something like firearms men want to get to the point of shooting out bullseyes and as a result often pick up a lot of bad habits, and/or miss crucial pieces on information. Women tend to follow the process better especially when taught by a knowledgeable instructor.

The Army has methods to break this "wiring" and get as close to a clean slate as possible but they aren't really applicable for civilian training.

[paulsby]

78. i saw this same syndrome

over and over again as a personal trainer.

same thing. men wanted to lift BIG WEIGHTS (if that bar aint bendin, yer just pretendin')

it makes them more difficult to train in proper form and load selection

[RamboLiberal]

56. Good - I applaud this

Knowing how to use a firearm IMHO greatly enhances our chance of successfully defending ourselves and giving us more peace of mind in our daily lives.

[YllwFvr]

59. Good for them!!!

Ive taken three women to the gun range to teach them how to shoot and safely handle a firearm. One got scared and took no interest, the other two were fish to water. Both of them outshot me by the end of the day and absolutely loved it.

Great post TPaine!

[shadowrider]

66. I went to gun training

with a man and wife. She was so nervous, and shaking to badly on the range the instructor had her quit. He was scared she'd drop it, have the "kick" knock it out of her hand etc.

[PavePusher]

73. For the record...

I've seen this happen to men, too. Men in the military, no less.

[jazzhound]

76. When I first started going to the range

I was surprised at the % of women I saw in the lanes. After I had been shooting for a while, I was in a lane next to a Dad, Mom & 16 yr. oldish daughter with their instructor. Dad was pretty shaky, Mom was a mess........but the young lady was fearless and getting all of her shots in the black at 25 yards. Inspirational! She was shooting almost as well as me on her first trip to the range.

I always get a great feeling when I see women at the range. Here are women who haven't fallen for the lie that they're less capable then men. Heartbreaking to wonder how many women have died needlessly because they were led to the false belief that they were incapable of handling a firearm.