Yesterday I had an interesting converation with a rabid anti-gunner

[shadowrider]

I went to eat at Waffle House (Hey, everyone needs an oil change every now and then), and ordered my usual, two eggs over medium, sausage, grits, toast, tomato juice and coffee. (I was wearing a jacket).

While sitting at the counter, an attractive lady sat next to me (mid/late 40's - early 50's) and we struck up a conversation. She was perusing the paper and came across an article regarding gun control. Since I didn't see the article, I have no idea which one she was reading but she started railing about how only nuts carry guns, how she wouldn't have anything to do with anyone that carried, how people with guns will use them at the drop of a hat and how all guns should be turned in.

Naturally my sense of humor kicked in and I started asking her questions, such as, "If, right now, a bad guy came into the restaurant (It's Waffle House remember so "restaurant" is a loose interpretation), and started waving a gun and began stealing from everyone, what would she do?" Her reply was to give the guy what he wanted, don't resist and call the police when he left. Well I said, what if he started shooting regardless? Her reply, hope she didn't die and call the police when he left.

After that the subject was changed. It was very pleasant with a good deal of laughing. At the conclusion, she wanted my number (I'm semi-taken and didn't comply) but I did tell her how much I appreciated the conversation and offered to pay for her meal, which I did.

She left and I went out to the truck, took the holstered .40 off my hip and put it into the center console of the truck. I then chuckled all the way home. (I have a valid CCW).

[old mark]

1. Rec. I love the "logic" that puts your life in the hands of an armed robber.

Certainly, someone I would trust to do the right thing...

mark

[proteus_lives]

18. Weird isn't it?

[old mark]

19. Coming from supposedly intelligent people - it's as twisted a "logic"

as we regularly see in the RWers.

mark

[Callisto32]

2. These conversations seem to stick with people.

I once had a similar discussion with a young woman. She told me not only that it was morally superior to be raped than to use a firearm to protect herself from a violent rapist, but also that she would rather be raped than to do so. When I modified the question to be her hypothetical child that was being so attacked, she did not change her response. If someone would rather be harmed than fight back, that is that person's decision to make, but to suggest that you would allow another to be attacked and raped if you had the means to stop it is, to me, inexcusable.

[the other one]

3. Mass carnage from the crossfire

As everyone starts shooting at once. That's how I want to die.

Unrec

[GreenStormCloud]

4. IOW, You are wishing for a VERY long life.

"Mass carnage from the crossfire" hasn't happened yet in any of the 40 states that have shall-issue. Looks like you will have a looooong wait for that scene.

[Old Codger]

5. Mass safety

When the bad guys get the message enough times REC

[SteveM]

9. Do you have any examples of "mass carnage from crossfire?"

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gorfle]

16. Here is an example

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTAADW9wNvk

In the name of civility, please refrain from terms like "gun nuts", and calling pro-RKBA folks "idiots". Thanks.

[Hoopla Phil]

20. Damn. I think she had been on the phone for 5 minutes with 911 when the vid

ended. How long did it actually take for the cops to get there?!

[shadowrider]

21. When seconds count, the cops are minutes away

[PavePusher]

14. And this happens how often?

Oh yeah... NEVER.

Care to play again?

[proteus_lives]

17. No, you want to die cowering under a table.

Rec.

[beevul]

41. Another page...

Another page from the same book of speculation that was read from every single time a state passed shall issue CCW.


Fiction, every time.

REC.

[chrisa]

51. Not enough people carry guns in the real world for that to be possible.

The real danger is the police hitting the wrong target.

Guns are of course a very last resort. Most often the incident is over, I would imagine, before the police actually get there. It's better to let someone who isn't absolutely nuts, or trying to kill others just leave with what they have (like in a robbery, for example). Problem is, it's hard to tell if a criminal is going to shoot, or just wants to steal. There's really no right answer.

[msongs]

6. most people murdered by rabid pro gunners are killed by people they know and/or love nt

[benEzra]

8. Not very many of those.

The majority of murders are committed by people who are already legally barred from so much as touching a gun due to prior criminal records, and most of the remainder aren't by those who are particularly pro-gun. But it sounds good, right?

http://crimelab.uchicago.edu/gun_violence/report.shtml

Research in criminology consistently finds that 6 percent of each birth cohort accounts for up to half of all crime and two-thirds of all violent crime (see, for example, Tracy, Wolfgang, and Figlio, 1990). People who have been arrested at least three times have more than a two-thirds chance of being arrested again. The disproportionate concentration of crime and violence among a relatively small subgroup suggests that changing the behavior of even a small share of the highest-risk youth could generate a notable drop in the overall volume of gun violence.

Gang involvement appears to be one characteristic of this highly criminally involved subset of all youth, particularly in Chicago. What should count as a “gang” remains the topic of ongoing debate among criminologists and sociologists. But when the United States Department of Justice surveyed arrestees in different cities in 1996–97, 20 percent of Chicago arrestees said they were currently in a gang and 45 percent said they had been in a gang at some point. This is a far higher rate than in the median city in the sample, which had 3 percent of arrestees report current gang involvement and 15 percent report lifetime involvement. Los Angeles was the only city that came close to Chicago’s level of reported gang activity.<6>

In recent years, the Chicago Police Department (CPD) has reported that roughly 45 percent of homicides in Chicago are related to gang altercations or narcotics. The CPD also reports that 90 percent of all homicide offenders and nearly three-quarters of homicide victims have prior arrest records, which suggests that involvement with gangs, drugs, guns, or other illegal activities is associated with an increased risk of violence and victimization as well as offending.<7>

Demonizing the lawful and nonviolent instead of addressing the unlawful and violent is a bit disingenuous, IMO. CHL holders have a lower violent crime rate than even police officers, and far lower than the general population, probably due primarily to self-selection for rule compliance.

[Katya Mullethov]

11. You are tilting at windmills

Well we are actually , but I wont stop either .

[SteveM]

10. You sure those thugs are pro-gun for the rest of us? How about:

"Gun Control? It's the best thing you can do for crooks and gangsters. I want you to have nothing. If I'm a bad guy, I'm always gonna have a gun. Safety locks? You pull the trigger with a lock on, and I'll pull the trigger. We'll see who wins." -- Sammy "The Bull" Gravano,VANITY FAIR 9/99 page 165

[DissedByBush]

23. Is this that old New England Journal of Medicine study?

That study had a very wide definition of people you know.

It included opposing gang members, and yourself in the case of suicide (gun ownership has never been correlated with suicide rates).

In addition from the study "case households more commonly contained an illicit-drug user, a person with prior arrests."

Their study was mostly drug users and criminals! 71% of the victims had high rates of criminal activity. Almost everyone was killed by someone who didn't live with them.

The study has no applicability for the average law-abiding family.

Furthermore, in the end of the study, there were many risk factors that ranked much higher than handguns for getting killed.

Drinking, drugs, renting and living alone were far more likely to get you killed.

[gorfle]

7. It would have been better.

It would have been better if you had walked her out of the restaurant and let her SEE you put your gun into your truck.

Unbuckle and say, "Have a nice day, ma'am!"

:)

[shadowrider]

13. Actually, I thought about that

But given her stance on the subject, I didn't want to take a chance on her going viral in the parking lot and attracting undo attention.

[TPaine7]

12. You could have shown her your CCW permit, just before parting. n/t

[randr]

22. As long as we are discussing hypothetical situations

How do you propose we deal with the random wacko wife beater with umpteen restraining orders against him who goes to his job or family and starts shooting with a gun he picked up at a weekend traveling gun show or the back of some bubba's pickup?

[rusty_rebar]

24. You can't prevent a wacko.

There are lots of things you cant prevent.

[Pavulon]

27. Nope but I can deliver a controlled pair in a hurry.

and prevent a wacko from shooting me without a bit more effort on his part.

[oneshooter]

25. What would you propose to prevent that from happening? n/t

[PavePusher]

26. Unless your precognition is far better than mine...

There ain't squat you can do except implement a police state where everyone is under strict control at all times. And since that doesn't even work in the microcosms of prisons, I think all you're left with is squat.

[Katya Mullethov]

28. After umpteen restraining orders ?

That is the unspoken code for "you deal with it " .

[spin]

29. I favor requiring all private sales to have a NICS background check...

that would include all firearm sales at gun shows or between friends.

Private sales could be conducted without the make, model or serial number of the firearms recorded. All that would be required is that the seller has to have the check run by a licensed dealer. The fee should be reasonable, $20 at the most.

It's difficult to solve the problem of gun theft from the back Bubba's pickup. Bubba should not leave his firearm in his pickup or if he does there are means to secure it to prevent theft.

[DissedByBush]

30. If we could ensure such records were never held permanently

But as you know there are constant attempts to keep the data retained indefinitely. Eventually one of these attempts will succeed.

[spin]

50. A good point ...

the camels nose under the tent.

[K8-EEE]

31. Why weren't you honest with her that you had the gun?

I sat by some guy once at The Frolic Room in H'wood and he kept sort of bumping into me on purpose type of thing in a flirty type wa and as soon as I noticed he had a gun under his jacket(and DRINKING! RUM!!) I was soooo out of there.

Honestly there is nothing I can do about gun lovers their damned guns, to me it's a downside of US culture, but if she was honest with you about being creeped out by guns you should have at least told her you had one, she might have preferred to sit somewhere else or leave or whatever.

I've been in lots of restaurants, LOTS LOTS LOTS and in some seedy areas too and never once had occasion to use a gun, it's just the most paranoid mindset imaginable, people can't even go out to eat without this weapon. Sad.

[friendly_iconoclast]

32. Why was he supposed to cater to someone elses' paranoia?

And it's demonstrably paranoia as he kept his cool while listening to her trash a group he belongs to.
He was told that he "would use it at the drop of a hat", remember?

For that matter, how do YOU know people aren't carrying guns in the restaurants you eat at?
If they conceal them (legally or not), you'd never know...

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Euromutt]

34. Sounds like you're setting up a no-win situation

If, as a concealed carrier, you inform someone you're carrying and they get an attack of the vapors (and possibly call the cops), you're at fault because such a statement could be interpreted as a threat.

And if you don't tell them you're carrying, you're also at fault for not pandering to their sensibilities.

No matter what you do, someone's going to bitch about it.

[Katya Mullethov]

35. And it will never stop

Glassware in all pubs will be plastic , and the newer safer hot dogs will come in a tube .
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=safer+hot+dog++&aq=f&aqi=&oq=

[cowman]

36. I couldn't give

two shits about her feelings towards guns. It's not my concern if she hates guns or not and I certainly wouldn't tell her I was carrying, but I'll bet everthing I own that if a gunman entered and started shooting she would be damn glad when I pulled mine and put this maniac killer down

[K8-EEE]

37. Of course you couldn't!

Oh, understood! That doesn't surprise me at all, I just wanted to say that I didn't think it was really that adorable of a story, that's all.

[PavePusher]

39. And yet...

a woman who admitted to being afraid of those dangerous gun owners, sat beside one, had a conversation, insulted his hobby/enthusiasm/precaution, spouted the most inane drivel..... and was not molested, threatened, provoked, injured, or frightened.

Wow, those gun carriers, touchy, randomly violent bunch they are....

Or something.

[K8-EEE]

42. Wow you sure faked her out, wooohooo!

So what? Yes, not every aspect of a stranger is apparent from a casual conversation. Obviously. Nobody would ever go on a bad date if this were not the case. Especially those who are not being honest in the conversation, yes, people will misrepresent themselves. So what? The fact that you're breaking our arm patting yourself on the back over this little conversation with a stranger is pretty bizarre if you ask me.

[PavePusher]

47. And you completely miss the point..

But I expected no less of you.

Good day to you.


Edit: see post #48. Good job C-32!

[cowman]

40. Then why

did you make it a point to say that he should have told her that he was carrying so she could make up her mind on whether to stay or move away?

[PavePusher]

38. It sounds like you are the one with paranoia issues... n/t

[TPaine7]

43. He probably didn't post to impress you. n/t

[shadowrider]

45. Correct

I posted because I had a conversation with an anti-gunner who had no idea she was sitting next to a CCW. Nothing more, nothing less.

And for an earlier poster (not you), I was not hit on. Merely asked for my number because of the pleasant conversation AFTER her anti-gun rant. She appreciated that, but I sense her opinion would have changed dramatically had I told her I was carrying. (The entire purpose of CCW is people DON'T know).

[Callisto32]

48. Thank you for using pejorative terms. And you missed the point.

Nothing in the OP suggested "hitting on him." The point is that she was happily bashing a group she thinks is unstable and untrustworthy, to a member of that group, who demonstrated that her preconceived notions are incorrect.

[shadowrider]

49. That is exactly the point I was trying to make

[shadowrider]

46. If someone is drinking

AND carrying, I don't blame you for getting out of there. Alcohol and guns NEVER mix, ever.

[paulsby]

52. i've never used my fire insurance

i must be paranoid to carry it.

heck, i've never used my car insurance for ANYTHING. i've never had a claim in my entire life.

guess i don't need it

[Biker13]

44. Rec