Is ther hope yet for the UK

[oneshooter]

David Cameron: burglars leave human rights at the door
David Cameron has stoked the row over the prosecution of ‘have a go heroes’ by saying that burglars leave their human rights at the door when they break into a property.

The Conservative leader reiterated the Tory position on the prosecution of householders who attack intruders by saying that only those who use “grossly disproportionate force” should face the courts.
But he went further than that, by appearing to suggest that violence of any level against a burglar would be justified, and that that intruders “leave their human rights outside”.

“The moment a burglar steps over your threshold and invades your property with all the threat that gives to you, your family and your livelihood, I think they leave their human rights outside,” he said.
“The reason for changing the law is people I think do find it rather unclear what the current framework of reasonable force actually means.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/david-cameron/7104132/David-Cameron-burglars-leave-human-rights-at-the-door.html

No comment, not my country.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[MisterBill45]

1. hope for the UK? NO!

I have very sadly given up completely on the UK. I believe the country will be a near-totalitarian state within my lifetime. Something that saddens me deeply as I've visited and worked in the UK for 35 years and have dozens of friends there. These days I don't even want to visit anymore.

My wife and I have seriously thought about emigrating to another country over the years. I've lived in Europe and enjoyed it, we visit Canada at least once a year. Hell I used to spend summers in Mexico with my uncle who lived there before he died. I've lived in other countries and a lot of them are great places in their own way.

But after a lot of thought, We've decided to stay here no matter what. For all it's faults, the U.S. has the one thing I can't do without. -A constitution that's not subject to the whims of a legislative body. No other modern western country has the protections we have here, however poorly they may work at times.

The UK has criminalized the majority of its population at this point with some bizarre regulation or another and has actively worked to make its people more sheep-like and accepting of over-reaching government intrusion than would have been thought remotely plausible 50 years ago. Hate speech? Look at who's getting prosecuted and why. Self-defense? Protect yourself from assault and go to jail. Hell, the case of the guy who literally found a shotgun in a trash-bin and turned it over to the cops at the police station will be doing ten YEARS in jail. That's not even mentioning the 24/7 surveillance of EVERYONE.

All common sense, all respect for the individual, all the basic rights of human beings seem to be up for grabs in that benighted country. It's not a state for the benefit of the people, it's a state for the benefit of the state. The people just need to be lulled into compliance with fear and the dole. Sad, sad, sad.

[Katya Mullethov]

3. Division is simple math

The much visited hoplophobia thread didnt manage to touch on it . But there is a basic and not so subtle division amongst the electrolyte . Those who believe in their heart of hearts that the state is the highest authority in society, the wellspring from which force may flow , and that the citizens are the servants .

And then you have the other group , those that believe the citizens are the highest authority and the state is their servant .

They dont get along so well .

[TheWraith]

2. I hope so, but self-defense is just one of a dozen problems there.

What they really need is wholesale reform and the introduction of something akin to the bill of rights--or at least amendments 1, 2, 4, and 5. Not to mention some laws protecting privacy from the constant invasions of it by their national security state.

[spin]

4. Many here feel that their form of government is superior to ours ...

I disagree.

They do have a better heathcare system.

We would too, if our politicians weren't bought and paid for by the "for profit" heathcare industry.

edited for spelling

[TheWraith]

5. I think there's a lot to be said for the parlimentary system.

And not just that it's more entertaining than Congress. But the UK lacks the strength of checks and balances that prevent inappropriate encroachment into things like privacy, personal property, self defense, etcetera. It's the distinction between good powerful government and bad powerful government: the NHS is an example of the positives, being able to provide safety and support for the citizens, but there needs to be a clearer line between providing social safety and the increasing national security state that the UK is becoming.

[AtheistCrusader]

6. The wording has unacceptable implications.

All human rights? Clearly not. Extrajudicial killings are not acceptable. However, it is possible to allow lethal force in self defense when justifiable. A dividing line the UK seems to have trouble recognizing.

If they left 'all human rights' outside, you could morally and justifiably enslave an intruder, for instance. Clearly that isn't the case, and not the intended connotation. Cameron needs to fix his use of language, or this will be ridiculed.

[Euromutt]

7. Well put

I was thinking that something along the lines of "the human rights of the residents should not be subordinate to those of the intruder(s)" might better convey the message.

[Euromutt]

8. The problem isn't the current law; it's how it's been interpreted

The law, at present, permits an aggressed-against person to use "reasonable force" to defend himself. The problem is that the police, public prosecution and the courts seem to have adopted the interpretation that anything that might cause even the slightest degree of injury to the assailant is "unreasonable."