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Austin PD - NO unrecorded private gun sales = Official Oppression

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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:00 PM
Original message
Austin PD - NO unrecorded private gun sales = Official Oppression
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 06:03 PM by Tejas
I've been following this thread at ar15.com about a gunshow held this weekend in Austin, TX.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=8&t=393152

Seems the Austin Chief of Police is wrecklessly overstepping his authority, mainly to the tune of Official Oppression (*ref below). Also, it appears to be a direct violation of the Gun Control Act of 1968. Thusly, the BATFE is prohibited by its own regs from engaging in any form of what's occuring. As word is spreading across the web, this could get very interesting.

------------------------------------------------------



VENDOR NOTICE-AUSTIN SHOW ONLY:
At the direction of the Austin Police Department and the
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms,
ONLY LICENSED FFL DEALERS
will be allowed to set up and sell firearms
at the N. Austin Show Location.



http://waronguns.blogspot.com/2010/01/messin-with-texas...

Correspondent Walter L appears to shed some light:

The Texas Gun Shows have been ordered by the Austin PD and BATF to allow no setups for gun sales from non-FFLs. All individual sales will have to go through licensed dealers.

Chasing some stuff down, it seems that HEB owns the building they use and the APD and BATF have gotten to themthreatening with the possibility of suit if there are sales on their property for non background checked transactions. Thus its the landlord not LE who is calling for the restrictions.

------------------------------------------------------



from the Texas State Rifle Association website http://www.tsra.com

"Austin Gun Shows Under Attack?

It has been reported to TSRA that the Austin Police Department in cooperation with at least one agent with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives is apparently trying to limit or eliminate gun shows in Austin. Here is a link to the Texas Gun Shows website setting forth a policy that allows only federal firearms licensees (FFL) to "set up and sell firearms." This policy was instituted in response to statements made by an Austin Police Department detective. It is also reported that individual attendees will not be able to sell firearms without having to go through an FFL.

This matter is being researched by TSRA and its attorneys at this time."

-----------------------------------------------------



* reference: Texas State Penal Code

39.03. OFFICIAL OPPRESSION. (a) A public servant
acting under color of his office or employment commits an offense if
he:
(1) intentionally subjects another to mistreatment or
to arrest, detention, search, seizure, dispossession, assessment,
or lien that he knows is unlawful;
(2) intentionally denies or impedes another in the
exercise or enjoyment of any right, privilege, power, or immunity,
knowing his conduct is unlawful
; or
(3) intentionally subjects another to sexual
harassment.

-----------------------------------------------------






SO, we have an event that prohibits private sales between private individuals. What's next, private sales of automobiles must go through your local Chevy dealer?


Anyone looking to hire a "former" police chief?

How about a "former" mayor?


;)






edit - title
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duphase Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. I figured that's where you were going, and you're ON de Monet


Garage sales and flea market sales may also be restricted. Oh, and that baggie for the weekend? Does your guy have a license?
If not, you'll have to get in your car and drive over to Bailliol Brothers Pharmacy ("Prescriptions Without a Prescription - just
see our boy in the back...and tell him Necessity sent you").
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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Classifieds in the
newspapers and weekly freebies at the store too.
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duphase Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Let's go to Luckenbach, Texas. Ain't nobody THERE feelin' no pain.

Might run into Billie "I'd like to be in Charlie's shoes" Walker or even Kenneth Threadgill and the Velvet Cowpasture. Hey, you can't
never tell.
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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. Only retail guns and beanie babies.
Edited on Sun Jan-17-10 06:17 PM by Tejas





This will not buff out.






edit - pic fixed
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duphase Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. What in tarnation is going on? nt
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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I imagine the Texas AG will have a field day on Monday.
Actually, if the Travis County Sheriff were to have been on hand at the show....and a sale had taken place between private individuals without FFL involvement that resulted in the arrest of said individuals by Austin PD........things would have gotten very interesting.

Travis County Sheriff would either have to intervene or otherwise be seen as supporting the act of Official Oppression by the Austin PD.

This sound correct?

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virginia mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. yea, what would be the charge officer???
What CRIME, has been commited??

Would be the exact qestions I would be asking...
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oneshooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. "OFFICIAL OPPRESSION" under color of law n/t
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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
7. some kind of terrorist threat or
national security deal. stay tuned.
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OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
9. the newspaper headlines should read: "Austin PD and BATFE
Bring the Rope to Their Own Execution"

Seriously... LOL. They are DIRECTLY stepping on the letter of the law.
The City of Austin must have some money to burn seeing as they are so willing to throw it away on in lawsuits.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
11. Some more info re: OP....




http://discussions.texasbowhunter.com/forums/showthread...

This exchange occurred on the Texas Bow Hunter web site:



"Tuffbroadhead has it right.

"I was at the Austin show on Saturday, and talked to several people, including some associated with the show promoters. The story I got...

"The FFL rule at the Austin show was a condition of the lease on the building from the venue owners (HEB Grocery). There is no State/local law mandating FFL only firearm sales. The property owners were within their rights to institute the FFL requirement

"Supposedly...HEB met with APD and the ATF and they "urged" HEB to institute the FFL rule, based on their outstanding investigations from prior shows of "questionable gun sales". The LEO's supposedly hinted at potential liability issues for HEB's continued running of this venue if they didn't institute the FFL rule. The people we talked to felt it was an over zealous reaction from the local LEO agencies to pressure the venue owners.

"I don't think this is an indication of a larger action. I think it's just some local officials getting too big for their britches!

"If the shows in Austin continue the way this one was run, the only people who will attend it are uninformed newbies.
--
Tom"


Use of the expression "potential liability issues" indicates a strong-arm tactic used against the landlord, and not the enforcement of statute. One question: who would be suing? Another question: Where did this APD move originate?

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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
12. And some more, here...




http://waronguns.blogspot.com/2010/01/messin-with-texas...


There is the usual Moscow-on-the-Colorado stuff, "socialism," etc., but also some re-posted letters to APD, asking what authority it has in this matter.

Chief Acevedo is under a ton of pressure with cops getting arrested on DWI and "gas huffing" charges, and officers under investigation for shootings. He is also from California, and may have his eye on the City of San Francisco's attempts to ban gun shows (taken to the Supremes of Cali and promptly thrown out). Maybe this is Acevedo's way of distracting from the internal problems within APD, or maybe it is standard LEO gun politics which they think they can get away with in Austin because it is Austin. I wouldn't rule out a national presence by gun-controllers, trying to make Austin a "test case" (even though there appears to be little law involved) or some kind of end-around to close down gun shows. There is also some history (back to the mid-70s) of Austin city council persons toying with gun-control.
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taurus145 Donating Member (453 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 02:34 AM
Response to Original message
13. I think when this all comes out in the wash
We'll see that Chief Art Acevedo is wearing what the emperor wore.
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taurus145 Donating Member (453 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 02:39 AM
Response to Original message
14. TSRA is on it.
It has been reported to TSRA that the Austin Police Department in cooperation with at least one agent with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives is apparently trying to limit or eliminate gun shows in Austin. Here is a link to the Texas Gun Shows website setting forth a policy that allows only federal firearms licensees (FFL) to "set up and sell firearms." This policy was instituted in response to statements made by an Austin Police Department detective. It is also reported that individual attendees will not be able to sell firearms without having to go through an FFL.

This matter is being researched by TSRA and its attorneys at this time.


https://www.tsra.com/
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. I posted this controversy on the Austin American-Statesman's "news tip" page.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
16. That ain't right.

Good luck Texans.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
17. One more time, with feeling...
I have provided this thread link to the Austin Chronicle, a weekly alternative with about 90,000 circulation. They are more open to the issues of guns and gun-control than MSM.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
18. Notified News 8 Austin of this thread (nt)
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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Bet you Chief Acevado misses Kalifornia real bad now!
as they say - buh bye!
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dashrif Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
19. I seen that
today and found a copy of the hand out, are they mad for lawsuits in Austin?

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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-19-10 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
21. FOI request filed
from ;


http://waronguns.blogspot.com/2010/01/more-about-texas-...



---------------------------------------------------

I just sent an Open Records Request to APD:

Dear Sir,

This is a request under the Open Records Act, Chapter 552 of the Texas Government Code of Texas. Please also provide any and all documents, notes correspondence, summaries, worksheets, memoranda, and/or assignment sheets e-mails and video or audio recordings reviewed, produced, generated, used, and/or compiled regarding the Austin Police Departments collaboration with the Bureau of Arms Tobacco and Alcohol in demanding, requesting, discussing and/or advising the Texas Gun Show and HEB to bar or prevent or end private gun sales except via Federally Licensed Dealers, during the gun show scheduled for January 16 and 17, 2010 and held at the Crockett Center in Austin, Texas. Please also provide any video or audio recordings of the meetings held between APD, ATF and/or HEB and the operator of the Texas Gun Show.

It is our expectation that these items will be provided within the time-frame mandated by the above-referenced Texas statute. Please let me know the cost of copying.

Jerri Lynn Ward, J.D.

---------------------------------------------------







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RealityInSeattle Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
22. Every state should adopt this - Awesome
Very little comes out of texas I agree with, but chalk one up in the plus column for once.

How every gun show should work.

"well regulated".
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OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. You do realize people can just sell guns to each other (unchecked) OUTSIDE of the show?
Edited on Wed Jan-20-10 06:29 PM by OneTenthofOnePercent
You don't have to be at a gunshow to buy guns (without a background check) from othre private citizens.
If I wanted to sell a trunkful of guns tonight, I could do it at the playground near my house if I wanted.
I once sold a .50 caliber in the parking lot of a Subway restaraunt - got the cash, he took the gun, and we left.

This gunshow policy has changed NOTHING to deter crime. Not one thing.
Simultaneously, it has directly stepped on the rights of the citizens and is contrary to the state laws.
I'm glad this is the kind of shit you approve of. :puke:
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. I do not think that phrase means...
what you think it means...



Gimmie another straight line...
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rd_kent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Your ignorance is stupefying, realityinseattle.
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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. THANK YOU!
Hmm, maybe there're "unintended consequences" of these driveby posts of yours and others. Not sure if it's intentional on your part, but it's funny how you do things. Get gun folks that have civil rights on their side riled up so that they'll fight even harder to keep those rights.

Are you an NRA plant?

Either way, it's working so again, thank you!
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east texas lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. Some just have to tickle the dragons tail...
And to their everlasting regret, sometimes the dragon awakens.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. When folks finish feeling good, you may wish to consider this unintended...
consequence: If the threat of "nuisance" charges and "liability issues" is enough to outlaw something which is not illegal -- gun shows -- then those wishing to trade in firearms on an individual basis will go underground; sort of like metastasizing "cancer," if you see gun ownership that way. With gun shows, APD had the ability to find those unqualified to own firearms by having officers both in and out of a gun show facility to screen license plate numbers, and compare them with records of convicted felons. Or they could find a likely "straw buyer" and tail that buyer to a car or location where crims & thugs reside. On occasion, they found some crims & thugs using these methods.

But without gun shows, where can they go to "conveniently" catch the crims? Austin is a pretty big town.

Where do you think they'll go?
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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Acevado - got rid of that
nasty gun show, now for the Rock concerts and Rap concerts!
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Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
26. And so on , and so forth
Edited on Wed Jan-20-10 10:02 PM by Katya Mullethov
Promoter says HEB is applying the pressure .
ATF says no crime .
Texans say " Well , no shit" .

http://www.examiner.com/x-2879-Austin-Gun-Rights-Examin...
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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. would make an exceptional poster child for the VPC


-------------------------------------------------

Corporal Scott Perry is a Public Information Officer for the APD. When asked if they somehow forced HEB to institute the FFL rule, he said no.
When theres a nuisance abatement issue, APD gathers all interested parties together and explains the next step in the abatement process. However, the final decision was up to HEB. We never put any stipulations onto anything, said Perry, we only asked that illegal aliens and convicted felons stop buying guns.

-------------------------------------------------


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oneshooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #28
29.  Austin is a sanctuary city,
A LOT of illegals there. If they don't want them to buy guns, then show them the way home.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
33. Yep- just spread those guns to any old body!
Yee Haa!

Let's shoot up the state capital!
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-23-10 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. This body is pretty old, but I have enough already, thanks. (nt)
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