Despite Security Worries, NRA Seems Set to Prevail in Shoot-Out Over Guns on Trains

[DainBramaged]

The gun lobby appears poised to crush its foes once again in the showdown over whether to allow firearms on Amtrak trains.

In a development that has alarmed homeland security experts and gun control groups alike, a National Rifle Association (NRA)-backed amendment that would reverse post-9/11 security policies and permit railway passengers to pack guns and ammunition in their Amtrak luggage seems to be speeding rapidly to congressional passage.

A new, slightly tweaked version of the so-called Wicker amendment—named for GOP Sen. Roger Wicker of Mississippi—was negotiated Tuesday night that will delay actual implementation of the "guns on trains" provision until late next year. But hopes of blocking the measure entirely now seem doomed. "If you'll excuse the pun, it looks like the train has left the station," said one congressional staffer who has been working feverishly (and unsuccessfully) to try to stop the provision.

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/declassified/archive/2009/12/09/despite-security-worries-nra-seems-set-to-prevail-in-shoot-out-over-guns-on-trains.aspx


Guns guns everywhere. Pack them guns in every bag you put on the train. Lets make the safest forms of transportation a killing field for the paranoid and a greater target for terrorists. I am so fucking tired of having to worry about guns where there shouldn't be guns. And if all of you gun butts are so afraid of going anywhere without your precious guns, just stay home in your safe rooms, the boogie mans can't get you there.


Absurd.

[paulsby]

1. all your canards aside

you don't have to "worry about guns where there shouldn't be guns"

but here's a hint. there are guns on amtrak NOW. LEO's carry legally and criminals carry illegally.

in the future, LEO's and CCW'ers will carry legally. criminals will still carry illegally

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

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[TheWraith]

9. Funny how you complain about "fear tactics" while defending the scaremongering. nt

[paulsby]

11. you're the one who has fear

you say you are WORRIED about guns on the train.

i'm not

therefore, you are the worrier, and you are the scaredy-cat.

hth

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

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[PavePusher]

30. Ahhh, the ignorant is strong in this one.... n/t

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

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[taurus145]

41. Show me one. Just one.

You can't. The fantasy you describe is a product of your imagination and anti-RKBA fear-mongering.

[proteus_lives]

29. Grabbers and their violent language.

Such narrow and hostile people.

No wonder you're such a fringe group.

[beevul]

53. If only they realized how true that is.

"Such narrow and hostile people. No wonder you're such a fringe group."

Its funny, but at the same time, theres much truth to how narrow, nasty, pushy and hostile they can get.


The part that gets me though, is they have no recognition of how being that way really HAS reduced them to what is at worst a fringe group, and at best something far less than mainstream.

They blame the nra, yet have done more harm to thier own movement themselves.

[rd_kent]

31. What fucking "fear tactics"? Or is this just another inflammatory hit and run, like usual?

[onehandle]

2. I wonder what Vice President Biden thinks about penis enlargers on Amtrak?

I mean guns.

[X_Digger]

15. Sad

You really should bring your "A" game, not tired cliches and insults.

Oh wait, I forgot.. that's the best you have.

[beevul]

51. I wonder...

Me, I wonder what he thinks of his security detail carrying those fully automatic penis enlargers...


:rofl:

[Name removed]

3. Deleted sub-thread

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[TheWraith]

5. Oh please. Spare me the Bush administration terrorism scare horseshit.

Fearmongering and paranoia doesn't change the fact that the number of credible terrorism incidents in this country is negligible, as is the number of people shooting up a random public venue.

[TheMadMonk]

25. And yet gun related violence is much much higher than in countries...

...where there are strong restrictions on gun ownership/possesion in public.

And don't bother with the tired old "I survived because I WASN'T wearing my seatbelt." style arguments. Special circumstances are not applicable to general cases.

[X_Digger]

26. Our NON-gun violence level is higher than other countries _total_ violence

Not to mention that our gun violence has gone _down_ at the same time gun ownership has gone _up_. So the underlying principle that you're trying to make doesn't hold water (more guns = more violence).

[TheMadMonk]

36. Then how about you address the underlying problems in your nation.

Racism and elitism probably being the two biggest contributing factors.

[Katya Mullethov]

42. I have seen this personally

Dont leave out fetal alcohol syndrome and gang culture .

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/slideshow/news/21702289/detail.html?qs=1;s=1;p=news&dm=ss&tn=b

[TheMadMonk]

44. For which the two biggest contributing factors are racism & elitism.

Gotta keep the have nots down and at each other's throats, so the have mores can keep accumulating.

[X_Digger]

49. You're preaching to the choir on this one.

Many here in the gungeon advocate working on the sources of social inequality that act as a factor in promoting crime and criminal behavior, rather than any one particular tool that ends up being used by criminals but is also overwhelmingly used by law abiding citizens as well.

[beevul]

50. Special circumstances?

Like D.C, and CA, and Chicago?

Wouldn't be quite proper to talk about how gun related violence is much much higher than in countries where there are strong restrictions on gun ownership/possesion without also mentioning that the worst levels of gun violence in America, are usually places that have your so-called strong restrictions in effect, now, would it?


Let me guess. Thats the fault of other states/places, right?

[Forkboy]

6. Bullet train takes on a whole new meaning.

[jgraz]

7. Wait, I can't bring my cat on Amtrak, but I can bring a gun?

As usual, the NRA pushes the boundaries of un-fucking-believable.

[gorfle]

18. AS CHECKED BAGGAGE!

Wait, I can't bring my cat on Amtrak, but I can bring a gun? As usual, the NRA pushes the boundaries of un-fucking-believable.

No, what is un-fucking-believable is how many people in this tread did not read the fucking article.

All this bill does is allow travel by train with a firearm EXACTLY AS YOU CURRENTLY TRAVEL BY PLANE WITH A FIREARM.

YOU CARRY IT AS CHECKED BAGGAGE.

Now I believe that people with concealed carry permits most certainly SHOULD be able to carry a firearm on their person on trains and planes, but that is not what this bill is about.

[GreenStormCloud]

21. NRA isn't pushing the boundaries, they are restoring the boundaries.

Until 9-11, it was permissible to check guns in baggage on Amtrak. How is a gun that is locked in the baggage going to cause harm on the train?

[rd_kent]

35. What un-fucking-beleivable is how ignorant you are on this issue.

And by posting horseshit like that only HIGHLIGHTS the ignorance. Why don't you try actually READING what this is about.

[The Straight Story]

8. Did the attackers on 9/11 use guns? (nt)

[TheWraith]

10. Nope, even though you can bring guns on aircraft the same way.

Unloaded and locked in a secure case.

[MineralMan]

12. Packed in luggage? So. You can do that on planes, too.

Where's the risk here?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

13. Snakes on a plane, I mean guns on a train. Oh wait they are packed away in baggage. You scare easy.

[X_Digger]

14. "The sky is falling!"

Gee, where are all the stories of people pre-9/11 using guns (stored in checked luggage) to wreak havoc?

[beevul]

16. Because it tickles me so...

[gorfle]

17. IT IS FOR CHECKED BAGGAGE - THE SAME AS AIRPLANES!

"But as Declassified reported last month, the Senate voted 68 to 30 votes to adopt an amendment that would cut off $1.5 billion in federal subsidies to Amtrak unless the national passenger corporation relaxes its security polices and allows passengers to pack guns in their checked luggage."

This is the same policy as is currently available for checked baggage on airplanes.

When I fly up to Minnesota to go duck hunting with my Dad, I check my unloaded, declared shotgun as checked baggage. This baggage is handled separately from the rest of the baggage so it doesn't get stolen while spinning around on the baggage carousel.

All this bill does is allow traveling by train with firearms to work the same way as it does on an airplane.

[benEzra]

19. OH NOES!!! TREATING TRAINS LIKE AIRLINERS!!! THE HORROR!!!!!111

:eyes:

I've checked guns through on airliners before. Now I have the option of doing the same thing on a train. Big fricking deal.

[GreenStormCloud]

20. That was standard Amtrak policy for decades. Nothing bad happened then.

So if nothing bad happened during all the decades that passengers could check gun in baggage, why the fear that something bad will happen now?

[GreenStormCloud]

22. Isn't it amazing how easily the antis get scared and worried about guns.

Here they are worried about guns that are checked as baggage.

In NYC, they are trying to outlaw the sale of TOY guns.

Amazing, how easily they scare.

[GreenStormCloud]

23. This part of the Newsweek story is hilarious.

"House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and House Majority Leader Rep. Steny Hoyer are loath to risk the ire of the NRA given the large number of "blue dog" Democrats from Southern and rural districts who fear the gun lobby's wrath."

No, they don't fear the NRA. They are often members of the NRA and were elected by the people because they actually belive in a pro-RKBA stance. Why is that so hard for Newsweek to realize?

[PavePusher]

32. Why is it so hard...

for Nance and friends to understand?!

:shrug:

[paulsby]

56. replace NRA with NOW or NARAL and "gun lobby's wrath" with "abortion lobby's wrath"

and you will see how absurd the argument is

[armueller2001]

24. OH NOOOO!!!

What if the guns unpack themselves from the CHECKED LUGGAGE and start shooting people on their own!!

Hmm... doesn't happen on airliners.

READ THE ARTICLE... USE COMMON SENSE...

[JonQ]

27. Terrorists! Terrorists everywhere!

Be afraid, guns are evil and will jump out and get you at any moment! Even those packed in locked cases and unloaded where you can't get to them!

[rd_kent]

33. This is old news and your talking points are even older.

This bill would only allow legal gun owners to transport a gun in CHECKED BAGGAGE, you know JUST LIKE ON AIRPLANES. But you knew that.

Once again, you are inflammatory, disingenous and disparaging. So very typical of you.



Perhaps mods will do even more housekeeping.........it time to take out the trash.

[aikoaiko]

37. "a killing field for the paranoid and a greater target for terrorists."

yeah, you've got the fear mongering thing down pat. This kind of fear mongering is why anti-gun, anti-rkba people like you are losing so badly. No one can take you seriously when you say stupid shit such as suggesting this policy makes "a killing field for the paranoid and a greater target for terrorists."

This policy does nothing to make trains more dangerous places or transportation.

[friendly_iconoclast]

38. The TERRA TERRA TERRA meme's not just for weak-minded Pubbies, it seems

People are just about peeing themseves in fear on the LBN thread.

This will go down in history with "blood in the streets", ".50 Caliber Terror", and "cop-killing bullets".

[friendly_iconoclast]

39. Did you think there weren't criminals with guns on trains already?

Did you think those signs in the stations actually prevented anyone from bringing a gun on board?

How naive of you.

At least *legal* gun owners can now use the rails and save some energy.

[Euromutt]

40. Entirely contrived "security worries"

I'd like to share with you some wisdom from Gavin de Becker, specifically from his book Fear Less:

Though there are thousands of security precautions, they all fit into two broad categories:

Category One: Those implemented to reduce risk
Category Two: Those implemented to reduce anxiety

Both types of precaution are important and both have meaning, but they are not the same. Unfortunately, when it comes to security, the American way has often been to implement procedures that are more relevant to assuaging public anxiety than they are to reducing risk.

Prohibiting firearms in checked luggage on Amtrak was what de Becker calls a Category Two measure. I've traveled on Amtrak quite a few times since 9/11--admittedly only on the West Coast--and I can tell you exactly what physically prevented someone bent on mass murder from carrying a firearm onto a train: nothing. It's as effective as a "No Guns" sign on a college campus or a mall entrance; without any actual Category One measures to physically prevent someone from bringing a gun into one of those locations, it doesn't do a thing to make anybody safer. And that means that ceasing to do it doesn't make anybody less safe.

I don't understand this apparent inability on the part of people who have a severe dislike of firearms to understand that "security" measures that are purely cosmetic don't make anyone safer (except perhaps the people who are intent on criminal violence), and that it therefore is not a security hazard to stop carrying out those measures.

[one-eyed fat man]

45. Category Two: Those implemented to reduce anxiety

I think you could also define those as "deceptive ploys by cynical politicians to make stupid people feel better."

That there are more than enough stupid people gullible enough to believe that those worthless measures accomplish anything is amply demonstrated here daily..........and keeps those politicians safely esconced in their offices. When the charlatan's "cure" fails, an effective charlatan sells you more of it.

[one-eyed fat man]

43. exactly how does

allowing train passengers to transport guns in their checked baggage using the same procedures used by the airlines to transport guns in checked baggage rise to this shrill paroxysm of panty-pissing paranoia?

[JonQ]

46. Because . . .

GUNS!!! Don't you see? They are the spawn of satan, they corrupt everything they are near. They make peaceful people in to mass murderers.

[slackmaster]

47. Key words "checked baggage", which is the same rule that applies to taking guns on airplanes

:nuke:

[rd_kent]

48. ANOTHER HIT AND RUN POST!!!! WHAT A COWARD YOU ARE.

[Lurks Often]

52. Oh No!!!

Oh No!!!

It's the end of the world, let's run out around screaming and shouting because Congress approved a law that will allow UNLOADED AND LOCKED firearms in the cargo compartment of a train when the passengers don't have access to the cargo compartment. A law just like the one the airlines use. Please remind of the last time there was a shootout at 25,000 feet in a plane?

[virginia mountainman]

54. It is the mentality displayed in this post, and news article..

Which clearly demonstrates, WHY, we win. As long as the Anti-gunners continue to act this way, we will continue to wipe the floor with them at the polls.

[beevul]

55. Yep. Spot on, that.

Thats EXACTLY why.

Because we will not allow people with that mentality to make decisions that effect our civil rights regarding amendment 2, and rights regarding firearms are concerned.

And people on the fence...well, outwardly and openly displaying that mentality is neither going to win them over or convince them that those with that mentality are in any way "reasonable".

I'd say that about sums it up.