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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 12:46 PM
Original message
Why do hunters think Obama is going to take away their guns?
Is this just right wing fear mongering?
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. because the RW has spent decades perpetuating the idea that dems are gonna take their guns and jesus
away...

even though it never happens, it's a most sucessful fear card.
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ismnotwasm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. 1+
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. +2
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. +3
They're susceptible to extreme RW propaganda.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. To be accurate, we've sometimes helped them along with that.
Dem leaders in Congress warned Clinton that the 1994 "Assault Weapons Ban" against rifles that had a military look to them would be a disaster in the mid-terms--particularly with DiFi out there trumpeting that she would have had all guns in the country seized if she could have--but Clinton didn't listen, and it helped throw more fuel on the Gingrich revolution that November.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. Yup, it's a time-honored tradition
"Dems will take your guns & Bibles"
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
28. "...and allow 'dem gays to live like ennybuddy else duz".
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #28
92. The gays and transgendered I know are armed. (nt)
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
40. +4
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mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
42. before there was even a clear nominee
I heard a few people in NM say that "If the Democrats win, they'll take our guns."
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
3. Because they are credulous ninnies...
...prone to hysteria.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Ninnies?
Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?










:evilgrin:
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. As a matter of fact, I don't.
Edited on Mon Oct-26-09 01:09 PM by Birthmark
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. I'm not surprised.
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Oh, you know my mom?
Then you'll understand the disease risk involved in kissing her.
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rd_kent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #27
73. Where do you think the she got the disease in the first place?
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
23. Including idiotic support for assault weapons.
On the other side, hunters tend to be great allies on the environment.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. What do you think "assault weapon" means?
I'm always amazed at the answers I get to that...
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friendly_iconoclast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #26
71. "Assault weapon" means the same as "Obama's secret plan"
Something scary, yet ill-defined that is useful for keeping the credulous in a panic...
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #23
61. You mean "idiotic support for the most popular civilian rifles in America"?
And you wonder why gun owners (most of whom own guns for defensive purposes and target shooting, not hunting) feel threatened when you want to outlaw the most popular defensive and target guns?
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one-eyed fat man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #3
60. let's look our party's own official words
Edited on Tue Oct-27-09 08:44 AM by one-eyed fat man
From the Platform of Democratic Party 2008

"Firearms
12 We recognize that the right to bear arms is an important part of the American tradition,
13 and we will preserve Americans continued Second Amendment right to own and use
14 firearms. We believe that the right to own firearms is subject to reasonable regulation, but
15 we know that what works in Chicago may not work in Cheyenne. We can work together
16 to enact and enforce common-sense laws and improvements, like closing the gun show
17 loophole, improving our background check system and reinstating the assault weapons
18 ban, so that guns do not fall into the hands of terrorists or criminals. Acting responsibly
19 and with respect for differing views on this issue, we can both protect the constitutional
20 right to bear arms and keep our communities and our children safe."

From Candidate Obama's website last fall

http://obama.3cdn.net/84b2062fc4a5114715_f ...

"As a long-time resident and elected official of Chicago, Barack Obama has seen the impact of fully automatic
weapons in the hands of criminals. Thus, Senator Obama supports making permanent the expired federal
Assault Weapon Ban." (Note how cleverly he proposes to solve the machinegun problem by banning guns that are not machineguns)

In the past year, both the Secretary of State and the Attorney General have joined Senator Dianne Feinstein in claiming the Assault Weapons Ban needs to be reinstated to keep Mexican drug cartels from getting Rocket Propelled Grenades.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2 ...

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=69 ...

Let me see, party platform calls for a ban, President calls for a ban as a candidate, high administration officials call for a ban. They put it in writing, cover the airwaves in deceptive soundbites about "RPGs and machinguns" yammering about the need to reinstate the "expired ban on assault weapons," and that is not "ginning up fear that they want to take guns away from people."

They keep telling me they want to keep 'gang-bangers and Mexican drug lords from getting grenades and machineguns' by outlawing stuff which is neither and you say I am wrong to believe them? Especially after they did exactly that in 1994? Who is the delusional looney-tune?

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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #60
74. obama needs to check himself
"As a long-time resident and elected official of Chicago, Barack Obama has seen the impact of fully automatic
weapons in the hands of criminals. Thus, Senator Obama supports making permanent the expired federal
Assault Weapon Ban." (Note how cleverly he proposes to solve the machinegun problem by banning guns that are not machineguns)
"

the impact of FULLY AUTOMATIC WEAPONS in CHICAGO.

when? during the st valentine's day massacre?

seriously, how many crimes in chicago are committed with FULLY AUTOMATIC WEAPONS and what %age of gun crimes are FULLY AUTOMATIC WEAPONS used?

if it's anything like the rest of the country, it's going to be UNDER 1%.

this is the kind of crap that just makes him look like a panderer.
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eqfan592 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #60
79. Well said! +1 (nt)
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. Jeebus wants to take their guns, and gun nuts are more likely to kill Jeebus than liberals.
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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
64. Did you have to work hard to come
up with a statement this stupid or does it just come naturally to you?

This adds nothing at all to the discussion, what there is of it.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #4
85. I cam across the expression Jeebus in a Majorie Kinnan Rawlings novel...
South Moon Under. The character referencing "Jeebus" was a deranged witness in a fictional trial in Ocala.

Rawlings was well-armed, shotgun and a .44 (referenced in Cross Creek). She was quite sane.
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HowHasItComeToThis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
5. IT'S A STRATEGY YOU GUYS
CREATE CONTROVERSY WHERE THERE IS NONE. BE THE VICTIM
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GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
67. But there is real controversy.
Look at Obama's voting record with regard to guns. Read what he has said. Read our party's platform.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #5
82. Check out Obama & the Party's statements upstream. Who needs "strategy?"
when it is so simple to print & e-mail these statements to your supporters? Haven't you considered -- just for a moment -- that you could de-fang this ominous "strategy" by simply removing the onerous Party platform statement, and encouraging Obama to re-educate himself about firearms in our society and making a clean break from his gun-control history?

Or maybe you think it preferable to drag these things behind you like a bad fart -- while blaming others.
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T Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
6. Of course it is. Just like forced homosexual marriages and mandatory worship of Allah,
the pukes count on the ignorance and stupidity of their core groups for votes and dollars and Tea-bagging rioters to produce their foot soldiers.

Lying to hunters is the same tactic - rile them up but never deliver. I think it appeals to hunters because they view a black President as a direct threat to their manhood and holding onto their weapons is the only defense when threatened.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #6
86. More references to "ignorance," "stupidity," and now the usual "manhood...."
Please be advised that less than 20 per cent of gun-owners are hunters. Hunters don't need to be "lied to," and they don't represent (as referenced) the big bulk of voters who own guns. Evidently, you are studiously and intentionally ignorant of this fact.

I really don't know what your pop-psychology about "manhood" means, except as more of the crappola spewed out by the non-liberal culture warriors who advocate gun-control. Some of you guys are always turning Freud on his head, here. (Keep in mind that he/she who first smelt it dealt it.)

Now answer this: Do you support the Party Platform re: banning "assault weapons?" Do you support Obama's positions advocating bans on these weapons and even semi-auto pistols?

Hell, do you even acknowledge these positions exist and what they mean?

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gmoney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
10. Because some "liberals" are in favor of sensible gun control laws
Like background checks, and registration and licensing, closing the gunshow loopholes, and trigger locks and so on and so forth.

And since this is Uhmuhricuh, the Bible and/or Constitution commands us all to have concealed, unregistered, loaded firearms on our person at all time. Anything less is unconstitutional and commonist!
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
25. Sigh
Like background checks, and registration and licensing, closing the gunshow loopholes, and trigger locks

I bet a dollar you can't accurately describe the "gun show loophole".
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friendly_iconoclast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #25
70. The "gun show loophole" = "Keep the government away from my Medicaid!"
for Democrats....
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #25
87. Betta a dollar he/she cuts out (nt)
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snagglepuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
11. Because they're farmers.
Just sayin. }(
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timo Donating Member (890 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #11
33. farmers?
if you have something bad to say about farmers, dont talk with your mouth full!!
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
13. Because hunters own more guns than just traditional-looking hunting guns
And those guns many Democrats and DUers want to make ridiculously hard to purchase, illegal to purchase, or illegal to own.

And some Democrats and DUers see this as the first step to get rid of virtually all guns.


And some Democrats and DUers see this as simply a way to strike out at the "conservative lifestyle".
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
14. Cause he's a DEMMYCRAT.
And DEMMYCRATS are gunna TAKE YER GUNZ.
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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #14
65. Learn to spell
then ask your mom if you can use her computer.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
15. they need a big pile of legalistic er legitimate gripes to excuse their obvious racism.
that's about it. They must know their puny guns would not stand up to a determined federal force trying to maintain order in an emergency situation (which they claim to be saving their guns for) Or is it turban wearing dark skinned graduates of NYU? hard to tell...
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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
66. What does racism have to do with
Clinton, Holder, Biden, whitehouse.gov, change.gov, the Democratic party platform among others stating that the AWB must be re-instated and the non-existent 'gunshow loophole' must be closed?
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #15
81. You have turned reality on its head...
The current gun-control laws are founded on the gun control laws of the South, from colonial days, through the antebellum period, through Jim Crow, and into the 20th Century; in fact, leading gun-control advocates in the latter 1960s conceded that the motivation for the Gun Control Act of 1968 was designed "to shut off weapons access to blacks... while leaving over-the-counter purchases to the affluent." -- Journalist Robert Sherrill.

Don't you consider it ironic that so-called "liberals" in the North have taken up ol' Jim Crow's banner after it was ripped down in the South? If you don't, then you wouldn't know that playing the race card sometimes reveals racism within the player.
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
16. Why do people keep pretending Obama taking guns is the problem
More people are concerned with:
Egregious registration and licensing
Arbitrary gun and magazine bans
Capricious legal barriers to owning guns


Obama has said he supports just about everything from assault weapons bans to total handgun bans. There are some democrats who are quite vocal about their support for various programs to harass gun owners.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
17. Because many of them are too stupid and/or too ignorant to know better.
Edited on Mon Oct-26-09 01:07 PM by TexasObserver
Ever been to the Gungeon? It's scary down there.
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. I'm not so bad once you get to know me
Honest. :hi:
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #17
75. Why is the Gungeon so scary? ...
Admittedly the pro-gunners seem to present good arguments based on fact while the anti-gunners tend to use emotion and insults. I should note that I am pro-gun, but in my opinion that's the truth.

If your arguments are worth the time to post them, you should be brave enough to step into the ring with the tough guys no matter what side you take on the issue. It's fun and sometimes you learn something.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #17
84. What are you afraid of?
I note a lot of references to "stupid" and "ignorant," as if these terms somehow serve as a short-cut for good argument. Good argument in fact may be scary to some.

Again, please note the statements in the Democratic Party Platform and on Obama's web site(s). Do you seriously think that having these statements prominently featured would escape notice of people who are against these positions? Do you really seriously think that?

Waving a red cape in front of a bull (and pretending you aren't doing so) is REALLY stupid.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
21. Because Wayne LaPierre works very hard at $hilling
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #21
88. Not really. It's easy work -- when the Party & Obama line-item for him (nt)
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
24. It's not hunters. Most gun owners don't hunt.
Obama has expressed support for renewing the Assault Weapons Ban. If you support that law, it's only because you don't know what it actually says.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
29. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
haroldweeks Donating Member (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
30. Who is saying that?
I had not heard this one
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. Gallup Poll: Do you think Obama will attempt to ban the sale of guns?
PRINCETON, NJ -- A new Gallup poll may explain recent reports of increased gun and ammunition sales in the U.S. Majorities of those who personally own a gun (55%) and of those with a gun in the household (53%), as well as 41% of all Americans, believe that President Obama "will attempt to ban the sale of guns in the United States while he is president."

The issue of Obama's intentions relating to guns has particular relevance given the widespread news reports of sharply increased sales of guns and ammunition. Many of these reports suggest that the reason behind these increased sales is the belief -- right or wrong -- that the president intends to severely curtail the legal availability of guns and ammunition. A recent National Public Radio news story, for example, reported: "Gun dealers and bullet-makers are straining to keep up with record demand for ammunition. Some dealers think it's because of fear that President Obama might limit gun use. Although the president has made no specific proposal, bullets for sportsmen have been scarce for months."

And similar themes were struck in an Associated Press report: "American bullet-makers are working around the clock, seven days a week, and still cannot keep up with the nation's demand for ammunition. Shooting ranges, gun dealers, and bullet manufacturers say they have never seen such shortages. Bullets, especially for handguns, have been scarce for months because gun enthusiasts are stocking up, in part because they fear that President Obama and the Democratic-controlled Congress will pass antigun legislation -- even though nothing specific has been proposed and the president signed a law allowing people to carry loaded guns in national parks."

Gallup's question documents that for a majority of gun owners, the belief that the president intends to try to ban the sale of guns is apparently quite real. One is reminded of the sociological principle that if people believe a situation to be real, the consequences are real -- whether or not that belief is factually correct. Thus, although the survey did not ask directly whether those who hold the belief that Obama wants to ban gun sales have acted on that belief in terms of increased purchases of guns and ammunition, a connection between the belief and the behavior is a logical hypothesis.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/123602/many-gun-owners-think...
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #34
45. Where in the poll do they identify the % of hunters that believe that?
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OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #34
54. Most hunters DO NOT think this.
On the other hand, alot of gun owners do and an overwhelming majority of people that own guns are not hunters.

Hunters traditinoally bolt action rifles or shotguns with the occasional muzzle laoder.
However, semi-automatic sport utility rifles (pictured below) are being used to hunt more and more nowadays.
In fact, it's now the most popular rifle in America.

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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #34
89. Do you acknowledge that both Obama and the Party Platform call for bans...
on numerous types of semi-auto rifles and pistols? Is it reasonable, say, that a liberal Democrat should believe a right-wing Republican when he/she says they are for gay rights when the record and statements of said Republicans says otherwise?

I find it fascinating to the point of fantasy that gun-controllers bandy about expressions like "stupidity," "ignorance," "manhood threats," and vulgarize expressions and words to paint a picture of millions of Americans as semi-literate, YET there is a rigid, intentional, even prideful refusal to acknowledge that our Party platform and our President and many of our Party leaders have called (and continue to call) for the very bans that the "stupid" and "ignorant" are chastised for believing.

I don't know how this squares with your "sociological principles," but the CONTINUED LOCKING-IN of these Democratic positions in the face of obvious political self-abuse comes close to a definition of addiction.

Do words, records, and philosophy matter anymore? Please. Offer some explanation for our Party's behavior.
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Tsar_Bomba Donating Member (194 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
31. In my opinion this is because the right wing
benefits from painting liberals as naive because they believe in the rule of law. Right wingers talk a lot about defending the beat cop or laws in general but only until these laws interfere or conflict with right wing philosophy. For example they defend gun rights but where will it end. A liberal will legislate a gun law, something like a license to carry. This would be totally reasonable since we need a license to drive a car. The right winger makes a big deal over it, next thing you know their talking about personal nuclear weapons and their constitutional rights to have them, and if we object we are back were we started.

The right does not believe in the rule of law, we have seen this in the GWB administration. This is the issue that needs to be pushed whenever we deal with the right, use their rhetoric against them all the time.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #31
68. Actually, it's always the gun-control nuts...
who bring up the "Well, what about nukes" strawman. Nice, try, utter fail.

"The right does not believe in the rule of law..." You haven't talked to many of them, have you?

You are sadly misinformed on this subject.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #31
90. The right wing is correct about "liberals as naive..."
How else can you explain why Obama and the Party and many of its leaders continue -- in PRINT -- to call for the very bans which unnecessarily perpetuate a culture war? If this behavior is not naive, then it is (in the words of several of the gun-controllers here) "stupid" and "ignorant."

Personally, I think gun-controllers have been caught up in a culture war they are losing, and the terms of battle are now unalloyed hatred -- from both sides. THIS is what leads to the almost irrational inclusion of the above-referenced statements which are designed to inflame and NOTHING else. This behavior by so-called "liberals" borders on addiction.
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
32. Fear + paranoia + rascism + NRA = Obama's gonna take away guns
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. Add a little Ted Nugent-esque belligerence to that, and ya got a tune!
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. I smell a hit single for the Nuge!!!
Teabag Fever, maybe?
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #32
46. It couldn't have anything to do with his voting record or his campaign or whitehouse.gov.
:eyes:
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #32
91. Gun-control is racism personified...
www.georgiacarry.org Search locally for the Heller brief, submitted in the SCOTUS decision.

Then come back and speak to us of racism.
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Allyoop Donating Member (147 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
35. North Carolina
Appalachian Mountains. Advanced education is not typical of lots of our neighbors. One just told me the other day that "They" are going to ban knives! Don't know where all this stuff is coming from unless it's from Fox. I just laughed and said that's a lot of hooey. "They" haven't banned guns yet have they? I think they don't bother to Google stuff they hear - they just hear what they want to.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. The hunters I know in Wisconsin are pretty smart guys
I'm talking about engineers and computer programmers who hunt deer or fowl. But if they subscribe to any kind of gun group, this is the kind of crap they're told.
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #35
52. re 'knives'.. a kernel of truth..

19 CFR PART 177 PROPOSED REVOCATION OF RULING LETTERS AND REVOCATION OF TREATMENT RELATING TO THE ADMISSIBILTY OF CERTAIN KNIVES WITH SPRING-ASSISTED OPENING MECHANISMS
AGENCY: U.S. Customs and Border Protection, Department of Homeland Security.
ACTION: Notice of proposed revocation of four ruling letters and revocation of treatment relating to the admissibility of certain knives with spring-assisted opening mechanisms.
http://www.kniferights.org/U%20S%20Customs%20Proposed%2...
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 07:10 AM
Response to Reply #35
58. Ummm...
Advanced education is not typical of lots of our neighbors. One just told me the other day that "They" are going to ban knives!

Ummmm....

The Department of Customs recently proposed a rule that would have reclassified all common assisted-opening pocketknives, and potentially most heavy-blade folders, as "switchblades", thereby subjecting them to the Federal switchblade ban. Knife owners spoke out, and a bipartisan coalition passed legislation to slap down the bureaucracy and preserve the status quo. I'm surprised you weren't aware of it, but outdoor enthusiasts were all over it.

http://www.kfsm.com/news/sns-ap-ar--pryor-pocketknives,...

Pryor amendment keeps pocket knives out of federal switchblade ban

By Associated Press

11:42 AM CDT, October 21, 2009
LITTLE ROCK, Ark. (AP) Arkansas Sen. Mark Pryor is praising a Senate amendment that keeps pocket knives and utility knives exempt from a federal ban on switchblades.

The Democratic senator says that an amendment to the Department of Homeland Security appropriations bill clarifies that a 1958 federal switchblade ban not include pocket knives. The Senate approved the bill Tuesday night.

Earlier this year, the U.S. Customs and Border Patrol suggested a reinterpretation of the switchblade ban to include the imports of many folding knives. A spokeswoman said earlier this year that the proposal aimed to bring consistency to rulings issued over the years.

Pryor said Wednesday that he worked with homeland security and customs officials to exempt pocket knives from the import ban.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #35
76. There actually was an attempt to ban some folding knives...
as they were viewed as switchblade knives.

Hunters, whittlers and Boy Scouts, beware - your knives may soon be on the government's chopping block.

The Obama administration wants to expand the 50-year-old ban on importing "switchblades" to include folding knives that can be opened with one hand, stirring fears the government may on the path to outlawing most pocket knives.

Critics, including U.S. knife manufacturers and collectors, the National Rifle Association, sportsmen's groups and a bipartisan group of lawmakers on Capitol Hill, say the rule change proposed by Customs and Border Protection (CBP) would rewrite U.S. law defining what constitutes a switchblade and potentially make de facto criminals of the estimated 35 million Americans who use folding knives.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jun/24/bid-to-... /



Pryor amendment keeps pocket knives out of federal switchblade ban
By Associated Press

11:42 AM CDT, October 21, 2009
LITTLE ROCK, Ark. (AP) Arkansas Sen. Mark Pryor is praising a Senate amendment that keeps pocket knives and utility knives exempt from a federal ban on switchblades.

The Democratic senator says that an amendment to the Department of Homeland Security appropriations bill clarifies that a 1958 federal switchblade ban not include pocket knives. The Senate approved the bill Tuesday night.

Earlier this year, the U.S. Customs and Border Patrol suggested a reinterpretation of the switchblade ban to include the imports of many folding knives. A spokeswoman said earlier this year that the proposal aimed to bring consistency to rulings issued over the years.

Pryor said Wednesday that he worked with homeland security and customs officials to exempt pocket knives from the import ban.
http://www.wreg.com/sns-ap-ar--pryor-pocketknives,0,283...


In case you feel this fight was led by the NRA visit this site.

Knife Rights News Slice - WE DID IT!

WE STOPPED CUSTOMS Pocket Knife Grab! The Senate has passed the conference report for the fiscal year 2010 Homeland Security Appropriations Bill with our amendment to the Federal Switchblade Act intact. The bill will now be sent to the President for signature. There is no indication that he would veto the bill.

This is the culmination of an incredible effort on the part of Knife Rights, American Knife and Tool Institute, NRA, Congressional Sportsmen's Foundation, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms and many other organizations who contributed. Each organization made key contributions to the effort, without which the end result might not have turned out so well. Not many folks gave us much hope of succeeding when Customs first proposed revoking their rulings and redefining what is a switchblade back in May. At a time when bipartisanship is rare as hen's teeth in Washington, we garnered support from both sides of the aisle.

We succeeded because the coalition of groups that came together to fight Customs represented a broad swath of American industry and grassroots. We succeeded in large part because of YOUR contributions, letters and calls in support of our efforts. You can give yourself a pat on the back for your effort and a job well done against all odds. It is time to pop the cork on that bottle of champagne and celebrate a victory for your knife rights and for all America.

To help you celebrate and commemorate this incredible victory, please purchase one of our collectible "WE STOPPED Customs Pocket Knife Grab" coffee mugs, t-shirts or sweatshirts, available for a limited time only: www.cafepress.com/KnifeRights Proceeds will help pay off the incredibly high cost of accomplishing this victory.
http://www.kniferights.org/index.php?option=com_frontpa...


If you are unfamiliar with knifes, the ban would have stopped the import of many common pocket knifes. Most pocket knives sold today will open with one hand usually using a thumb stud or a hole in the blade. They also lock in place when open which is a great safety feature.

Like the assault weapons ban, this knife ban would have had little effect except to piss off a lot of people who carry a common pocket knife on an everyday basis for use as a tool. Pissed off people tend to go to the polls and vote. Since Obama and the Democrats were perceived to be pushing this idea, we look bad.

I don't want to insult you or your education which I'm sure is far superior to your neighbors, but you accuse your Appalachian Mountains neighbors of not using Google to find out if the knife ban rumor was true. Perhaps you should have used Google to do some research before you made that comment. A good place to start is to find forums on the subject. Knife forums were filled with comments about this knife ban. For the most part the news media, including Fox totally ignored the situation.





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glen123098 Donating Member (419 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
36. Because they are hunting with AK-47s and rocket launchers?
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #36
47. Fun facts.
An AK-47 is perfectly legal for hunting deer in Washington State.

No automatic weapons are legal for civilian ownership in Washington State.

An AR-15 is not legal for hunting deer in Washington State, because it is not powerful enough to humanely kill the deer.
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #36
59. All automatic weapons and rocket launchers have been tightly controlled for 75 years...
but it is certainly understandable that you might think they're not, given the MSM's general cluelessness on the issue. You can get Federal authorization to own them (BATFE Form 4), but you have to jump through the same hoops that you'd have to jump through to own an operational tank, WW2 howitzer, or bomb.

The gun control debate is about the right of mentally competent adults with clean records to purchase, own, and use non-automatic, non-sound-suppressed small arms under .51 caliber, plus over-.50 shotguns and a few over-.50 hunting rifles. It has nothing, zilch, nada to do with automatic weapons or rocket launchers.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #36
69. You are pretty ignorant about this topic, aren't you? Sigh. n/t
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #36
77. Welcome to DU. wander over to the sub forum called "Guns"
also know a the Gungeon.

You might learn something.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #36
83. Time for some edumacation...
In fact the AR-15 platform (the semi-automatic version of the M-16) is rapidly becoming the "new" hunting weapon. Chambered for larger rounds than the medium-powered M-16, it is a fine weapon in the field when hunting deer and other large game. They are shorter, more comfortable to carry, easy to shoot and have less recoil. The gun so many virulent gun-controllers want to ban IS RAPIDLY BECOMING the standard for hunting in the field. (SEE: fieldandstream.com and find the four-page ad by the National Shooting Sports Foundation where they give a brief overview of how military arms are "retired" to sporting use; i.e., the semi-auto rifle is an outgrowth of its "obsolescence" for military purposes.)

You can purchase semi-auto rifles for hunting from both Armalite and Remington -- and they are based on the AR-15 so-called "assault weapon."

For years gun-controllers have said "we don't want to ban your hunting rifles." So, glen123098, do you still want to ban AR-15s?
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SalviaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
41. They don't ALL believe that.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #41
48. Thats true.
Most of the gun owners I know are hunters, so its from them that I hear this stuff.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Many of the weapons that hunters use are included in the Assault Weapons ban of 1994
Which, Obama himself, his Press Secretary, and the former Change.Gov site all noted Obama in favor of restoring.

'Assault Weapon' is a fungible, non-technical term that is used to demonize hundreds of models of firearms that are perfectly normal in every mechanical sense.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #41
49. Just the ones reviewing WhiteHouse.Gov
MR. GIBBS: Well, you all have asked me and I think the answer has not changed on that. In order to get from one place to the other they have to go through the border. I think the President's initiative that was outlined by Governor Napolitano a few weeks ago to increase our assistance to border communities and to inspections on the border are important in terms of -- in terms of moving drugs south to north and guns north to south. I think a greater enforcement of the laws that are on our books are likely to have an impact in the security situation there. And I think the President will, over the course of the next -- both tomorrow and in the next few days discuss more the situation, the security situation surrounding President Caldern's action against drug cartels.

Q But the ban is on the books that we don't have assault weapons -- any ban on them. What does he think of that?

MR. GIBBS: Well, the President believes that there -- through enforcement of the existing laws that we have that we can make a dent in -- a significant dent in any gun violence.

Q In other words, he doesn't want to restore it.

MR. GIBBS: Well, the President supports it, but I don't think that --

Q He doesn't think he can do it.

MR. GIBBS: I don't think that -- as I've mentioned in here, there's a lot on our plate.

Q Are you saying that this is just going to be a non-starter for him, not just now, but looking ahead?

MR. GIBBS: Well, I think to boil down the problems that we have relating to the security situation and our help for the Mexican government in their courageous battle against drug cartels into just one thing would be to oversimplify a complex problem.
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
43. I don't believe it! Yes, I'm a hunter. . . Brady is a republican.
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CANDO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
44. NRA wedge issue and $$$$ in their coffers!
The only POTUS to disarm Americans was by the direction of GWB in New Orleans after Katrina.
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oneshooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #44
51.  You are wrong
It was Mayor Ray Nagin.

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, Police Superintendent P. Eddie Compass unleashed a wave of confiscations with these chilling words:

No one will be able to be armed. We will take all weapons. Only law enforcement will be allowed to have guns.

Both are Democrats.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas
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OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 06:47 AM
Response to Reply #44
55. Also, the '94 AWB effectively disarmed millions.
It was enacted by a HEAVY democratic majority during the Clinton Administration.
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OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #44
56. Don't forget LBJ and William J. Hughes ... both democrats too!
The democratic administration of Lyndon B Johnson was in office when the 1968 Gun Control Act was passed.
And the Dems struck again in 1986 when Rep. William J. Hughes (Dem, N.J.) surreptitiously included the Machine Gun ban in the FOPA, an otherwise perfect bill.

There is a rich history of Democrat politicians pushing antigun legislation... more so than republicans I would have to admit.
Which has been intriguing to me seeing as Charlton Heston was a democrat and Paul Helmke was a republican.
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Howzit Donating Member (918 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 03:19 AM
Response to Original message
53. They are reacting to his history at
the Joyce Foundation, and his voting history on gun laws in the senate.
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 07:04 AM
Response to Original message
57. Why the HELL do non-gun-owners think most gun owners are hunters?
Or that hunters and nonhunters alike are solely concerned with the banning of "huntin' gunz", rather than the banning of the most popular civilian target rifles, defensive carbines, and handguns in U.S. homes?

Clue: Fewer than 1 in 5 U.S. gun owners hunts. The most popular guns in the nation aren't hunting guns; they are the NONHUNTING guns that the U.S. gun-control lobby, and many of their Third Way/DLC disciples, have promised to ban.

I wrote the following to attempt to explain this in 2004, but obviously it's still apropos now:

Dems and the Gun Issue - Now What?
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #57
72. an even better question.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
62. Please provide a source to back up your premise
Thanks in advance.
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gorfle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
63. How long do we have to keep answering this question?
Why do hunters think Obama is going to take away their guns? Is this just right wing fear mongering?

Here is why:

The last time we had a Democratic President, Bill Clinton, he enacted the Assault Weapons Ban, which has since expired.

President Obama expressed his intent to re-instate this ban, and make it permanent. This was and still is on www.change.gov under urban policy. It was, until a couple of months ago, on www.whitehouse.gov, under urban policy. Fortunately, it has been removed, but many people think it has only been removed because such a policy decision is not possible now, not because the president no longer believes in it.

Shortly after President Obama's election, his appointed Attorney General, Eric Holder, also made a pitch for re-instating the assault weapons ban. This was roundly put down by Nancy Pelosi and others as not needed and that we would "enforce the laws we already have" - a direct parroting of the NRA's stance on gun control.

Gun control is still a part of the current Democratic Party Platform.

People are skeptical of the President's and Democrats' in general views on firearms because of the statements, current and past, of such people.

It is not "right wing fear mongering", it is taking them at their word.
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OttavaKarhu Donating Member (206 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
78. Which hunters? Which guns?
Which Obama?
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
80. Please cite where "hunting" is Constitutionally protected?
Hint: The people who are worried about gun-grabbing aren't, for the most part, "hunters".

And, historicly, they have been given every reason to be concerned.
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