Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

30/30 a cop killer? Oh come off it.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU
 
yost69 Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 01:48 PM
Original message
30/30 a cop killer? Oh come off it.
I was watching a show today on animal planet and they found a 30/30 hunting rifle. The narrator called it a cop killer.

Is this really what people think? Please tell me that someone paid them to say that.

I just can't understand what the hell is wrong with this country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
teranchala Donating Member (83 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. Only thing mine ever killed was varmints.
...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dhpgetsit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. It's a good deer rifle.
Any good deer rifle can be used to kill a person.
Any effort to ban hunting rifles in the US is going to fail.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Yeah because
hunting rifles are used for self defense. It says so right in the constitution - we are free to own guns, rifles, whatever for self defense and collection purposes. Verbatim from the founding fathers. Just ask any NRA member who insists on a strict reading of the constitution. Guns for self defense, just like the founding fathers stated.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Where does the constitution limit the 2nd to ONLY self defense? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #3
24. Considerably more Americans own guns for defensive purposes than hunt.
Less than 1 in 5 U.S. gun owners hunts, and a majority of hunters also own defensive-style firearms, or guns that are dual-purpose. Hunting guns are important, but they are only a small slice of the pie.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
backwoodsbob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #2
21. it isnt even a *good* deer rifle
too weak.In some areas a 30/30 is the MINIMUM you can deer hunt with.

Depending on the area I either take a 30.06 or a .300 magnum
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mercracer Donating Member (72 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Gooder
Dead is dead. The .30-30 at appropriate ranges will kill everything in North America. the .30-06 and Magnums will not kill any gooder..... Statistically, the .30-30 has taken more deer sized and larger game in North America than any other. The .30-06 comes in second.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #22
27. That isn't what he said.
Edited on Mon Aug-10-09 10:09 AM by Statistical
The .30-30 at appropriate ranges will kill everything in North America.

True but the key point is appropriate ranges. A .30-06 gives you a larger operating range for the same target.

.22LR has killed more humans than any other round in United States but I don't consider it a good defensive round.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #27
36. Do they always say 30-30 is great for brush
Because you cant see very far in the brush ?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. The "reasons" for using a 30-30 in the brush:
(1) the lever-action carbines (short-barreled rifles) are relatively light and easy to maneuver in brushy areas, when compared with longer bolt-action rifles;

(2) both hunter and hunted are more likely to encounter each other at shorter ranges; and

(2) the large (170 grain), slower-traveling bullets are said to be "brush busters;" that is, they will break through small twigs and leaves and still remain on target. This has been dis-proven by many modern ballisticians. In other words, the old 30-30 round is as likely to be deflected from the intended target by an intervening object as much higher-powered rounds.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. a 22 can be a cop killer and so can your fist
Edited on Sat Aug-08-09 02:23 PM by madrchsod
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Knowing little about firearms is typical of the media...
They are so stupid they actually believe they are smart.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ManiacJoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
6. It just shows that the person writing the narration
did not know much about firearms.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
8. Despite the effectiveness of lever-action firearms, they're not common street guns
They're a little slow to load, I guess, but you can discharge a lever-action rifle pretty fast. I've personally done it (once) in I think less than 7 seconds. And the cowboy-action guns hold 10 rounds of either .357 Mag or .44 Mag.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
virginia mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. We have jokingly called them "Appalachian Assault Rifles" for years..
Edited on Sat Aug-08-09 10:11 PM by virginia mountainman
Remember the opening to the classic TV show "the rifleman"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX2oZ6Kv_qo

In skilled hands, they can be just as fast as a semi auto, and if they are pistol calibers (357mag, 44mag), they can hold a heck of a lot of ammo.

They are not my "thing" but If I where armed with one of those Lever Action Rifles, and People where threatening my family outside, I would not feel inadequately armed. The magazine will it takes time to FULLY reload, you can add rounds, one or two at a time really easy, so it is a trade off.

Actually, they where used as MILITARY Rifles, early on, before the Bolt action caught on, it is a challenge, to use a lever action prone on the ground, this fact ultimately lead to their replacement by the bolt actions/

I hope none of the Anti Civil rights agitators see this, they will crap themselves.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. You could do a lot worse than a lever-action for self-defense
And that extra barrel length almost doubles the muzzle energy of the .357 and .44 Mags.

Winchester lists 1,830 ft/s for a .357 Mag, 158-grain bullet, from a rifle, and only 1,235 ft/s from a revolver.

And the .44 Mag from a rifle has more muzzle energy than either a .223 Rem or a 7.62x39mm. Okay, it may fly like a chucked brick, but it's devestating within 100 yards.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
virginia mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I don't want to be hit with a chucked brick!
Edited on Sat Aug-08-09 11:10 PM by virginia mountainman
LOL! Interesting numbers you brought back! I did not realize that!

Those numbers make it an EXCELLENT choice for self defense work that calls for a rifle, you just need to keep it within 100 yards.

I do know this, lots of locals, are deadly good with those things. They had to be, a 30-30 is truly only a marginal deer round at best, good shooting by folks that know their rifle makes the difference.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Yeah, it's a bit of a surprise
But the Magnums have enough propellent to take advantage of the longer barrel.

A longer barrel doesn't make as big of a difference with rounds like the .45 ACP or 9mm Luger.



Winchester Ammo's website is where I got the data from.

http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/rifle.aspx


I've found that theirs is the easist to use.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
virginia mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I bet a reloader...
Could use a faster powder, and REALLY get it going!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. What, 1,600 foot-pounds isn't enough for you???
I bet the guys at Buffalo Bore could hook you up. Their ammo is, um, potent.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hangingon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #14
28. A reloader can make the .30-30 a lot better.
If you have a bolt action .30-30 with a box magazine, you can use pointed bullets and gain a great deal. The tubular magazines of lever action rifles require rounded nose bullets.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
virginia mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. You can use a pointed bullet in a lever action 30-30
Edited on Mon Aug-10-09 01:54 PM by virginia mountainman
You use it for your first shot, the rest must be "round nose" bullets. Or you just load your rifle with two rounds, one in the chamber, one in the tube.

I know lots of folks that do that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mercracer Donating Member (72 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #11
25. Marginal my toe......
Over 1300 ft lbs at 200yds and over 1000 ft lbs at 300 yds....
Explain the concep of marginal to all of the Dead Deer.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Lever actions were the very first military repeaters, actually.
The Spencer Repeating Rifle, a .56 cal repeating rifle that held 7 rounds, was very popular among Union soldiers during the Civil War.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
virginia mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Very true!
And winchesters where issued to some MP's in the States, for security around Ammunition plants and such... They where still stocked in Army armories until the 1930s and 40s

Amazing how some arms stick around..

Like the M3 "grease gun" submachine guns, that where issued to some tank units in the first gulf war.

Than you look at MA DUCE, the ever present, ever potent M2 Browning 50 caliber, that is starting to get close to it's 100 year birthday, and is still widely issued, and will be around for many years to come.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 03:52 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. Ma Deuce and the C-130....
Two things for which the only replacement is... another Ma Deuce or C-130!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 05:48 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. Don't forget the Henry 1860
Sure, I think only 10,000 or so of them were used in the Civil War, and their fast action made them prone to jamming, but put out such a volume of fire that the Confederates referred to them as "that damn Yankee rifle they load on Sunday and shoot all week."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BigBluenoser Donating Member (289 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #19
34. Ruskies used a lever in WWI...


Winchester 1895
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Ya znayu
But by then the water-cooled Maxim machine gun had been invented and the volume of fire put out by troops armed with lever-action rifles didn't count for very much any more.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 03:48 AM
Response to Original message
17. I should show the author my .45-70 Government.
I'll show a puny fucking .30-30 what for
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fleet Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #17
35. I've shot a Marlin .45-70 before
Twice, one shot then another... Unless I'm hunting elephant or the Terminator I'll probably pass on another chance.

The thing is a fucking beast.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
20. Slightly more powerful than an AK-47, and will shoot through Kevlar like Saran Wrap.
Doesn't make it a "cop killer" though, any more than any other rifles are. I do know of a couple of cases off the top of my head of .30-30's being used to murder police officers, and the Florida tourist murders in the '90s involved a .30-30, but the truth is that all rifles combined account for only ~0.6% of violent crimes, 3% of murders, and a very small percentage of police-officer deaths. Rifles just aren't concealable enough to be convenient.



Murder, by State and Type of Weapon:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/data/table_20.html

Robbery, by State and Type of Weapon:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/data/table_21.html

Aggravated Assault, by State and Type of Weapon
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/data/table_22.html

Police-officer murders:

2006: 46 gun-related murders (35 handgun, 8 rifle, 2 shotgun, 1 unknown type)

2007: 55 gun-related murders (38 handgun, 8 rifle, 9 shotgun, 0 unknown type)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mercracer Donating Member (72 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. Saran Wrap
Really.... No poop... Well, it is a good thing that the manufacturers have a rating system....
Level III and better will certainly stop a .30-30. The lower ratings are meant for slugs and handgun rounds. This statistic is pretty common knowledge in firearms circles but is often used as propaganda to shock those opposed to firearm ownership.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. Level III is hard nonconcealable armor like SWAT teams wear (III or IV)
and generally not Kevlar. All concealable armor I am aware of is IIIA or lower.

You're entirely correct about how the MSM and gun-ban lobby talk up "kevlar piercing" as if it's not something that any centerfire rifle will do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hangingon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #20
29. Considering the round was developed in 1985, it is
Edited on Mon Aug-10-09 10:51 AM by Hangingon
not surprising it has accounted for the death of some law enforcement officers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. Or 1895
But we know what you meant
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hangingon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Thanks for the catch. I'm not know for keyboarding skills.
I take a lot of grief from friends because I show up with a .30-30. It is a good round for wild hogs and will work for deer here in brush country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Israfel4 Donating Member (86 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
32. One of my good friends has a Marlin
336C 30-30 loaded with Hornady's LeveRevolution ammo for hog blasting as well as for HD(Home Defense).

I know I wouldn't want to be hit with one of those Hornady rounds!!!!

.30 caliber bullet is still technically a .308???? Right???? Until you get to .338 and up???

What about the .30 Carbine for the M1 Carbine???
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
39. "Cop killer" label may have derived from Ted Kennedy's demonization...
of the rifle years ago.

http://www.sportsmenforkerry.com/ammo.htm

People hear this crap and latch onto it for all it's worth. And it ain't worth much.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Oct 23rd 2014, 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC