Should grenades be legal?

[dorkulon]

Just thinking. 2nd amendment doesn't specify which "arms", but grenades are arms, are they not? Not trying to be flamebait, just want to fully understand what pro-gun folks think are the limits of the 2nd amendment. Surely one could kill as many or more with an AR-15 than with a grenade. So why does the 2nd cover guns but not explosives, legally speaking?

For the record, I would prefer the U.S. had a European-style policy to guns, but I also realize that's not really possible politically of logistically.

[billyoc]

1. You mean they aren't?

[madeline_con]

2. Maybe grenades weren't all that reliable back in the day

when the 2nd was written.

[Hoopla Phil]

7. Actually they were. The mortars were also privately owned back

"when the 2nd was written".

[AtheistCrusader]

3. You know the 'you can't yell 'FIRE' in a theatre' exception to the 1st?

We have long ago assented to 'exceptions' to the 2nd, such as strict regulation of grenades, RPG's and other weapons as 'destructive devices'. Same for Machine Guns, with the 1934 National Firearms Act, which might otherwise seem to fly in the face of the 2nd Amendment.

[Hoopla Phil]

4. News flash. They ARE legal.

Just fill out your paperwork and send in your tax money.

[AtheistCrusader]

6. Not in all states

but I think 'heavily restricted' would be more appropriate than 'illegal' to be sure.

[Hoopla Phil]

8. Oops. You are correct.

[onehandle]

5. I want my nuke.

My neighbor worries me. I want the best "arms" to protect my family.

[dairydog91]

25. Might I suggest something more modest? A T-72 tank perhaps?

If you want to protect your family, you should avoid any device that would increase their body temperature to 1000000 degrees.

http://www.tanksforsale.co.uk/T72_tanks_for_sale_page.htm">Link: Tanks For Sale!

[onehandle]

26. Puh! Taking chances is for wimps. I want a 100% Guaranteed Kill! nt

[SteveM]

29. Oh, better shop now! I hear there is a run-up on bombs...

Gosh, which Jones are you keeping up with?

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

9. Grenades (and launchers) are legal and subject to the NFA of 1934. (n/t)

[Euromutt]

10. Explosives are indiscriminate

You can't direct a grenade to hurt persons A & B within the blast radius, but not person C. Guns, by contrast, are "point target" weapons: they hit what they're aimed at, and don't inflict damage in a 15' radius around the target.

[slackmaster]

11. They are legal

They're heavily regulated.

[zbdent]

12. If you outlaw grenades, only outlaws will have grenades ...

[DBoon]

13. "never bring a gun to a grenade fight"

or

"grenades - when seconds matter and the Marines arrive in minutes"

[zbdent]

14. "Grenades ... when close is close enough"

[bossy22]

15. the limits are at personel operated weapons

that are of the non-explosive type. These are weapons that are good for defense of self and others

there are limits to weapons that people should be allowed to own, even "pro-gun" people acknowledge that. The issue with grenades are, there isnt any reason to keep them easily available while there are plenty of reasons to keep them heavily regulated. Guns have many uses, they are for protection, hunting, sport, animal control...grenades are only really useful in a major combat situation.

[dorkulon]

20. How does that square with "well-regulated militia"?

A militia ought to have explosives, I'd think.

[benEzra]

23. D.C. v. Heller addressed that. (n/t)

[bossy22]

27. the "well regulated militia"

concept of the second amendment is totally different from the modern concept...well regulated was meant to be well equiped with militia type weapons, which were primarily muskets and other derivatives....explosives were possessions of the US army, along with cavalry and most artillery

and to be honest, we live in the 21st century, and the second amendment has a new emphasized meaning- a right to personal defense...and frankly grenades are not useful for that purpose....but a handgun sure is

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

16. Since grenades are LEGAL to own, I wonder if self defense with one is allowed?

Let's say you legally owned a few grenades - all you're paperwork was in order.
And there was an armed burgler who happened to break in while you were cleaning your grenades.

Would self defense with a grenade be legal in a situation where a firearm is allowed?
How about silencers?
How about machineguns?

[benEzra]

22. Sound suppressors are indeed legal for defensive purposes in your home...

and I know a few people who have a sound suppressed home-defense carbine. Contrary to Hollywood, a sound suppressor does not "silence" a typical centerfire firearm, merely reduces the sound level by 20 or 30 dB (to 120-130 dB instead of 150-160 dB), still plenty darn loud. You do have to jump through a lot of regulatory hoops to legally own one, as they are as tightly controlled as howitzers, but if you have a squeaky clean record and a lot of patience, you can get Federal authorization (BATFE Form 4) to possess one.

Self-defense with a lawfully owned machinegun would be justifiable if use of a non-machinegun was justifiable under the same circumstance, but given that civilian-transferable machineguns cost ten times as much as non-machineguns, are more tightly regulated than bombs, and will allow lots of prosecutorial grandstanding, I would not choose a selective-fire weapon as my HD firearm even if I owned one. One or two have been used defensively over the years, but anyone who can afford to own such an expensive collector's item can afford to own other guns for HD.

Self-defense with grenades? Probably not. It's not that you can't get Federal authorization to legally own them---you can---and it's not that self-defense statutes outlaw particular defensive tools (they don't). If you could legally shoot someone who was attacking you, you could legally grenade them, I suppose. The problem is, if you are far enough from your attacker(s) to use a grenade without killing yourself, you are probably far enough from them that the homicide would not be ruled justifiable.

[dairydog91]

24. "Defending your home with a grenade" is its own punishment.

Provided that you aren't immediately killed by the fragments, which usually are lethal up to 15 meters away, the concussion of the explosion would probably still blow your eardrums, gel your eyeballs, and violently (Probably lethally) rattle your brain. Not to mention, you might very well set your house on fire. It might be "legal" to use a lawfully registered grenade to defend your home, but why would you do so?

As for silencers, they make a gun longer and bulkier, making it easier to grab and more awkward to use. However, it might make sense to use one.

[Endangered Specie]

32. Legal or not, it will ultimately be determined by a jury of 12... I wouldn't want

the prosecutor to hold up *any* of those weapons in a court of law in front of 12 ordinary people.

[benEzra]

17. Grenades are indiscriminate. Non-automatic rifles (including AR-15's) are not.

AR-15's are legal in much of Europe, BTW. Most of Europe is more like Canada with regard to gun laws, rather than like the United Kingdom or Australia, although a lot of Americans do not seem to realize that.

[virginia mountainman]

18. Yes, and it is legal to own, along with heavy artillery...videos included...

A WWII era 90 MM Anti Tank gun...In action...Privately owned...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s6_vufc1ns&feature=PlayList&p=3A452DA33FC11136&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=14

Privately owned, WWII 75MM Howitzer..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoMbtXMXOIw

In our history, there have been MANY privately, owned, warships, with civilian crews, and civilian owned, and crewed weaponry...

Our Great Navel hero, John Paul Jones, was one of these indaviduals....

During WWII, the Goodyear Blimp, was issued a "Letter of Marque" and outfitted with guns, and it patrolled the coast line for enemy subs...Yes, with it civilian crew..

[Pullo]

19. Is a grenade a firearm?

[dorkulon]

21. Doesn't say "right to bear firearms." nt

[Merchant Marine]

28. Arms

generally is construed to mean personal or sidearms, including smallarms, pistols, swords and knives. Grenades aren't terribly useful in the home anyway.

[SteveM]

30. I hope you are well-edumacated on the subject, now...

Did you know that the actor (Dorn, I believe) who played Worf on "Star Trek: The Next Generation" owns an early 1950s Saber jet? This icon of the Korean War is completely legal to own.

Since this question comes up a lot (and is dealt with thoroughly), I can only ask: Where is the problem? Seen many tanks rattling around the 'hood? Howitzers pummeling the hillside? Nukes dropped over Nebraska? Sabers strafing football stadia?

[Endangered Specie]

31. I think the status quo ("very heavily regulated") is just fine...

It is not possible to just go into a gun store and buy a box of nades, and it never should be.

However if you are willing to cut through 6 months of red tape, taxes, and storage/hazmat requirements, you ought to be able to own one, about the only people who will ever go through all of this to own one legally are collectors.

Keep in mind, the tax is $200 a grenade, they are about as restricted as machine guns.