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tucsonlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 09:21 PM
Original message
Time To Renounce The NRA?
Even the most ardent gun-rights advocate should be outraged by this. A few million shredded membership cards mailed to their corporate headquarters might get their attention....

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/11/24/gun-show/
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. Let them freak and repeat the lies. It keeps them busy. eom
Edited on Wed Nov-26-08 09:23 PM by madeline_con
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muntrv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
2. Draft NRA members into the war on terra if they love their guns so much.
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northofdenali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. Why can't we change it, instead?
There are enough of us gun-owning, hunting progressive liberals who (like me) are members (only because a membership was given to me by my dad years ago) - so why don't we try and effect change from within? Granted, I pay little or no attention to the organization unless I'm checking out a new shotgun and want info. I know their regressive (and mostly stupid) policies - but didn't the NRA start out as an educational/training organization?

Maybe I'm being naive, and I can't shred my renewal card (dad joined me for a lifetime thing). I don't carry a member card (usually, unless it's to a political "thing" and it's usually right next to my ACLU membership card). If this idea takes off, though, a few of us "lifers" could really shock 'em!
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HillWilliam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. I've done my part
to be a thorn in their arse. When I get one of their screaming emails, I write them back, point for point and let them know that this gun owner was going to vote Democratic anyway. You have to start somewhere. But it's not as if we center-to-lefties have had much (if any) effect on them (yet).

If, as the poster below implies (and I'm about to go follow the link and check it out) there is an alternative, I may be changing affiliations -- or just leaving altogether. The range I belong to stopped giving discounts for NRA members, so there's no real reason left to stay in the NRA. I'm not giving up the range in any case; there isn't an alternative in the area. (When they gotcha by the curlies, the heart and mind will soon follow...)
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tucsonlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Excellent!! n/t
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
4. They're being total douchebags.
But hopefully they'll get over it in a year or so when Obama declares a tax holiday for ammunition on the day before deer hunting season.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. New Pro-Gun Group Hopes to Draw From the NRA
The National Rifle Association always seems to have a target painted on its back. As one of Washington's most powerful and controversial interest groups, it is constantly dodging potshots from one group or another.

Enter another group.

The American Hunters and Shooters Association is the latest organization to try to dethrone the NRA as chief spokesman for people who care about guns. The association positions itself as an NRA alternative, a group that likes guns and those who shoot them but believes the NRA is too absolutist, especially when it comes to opposing almost any curb on the right to bear arms.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/17/AR2008031702579_pf.html
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. As soon as they become a pro-gun group, they will have a chance at doing that.
Edited on Wed Nov-26-08 10:10 PM by benEzra
They are still moving in that direction, but are still dealing with some baggage from some of their founders (a couple of which were gun-control activists and initially steered the group in a very pro-bans direction).
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. That was my impression too.
But I was not able to find an NRA alternative other than this one.

This kind of reminds me of how the AARP sold their souls to break into the Part D insurance business, but regardlessly still enjoy many peoples' naive confidence as an unbiased seniors' advocate.
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. Does anyone know
if the Gun Owners of America(GOA) is a decent group?
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-08 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. I hit their website.
They look as bad as the NRA, or worse.
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-08 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #20
31. The NRA is pretty centrist compared to GOA.
The NRA supports background checks, is OK with requiring a license in order to carry a concealed firearm, is OK with the 1934 restrictions on automatic weapons, helped write the 1986 armor-piercing ammo ban and the ban on X-ray-transparent firearms, etc. GOA opposes all of the above.

The media caricature of the NRA as opposing all gun restrictions would actually apply fairly accurately to GOA.
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. The AHSA is nothing but a Brady front organization.....n/t
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
6. The NRA exaggerates, but there are kernals of truth to their claims -


I'm much more interested in getting Obama to renounce federal gun bans and some of the more stupid federal gun laws.



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tucsonlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. So, Keep Your Membership Card Then.......
You say they "exaggerate". I say they are engaging in hate-speech. It is insulting to me that the NRA apparently thinks that all gun owners worship Rush Limbaugh and only believe what they hear on Fox News.

"I'm much more interested in getting Obama to renounce federal gun bans and some of the more stupid federal gun laws."

Much more interested than in what, exactly?



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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-08 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #11
22. Obama, if he were consistent with his stated view of the 2nd amendment
Edited on Thu Nov-27-08 09:11 AM by aikoaiko
could easily say that Federal gun bans are unconstitutional (especially bans of commonly used and own guns) and he'll veto them if they come to his desk. There was a window of opporunity for to take this stance just after the Heller decision (which he says he agrees with).

I'd also like him to renouce the laws preventing the importation of semi-automatic rifles and carbines or their parts. As I understand it, these guns and gun parts cannot be imported because they have been judged (I forget if its the AG's office or the BATFE) to have no sporting purpose. Well their sporting purpose seems to be irrelevant to the my 2nd Amendment right for self-defense. Furthermore, the very same guns would be legal to sell and own if they were made within the USA. Clearly this is a stupid Federal gun law.
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username_5 Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
7. reply
Prior to the election I was getting 1 or 2 mailings from the NRA against Obama per day. I voted for Obama and thought the NRA fear mongering was pathetic.

Having said that Obama wasn't born yesterday and he does have a public position on gun rights. To put it plainly, he is anti-gun. He has supported groups who would completely ban all guns, supports the ban on scary looking hunting rifles (aka assault weapon ban) and the list goes on.

Perhaps a lot of this was due to being a Chicago politician and he won't carry this onto the national stage.

Again, I voted for him because I vote on more than one issue, but I don't see any reason to view Obama as a 2nd amendment supporter. It was the gun issue that actually had me hesitate to vote for him and it was the gun issue that had my 2 best friends who hated Bush vote for McCain as they are both hunters and gun enthusiasts.

I wish the democratic party would jettison their anti gun constituency once and for all just like I wish the republican party would jettison their religious nutjob constituency.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-08 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #7
25. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
pipoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
14. The best way to beat them
is if Obama leaves the gun issue alone. Even better if he would renounce federal gun control, but in fact he is already advocating it. So it appears that the NRA may be proven (at least partially) right if he follows through with his current promise to try to enact a new AWB.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
15. now just where do you think you are??

You haven't been keeping up.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=191339&mesg_id=191339

just for instance.

The NRA is right. Dincha know?

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tucsonlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Re: now just where do you think you are??
I thought I wasn't in Kansas anymore, Toto.
I was wrong......
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
17. Until someone proves otherwise, I seen no reason to accept ThinkProgress as a credible source for
any anti-gun statements. :puke:
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tucsonlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-08 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #17
34. When You Can't Dispute The Validity Of The Message...
..attack the character of the messenger.
Hmmmm...Where have I seen that tactic used before?......
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-08 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. Apparently ThinkProgress is associated with the Center for American Progress and is anti-gun.
It is suspect just as is FactCheck.org an arm of the Annenberg Foundation.

Annenberg helps fund the Brady Campaign.

There are several anti-gun groups spreading pure lies blended with a modicum of truth masquerading as independent, objective purveyors of gun-propaganda.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-08 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. you keep trying, jody
Edited on Fri Nov-28-08 08:53 AM by iverglas

http://thinkprogress.org/about/

"ThinkProgress was voted “Best Liberal Blog” in the 2006 Weblog Awards."

Someday, you'll find an organization left of, oh, Ted Nugent that you can cite to back up *your* views.


I think jody's just jealous ...

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-08 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-08 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. hey, Dave

Name one.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Iverglas
Edited on Sun Nov-30-08 09:14 PM by Fire_Medic_Dave
Name one what?
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
18. What's stopping you?
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OffWithTheirHeads Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
19. Don' t like the NRA? Best thing you can do is join.
Edited on Wed Nov-26-08 11:26 PM by tmfun
About 20 years ago, I sent a donation of $20.00 to Greenpeace. In the following year, they sent me stacks of mail asking for additional contributions. The way I figured it, they probably spent several hundred dollars asking me for more money. I never sent them another dime.

A few years ago, I joined the NRA. Same thing. It takes lots of money to develop a request for additional funds, have it printed up on glossy paper, stuffed into envelopes with postage affixed and to have some poor fool schlep it to the Post Office. I figure it has to cost something in the neighborhood of $10.00 a pop, start to finish, to actually get one of these requests to my house. Since the NRA seems to send out about one request for additional funds per month, I figure my $35.00 annual contribution costs them a minimum of $200.00 a year.

I just opened up my latest missive from the NRA. A request to renew my membership. 4 pages, A couple of decals, a self addressed envelope. $10.00 minimum.

So, If you hate the NRA, bankrupt them by joining.

Personally, although I hate their politics, I am gad that there is an organization spending money to defend our right to bear arms. I also contribute to the ACLU because I like the rest of our constitution defended. I, like an earlier poster, keep my NRA card right next to my ACLU card. Can't work too hard to defend ALL of our rights.

Also, like an earlier poster, I think that we can change the NRA from within. I have learned how few folks actually get involved in the politics around them and I guarantee that it would not take very many of us, actively involved to turn the NRA into a Democratic asset.

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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-08 04:50 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Wisdom spoken - it would not take very many of us to turn the NRA into a Democratic asset. n/t
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-08 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
24. You can change the NRA from within by becoming a voting member
It takes five years of annual dues IIRC, or just buy a lifetime membership.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-08 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-08 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
26. Waiting for Biden's response nt
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-08 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
28. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Hangingon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-08 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
29. The Holder nomination has only confirmed the NRA position.
We need the NRA now more than ever.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-08 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #29
39. It's beginning to look like that given Obama's support for AWB. n/t
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gorfle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-08 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
30. Let's look at what the NRA is saying about Obama.
I think most of the NRA's claims are substantially correct.

Read: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/nra_targets_obama.html

It's clear that most of the points are in fact true, and Obama/Fact Check is merely mincing words to try and say they aren't true.

Let's look at some of what Fact Check has to say:

NRA Claim: "Ban use of Firearms for Home Self-Defense"

False: Obama is proposing no such ban.

The NRA bases this overheated claim on a vote Obama cast on March 24, 2004, in the Illinois state Senate. He was one of 20 who opposed SB 2165. That bill, which passed 38 - 20 and became law, did not make it a crime to use firearms for self-defense, however. Rather, it created a loophole for persons caught violating local gun registration laws.

It states that in any Illinois municipality where a gun ban is in effect, it shall be an "affirmative defense" if the person accused of violating the ban can show that the weapon was used "in an act of self-defense or defense of another ... when on his or her land or in his or her abode or fixed place of business."

Letting the owner of a banned firearm escape a municipality's penalty is one thing, but it's another thing entirely to make it a crime to use any firearm – registered or not – in self-defense. The bill came about after Hale DeMar, of Wilmette, Ill., shot a burglar who had invaded his home. At the time, Wilmette had an ordinance that prohibited owning handguns.


So, Obama has voted against legislation that would provide immunity to someone who uses a firearm for self-defense in a place where firearms were banned.

OK, so it's not a "Ban (on the) use of Firearms for Home Self-Defense" - it's just a slap in the face to people who would use them for such purpose. By providing no support for protection for people who use firearms for self-defense where it's illegal, he sends the clear message that they ought to be illegal.

It's clear where Obama's sentiments lie in this instance.

NRA Claim: "Ban Rifle Ammunition Commonly Used for Hunting and Sport Shooting"

False: Obama is not proposing to ban hunting ammunition. And he did not, as claimed in an NRA TV spot featuring a Virginia hunter named Karl Rusch, vote to "ban virtually all deer hunting ammunition." What Obama voted for was a measure to ban "armor-piercing" ammunition, which the measure's sponsor has said repeatedly would not cover hunting ammunition.

This claim is based on Obama's vote on S. 397 in the U.S. Senate. Obama was one of 31 senators who voted in favor of S. Amdt. 1615 to S. 397 which sought to "expand the definition of armor piercing ammunition."

However, the measure's sponsor, Sen. Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts, said his amendment was not intended to cover hunting ammunition:

Sen. Kennedy (July 29, 2005): This is not about hunting. We know duck and geese and deer do not wear armor vests; police officers do.


The simple fact is that just about any ammunition fired through a rifle will defeat body armor designed to defend against pistols. The law may not be intended to impact hunting ammunition, but you can bet that it will be used by the gun-grabbers to cut as large a swath in available ammunition as possible. For example, what about pistol ammunition that is usable in carbines? Does the fact that it can be used in a pistol mean that I can't use it in a rifle anymore?

I'm skeptical of any ammunition ban and I'm quite certain that the NRA is correct - you ban any specific type of ammunition and it will probably affect hunting and sporting people.

NRA Claim: "Ban the Manufacture, Sale and Possession of Handguns"

False: Obama says he does not support any such handgun ban and never has. He supports "reasonable restrictions on the sale and possession of handguns" (not manufacture) and has said a ban is not "politically practicable."

The NRA bases its claim on a disputed 1996 questionnaire that Obama's Illinois state Senate campaign filled out for the nonprofit voting group, Independent Voters of Illinois-Independent Precinct Organization. On it, somebody filled in the word "yes" in response to the question, "Do you support legislation to ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns?" But the Obama campaign said that the survey was actually filled out by his then-campaign manager who "unintentionally mischaracterized his position," adding that Obama never saw the survey.


Riiiiiiight. Obama didn't fill out the questionnaire, someone else did. In any case, here's what Obama said later:

Obama, 2003: While a complete ban on handguns is not politically practicable, I believe reasonable restrictions on the sale and possession of handguns are necessary to protect the public safety. In the Illinois Senate last year, I supported a package of bills to limit individual Illinoisans to purchasing one handgun a month; require all promoters and sellers at firearms shows to carry a state license; allow civil liability for death or injuries caused by handguns; and require FOID applicants to apply in person. I would support similar efforts at the federal level, including retaining the Brady Law."

Note that he doesn't say that a complete ban on handguns is not acceptable, he just says it "is not politically practicable". This tells me as soon as he finds it "politically practicable" he'll be all over it.

NRA Claim: "Mandate a Government-Issued License to Purchase a Firearm"

Misleading: Obama indeed has spoken in favor of licensing handguns, but so far as we can determine he hasn't called for registration of hunting weapons. And he's said a national gun registration law isn't politically possible: "I just don't think we can get that done."


Note he doesn't say that he thinks a national gun registration law is unacceptable, he again says it "isn't politically possible. You can thus bet that Obama's registration schemes will be as broad as he thinks will be "politically possible".

NRA Claim: "Pass Federal Laws Eliminating Your Right-to-Carry"

True: In 2004, while running for the Democratic nomination for the Senate seat he now holds, Obama indeed called for "national legislation" to prevent anyone but law enforcers from carrying concealed firearms.


That one speaks for itself.

NRA Claim: "Expand the Clinton Semi-Auto Weapons Ban to Include Millions More Firearms"

Partly true: The NRA refers here to the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, which was put in place during former President Bill Clinton's administration. Title XI of the legislation spoke directly to regulations on assault weapons. The law outlawed the semi-automatic versions of 19 kinds of military-style assault weapons, but it expired in 2004.


So Obama supports the AWB. You can be certain that when it is brought to the table again they will try to make sure that the law cannot be simply complied with by simple cosmetic changes like last time.

NRA Claim: "Appoint Judges to the U.S. Supreme Court and Federal Judiciary Who Share His Views on the Second Amendment"

In any case, Obama says he believes the Second Amendment "creates an individual right" to bear arms. That's at odds with some strong gun-control advocates who had argued that the Second Amendment limited the right to bear arms to a "well-regulated militia." The Supreme Court rejected that view in its June ruling overturning the D.C. gun ban. But Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia wrote, "Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose." Chief Justice John Roberts joined that opinion. To the dismay of gun-control advocates, Obama did not criticize the ruling. Instead, he said it "will provide much-needed guidance to local jurisdictions across the country."


Not exactly a ringing endorsement of the Heller decision.

NRA Claim: "Increase Federal Taxes on Guns and Ammunition by 500 Percent"

Uncertain: This claim is based on an article that appeared in the Chicago Defender on Dec. 13, 1999, when Obama was in the Illinois state Senate. According to the Defender, at an anti-gun rally, Obama "outlined his anti-gun plan," which, among other things, sought to "increase the federal taxes by 500 percent on the sale of firearm, ammunition -- weapons he says are most commonly used in firearm deaths." As a U.S. senator, however, Obama has not pushed for any such tax on ammunition.

We asked the Obama campaign about his position on an ammunition tax but have received no response.


Is no news good news? Time will tell.

NRA Claim: "Close Down 90 Percent of Gun Shops in America"

Uncertain: This claim also is based on the1999 Defender article. It reported Obama was pushing "all federally licensed gun dealers sell firearms in a storefront and not from their homes while banning their business from being within five miles of a school or a park." The NRA states that the 5-mile limit would have resulted in the closing of 90 percent of gun shops in the country. But as a U.S. senator Obama hasn't pushed for a 5-mile limit and isn't proposing one as part of his presidential campaign.

We asked the Obama campaign about his current position on imposing a five-mile limit on gun shops but have received no response.


No response again. I'm pretty certain that we are going to see another push against FFL holders, in an attempt to get rid of "kitchen table vendors". I wanted to become a "kitchen table" vendor, so I could get the FFL license, just so that I could purchase firearms through the mail without having to pay someone to accept the package for me. But nooooooo - you aren't allowed to get an FFL just for personal firearm purchases. Why not?

NRA Claim: "Restore Voting Rights for Five Million Criminals Including Those Who Have been Convicted of Using a Gun to Commit a Violent Crime"

Mostly true: We could find no NRA citation to back up this statement. We note, however, that Obama was a cosponsor of the Count Every Vote Act of 2007. The section of the legislation, "Sec. 701. Voting Rights of Individuals Convicted of Criminal Offenses," states that the purpose of Title VII of the legislation was "to restore fairness in the Federal election process by ensuring that ex-offenders who have fully served their sentences are not denied the right to vote." There has been no action on the bill since March 2007 when it was referred to the Senate Committee on Rules and Administration.

Currently, the Sentencing Project estimates that 5.3 million Americans are denied the right to vote because of state laws denying the right to people with felony convictions. It further estimates that this bars 13 percent of African-American men from voting. Most of those ex-offenders were not, however, convicted of gun violence. "There is absolutely no way of getting to that," said Marc Mauer, executive director of the Sentencing Project. "All we can say is that the majority of felony charges are not for violent crimes and guns."


So Obama was a cosponsor of legislation to restore voting rights to ex-felons, and though the majority of felony charges are not for violent crimes and guns, no doubt some are, and consequently they would, as the NRA claims, have their voting rights restored.







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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-08 07:03 AM
Response to Reply #30
36. Thanks. This is the post I wanted to write, but didn't have time.

One more thing about the home defense issue: Not only did the law pass, but there was enough support to override a veto. Its a small demonstration of how far Obama is willing to take his anti-gun stance. Hopefully, he has permanently moved away from such positions.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the NRA exaggerates many of its claims against, but there are kernals of truth that are troublesome.






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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-08 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
32. deleted!
Edited on Thu Nov-27-08 03:20 PM by iverglas

Went to the wrong window, didn't I.

Never mind!
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-27-08 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. x 2
Edited on Thu Nov-27-08 03:21 PM by iverglas
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JonQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-08 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
38. So an organization founded to protect and promote the 2nd amendment
is concerned that we have a president who is not friendly to guns, and we should be pissed off?

What if the ACLU ran a campaign detailing civil rights abuses by bush, should we get pissed and renounce them as well?

It seems the NRA is doing their jobs. Obama is not a friend of gun owners, and picking biden and holder only reinforces that.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-08 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
40. Sorry, think I'll stick with draft cards...
I don't belong to the NRA because they have become too closely aligned with the GOP. A more appropriate strategy is to work toward these goals:
(1) Elimination of the "assault weapons ban" platform plank in the Democratic Party;
(2) Elimination of the federal or "national" approach to gun control (if localities won't to try it, then let them face the courts);
(3) Encourage and promote pro-Second Amendment rights organizations within the Democratic Party (See: Blue Steel Democrats); and
(4) Quit taking advice from the GOP-founded, GOP-led Brady Campaign. I don't won't a Republican group in the Democratic pilot house.
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