McCain: "I favor the closing of the gun-show loophole."

[SteveM]

Republican presidential candidate John McCain expressed his wish to close the so-called "gun-show loophole" in the October, 2008 edition of Field & Stream magazine. In an interview with F&S Editor Anthony Licata, McCain was asked:

"You're well known for giving frank answers to questions that may cause some supporters to question you. So with that tradition in mind, what do you feel is the issue that's going to cause the most friction between you and sportsmen?"

McCain's answer:

" Probably I favor the closing of the gun-show loophole. In other words, when it's a small transaction. I do not support restrictions on family exchanges. But I think that gun shows are marvelous, and we now have the capability for instant background checks. That person that perpetrated the tragedy at Blacksburg should never have had access to a weapon because of his history.

"But I have favored the closing of the gun-show loophole. That's probably one of the -- but I'm a strong supporter of gun shows, strong supporter of the Second Amendment, strong record in that area. So that probably may be one of those things. But I'm very proud of my record."

www.fieldandstream.com

[lib2DaBone]

1. Their Plan ...Bring a Brigade of Marines in to patrol the streets of America...

.. then close all gunshows and gun shops. The Surge is working.. only its in AMERICA.

[AndyTiedye]

2. Since the NRA Has Been Silent On This

I think we can take it as a given that the R in NRA stands for Republican.

[tburnsten]

4. I think they are too preoccupied with our candidate

Generally the NRA is non-political, the NRA-ILA is the political group, and they tend to base their support or lack of for a candidate based on his past voting record and statements in regards to firearms issues. Unfortunately Barack Obama has a very poor record when it comes to firearms, and I wish he would take a stronger stand against any further intervention. Our current laws are fine, except the whole concurrent sentencing bit for regular criminals which means that only otherwise non-criminals caught in some statutory firearms violation end up serving time for their infraction, whereas a known drug dealer and felon caught with a firearm will almost always have those charges dropped or be able to serve them concurrently with whatever else they are being convicted of, meaning they effectively have no penalty for using a gun in commission of a crime.

[tburnsten]

3. At least his position on it is fairly rational

Now try to get him to make a logical statement on another issue.


And I disagree, how can it be acceptable to intervene in face to face private transactions in one geographical location but not another?

[davepc]

5. When does the Gun Guys web site start praising McCain?

[iiibbb]

6. "Gun show loophole"... another one of the great misnomers...

...not that I care if someone were to ban private-party sales from gunshows. However, if anyone thinks that it would have a meaningful effect on crime they're kidding themselves.

Most of the guns sold by way of the loophole are pretty innocuous... crappy lever actions, shotguns etc.

I've almost never seen anyone selling something I would call nice or desirable.



And it's a misnomer because there's nothing keeping these people from selling a gun through the classifieds, internet, etc.

[old mark]

15. The FBI report on gun violence fro, the late 1990's

says guns bought at gun shows are used in a very small number of crimes, an insignificant number. They usually buy stolen guns off the street or steal them from friends or family members who bought them legally.

These guys are not going to buy anyghing legally when they can steal it or get it cheap in some bar.

The "gun Show Loophole" is another anti gun myth and has no basis in reality.

I'm glad McCain said he supports ending it - it may cost him a few votes if the word gets around.

mark

[aikoaiko]

7. Since Obama is still vaguely supporting the AWB -- McCain can get away with lesser gun control

Also from the interview:

LICATA: Let's talk about guns for a minute. Do you think the Second Amendment confers an individual right? SENATOR MCCAIN: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I have a 24-year record of fighting for those.

LICATA: Would you support legislation aimed at banning so-called "assault rifles"?
SENATOR MCCAIN: No.

LICATA: How about high-capacity magazines?
SENATOR MCCAIN: No. Because we quickly get into an academic discussion--what's high-capacity? What's a banana clip?

This gunshow loophole idiocy will grate on gun owners, but until Obama says no new federal gun bans McCain wins on guns.

I don't think Obama has explicitly said he'll sign a reauthorization of the AWB, but he keeps the door open. And then there is the Democratic platform's stance on the AWB (as well as the so called gun show loophole).

[JoeyMac]

10. Actually...

Obama has not said said, "I will reinstate the AWB" with his mouth in front of a camera. He's too smart for that.
However his voting record and website show what he (and especially Joe Biden) would endorse an AWB.

Quoted from barack's website:

As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals who shouldn't have them. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets.

It's stupid... really. Why is the magic number 10 the limit on magazines. Mags can be changed in seconds. This will not limit the number of victims in a shooting spree, even if a violent criminal (for some reason) decides to obey the magazine restriction law. I think a 30 round mag limit is more reasonable as that is the standard for industry, LEO, civilian and military - any larger tan that and you have to get special magazines/adapters. And banning evil "assault rifles"? There are so few crimes committed with any type of rifle, let alone an assault rile, that legislation against them is a waste of time. It's a ban against cosmetic features on intermediate caliber rifles that are really not all that powerful - borderline insufficient, actually.

The ONLY common sense regulation would be to open up the NICS checks to civilians access and require civilians to fill out a federal transfer form to be submitted to the ATF after a private non-dealer transaction is made. Maybe even a small fee to cover the administrative effort undertaken to process the transfer. This will close the nonexistent "gun show loophole" by providing a background check in private sales and having a record of the firearm's transfer.

[jody]

12. Sound bite "banning so-called 'assault rifles'? SENATOR MCCAIN: No. " I wish Obama would pledge to

ban any bill that infringes upon RKBA and specifically say "NO to AWB".

His failure to do that simple task leaves him vulnerable on the Second amendment.

[Chevy05truck]

21. Obama has a terrible gun record.

Why the hell Democrats cant' choose a centrist candidate that doesnt' alienate gun owning "middle of the roaders" is beyond me.

[isaacsgs]

8. RE: Gun-Show Loophole

At least I agree with McCain on this: someone that cannot buy at a gun store should not be allowed to buy at a gun show.

[ManiacJoe]

14. It already works that way.

The existing law has nothing to do with geography. It is all about the seller.

If you are buying from a dealer, all the checks and paperwork need to be completed. Where the dealer is selling from(store vs gun show vs parking lot) makes no difference.

If you are buying from a private seller, the same restrictions on the buyer exist as they did with the dealer, just no requirement on which checks the seller does and no requirement on paperwork. Where the seller is selling from (house vs gun show vs parking lot) makes no difference.

There is no "gun show loophole". What exists is a purposeful distinction between (1) the paperwork and required checks by the dealers (lots of both) and (2) the paperwork and required checks by the private seller (none for both). Both the dealer and private seller are restricted in who they can sell to; but the dealer is required to use the NICS check as one of his checks on the buyer.

The worst part is the the NICS check that is required for the dealer is currently prohibited for the private seller. The NRA and other gun groups are working to get that changed.

[slackmaster]

9. LOL

Wut?

[krispos42]

11. Does he also supporting banning the importation of unicorns?

How about increasing governmental oversight of the magic fairy dust industry? What is his opinion on the immigration and naturalization of centaurs and satyrs?

Those items are just as real as the so-called "gun show loophole".

[jody]

13. The gun-show loophole is a cover for a scheme to ban all private sales just as "assault weapon" is

a cover for a scheme to ban all sales of semiautomatic firearms.

If a candidate supports closing the gun-show loophole and reinstating AWB that really means she/he supports banning private sales and banning semiautomatic firearms.

The Annenberg Foundation funds the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence and the Joyce Foundation funds the Violence Policy Center.

Obama was a director of one of the Annenberg Foundations projects and simultaneously a director of the Joyce Foundation.

If Obama was doing his job as director, he knew about the two foundations goals to close the gun-show loophole and ban semiautomatic firearms as well as banning handguns.

The Annenberg Foundation operates FactCheck. :shrug:

[Lost River Ledger]

16. Love Affair with guns.......

I don’t have a love affair with guns, though I know some who do. I come from a long line of hunters/sportsmen/marksmen who actually know/knew how to handle fire arms and would prefer that the uninitiated keep away from owning and or using them, but have never understood the rational for automatic fire arms in the hands of private citizens.

If it as part of a “well organized militia”, so be it, but let’s use the Swiss model of compulsory military service to become well trained and deemed mentally competent in and for their use, then keep them under lock and key(and monitored) until annual “guard service” or eminent threat.

As for hunters/sportsmen, I’m at a complete loss as to how automatic weapons fit into that picture. I’m educable and willing to listen to a cogent argument, but I prefer my venison not to look like Swiss cheese.

[benEzra]

17. Automatic weapons are ALREADY tightly controlled in the USA, and have been since 1934.

I come from a long line of hunters/sportsmen/marksmen who actually know/knew how to handle fire arms and would prefer that the uninitiated keep away from owning and or using them, but have never understood the rational for automatic fire arms in the hands of private citizens....As for hunters/sportsmen, I’m at a complete loss as to how automatic weapons fit into that picture. I’m educable and willing to listen to a cogent argument, but I prefer my venison not to look like Swiss cheese.

Automatic weapons are ALREADY tightly controlled in the USA, and have been since 1934; they are restricted just as tightly as 105mm howitzers, shoulder-fired rocket launchers, and 500-lb bombs by the Title 2/Class III provisions of the National Firearms Act of 1934. These same provisions apply to guns easily converted to automatic fire, even if they are not actually converted.

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wbardwel/public/nfalist/nfa_faq.txt

The "assault weapon" fraud is NOT about automatic weapons. It is about banning the most popular NON-automatic centerfire target rifles and defensive carbines in U.S. homes. "Assault weapons" dominate competitive and recreational target shooting in this country.

Only 1 in 5 U.S. gun owners hunts; the rest of us would like to keep our guns, too, thanks. :toast:


-----------------------------
Dems and the Gun Issue - Now What? (written in '04, largely vindicated in '06, IMO)

[spin]

18. self delete...accidentily posted twice

[spin]

19. While I'm not a hunter, I can do research...

Fully automatic rifles are tightly regulated and in my opinion would be a poor choice for hunting. I do know that you can't use a full auto weapon for hunting in Florida. I serious doubt that it is legal to use such a weapon for hunting in any states. Reference page 16 of Florida Hunting Regulations:
http://www.floridaconservation.org/hunting/pdf/08-09HuntingRegulationsHandbook.pdf

Semi-auto rifles are popular with many hunters and have taken a lot of game through the years. For a list of the top 5 semi-auto hunting rifles check:

http://hunting.about.com/od/toppicks/tp/tp_auto_rifles.htm

Bolt action and lever action rifles are also popular. For a link that discusses these rifles as well as one semi-auto rifle visit "Top Deer Rifles":

http://www.chuckhawks.com/6x6.htm

I also asked a man who rooms with us in the big old hotel we bought as our residence. He has a lot of experience hunting and is an excellent shot and at one time was a police firearms instructor.

He said, "I prefer to use a bolt action rife to hunt, as I feel the first shot is the most important. But many hunters I've known like semi-auto rifles as it allows fast follow up shots. I feel they feel the need for follow up shots because they don't have confidence in their first shot. About 50 percent of the hunters I know use semi-auto rifles."

He also stated that he had used revolvers to hunt game in Florida as they are easier to carry through and use in heavy underbrush.

[SteveM]

20. No one is talking about "automatic fire arms" except to distinguish them from semi-auto...

Love has nothing to do with it. I believe that Obama either does not know the difference between auto and semi-auto, or he is willing to let the confused conflation of the two exist in order to ban both.

Semi-auto firearms have been used for years not only in the shooting sports but as weapons for hunting.

Have you ever heard of ANYONE who has Swiss cheesed a deer with a full-auto?

[spin]

22. I do remember hunters talking about 30 round magazines....

back in the 70's in Florida.

In those years hunters used to talk about how dangerous it was to go hunting because some fools made up for their lack of accuracy by hunting with an M1 carbine with a 30 round magazine. When the first shot failed to down the deer, they would empty the magazine trying to hit the animal as it ran. God forbid that you were downrange.

I believe the current laws hunting laws prohibit using a center fire semi-auto rifle with a magazine capacity of over five rounds.

Prohibited methods and equipment for taking game

Centerfire semi-automatic rifles having magazine capacities of more than five rounds
http://myfwc.com/hunting/pdf/08-09HuntingRegulationsHandbook.pdf

It would be hard to Swiss cheese a deer with five rounds.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

25. I suppose an M1 Carbine could take down a deer ...

just like a .22LR could take down a deer.

There are better choices, cartridges that increase the odds of a quick (humane?) kill.

Anyway, if you don't stop the deer with the first round, the chances of the second shot being an improvement are slim. The target is likely to be moving fast.

:hi:

[spin]

26. While it's a poor choice it is used for deer hunting...

The M1 carbine is still in use today by many civilian shooters and police around the world. The .30 Carbine cartridge is used for a number of types of hunting, including white-tailed deer, but is definitely underpowered for larger North American game such as elk, moose, and bear. Some U.S. states prohibit use of the cartridge for hunting deer and larger animals due to a lessened chance of killing an animal in a single shot, even with expanding bullets. The carbine is prohibited in several states such as Pennsylvania<25> because of the semi-automatic function, and Illinois<26> which prohibits all non-muzzleloading rifles for big game hunting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine

[SteveM]

27. Ocala Nat'l Forrest had a "bad" reputation on opening day...

Just after WWII, my Dad went hunting there with an H&R "Bay State" single-shot .12 gauge ...and felt underpowered. Though I haven't hunted big-game in Florida since I left for Texas in 1970, I think regs have changed. In the gun debate, a lot of people don't understand that regulations flow from use. In the home, regulation is minimal and should be; once outside, the state has an interest in more regulation. CCW is one such non-household use; hunting is another. In Texas, "There are no restrictions on the number of shells or cartridges a legal firearm may hold when hunting game animals or game birds (except migratory game birds...)" A shotgun can hold no more than three shells when hunting migratory game birds. Big game "...may NOT be hunted with rimfire ammunition of any caliber." This definition allows .223, too small in my opinion.

[slackmaster]

23. For civilians, the only function automatic weapons serve is as pricey collectors' items

Now that you have been thorougly excoriated for your naive question, I thought it would be useful to give you a slightly different practical perspective.

My collection of firearms is just about the only component of my retirement savings that has not taken a brutal beating in the last year or so. If my state didn't have such unreasonable, arbitrary restrictions on the purchase of firearms regulated under the National Firearms Act of 1934, my collection would surely include several curio or relic machine guns.

The non-NFA items in my collection are all likely to increase in value, but they are rather bulky. Buying scarce automatic weapons would be like switching from silver bullion to gold in terms of storage space requirements.

[enfield collector]

24. someone needs to explain to that senile asshole that he can't

use the interstate commerce clause to regulate the intrastate transaction between 2 law abiding citizens.