Just how is "concealed-carry" defined under Colorado law?

[SteveM]

We have a man arrested for carrying rifles and handguns into a hotel in Denver, charged with not having a concealed-carry permit for the handguns. Most of the CC laws focus on one's person, not cars, not houses, not hotel rooms. But it seems an arrest was made of someone who had handguns in his luggage and not on his person (the rifles, apparently, were not considered concealed since they were obviously being carried in a locked case, or so the reasoning may go). Should luggage be "hard cased," locked, or what?

If this arrest stands, how does anyone transport a handgun while afoot for the purposes of lawful storage and use? What if anything does Colorado law say about what constitutes carrying concealed?

[billyoc]

1. I'm not sure, but I think this whole business has more to do with the Secret Service

and the declaration of the DNC as a "National Security Event".

[SteveM]

2. But this guy was arrested under Colorado law...

No matter how dubious, shouldn't he have been "charged" with one of Bush's new federal violations?

[billyoc]

3. Hmm... Yeah, I think he should.

[Indy Lurker]

4. Colorado Law

18-12-105. Unlawfully carrying a concealed weapon - unlawful possession of weapons.

(1) A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if such person knowingly and unlawfully:
(b) Carries a firearm concealed on or about his or her person;

or possibly

(c) Without legal authority, carries...a firearm ...within any building in which ... a legislative hearing or meeting is being or is to be conducted....

If some legislators were holding or planning on holding a meeting in the hotel.

btw:

The words "about the person" means sufficiently close to the person to be readily accessible for immediate use. People in Interest of R.J.A., 38 Colo. App. 346, 556 P.2d 491 (1976).

So if the guns in the luggage were loaded in the luggage, they could be considered "readily accessible for immediate use" If they were unloaded, it would seem to be a bit of a stretch to me.

It's also up to the jury to decide if it was concealed.

Question of whether weapon is concealed is question of fact for the jury which should not be summarily determined by the trial judge at the time that he rules on the defendant's motion to suppress. People v. Vincent, 628 P.2d 107 (Colo. 1981).



****************************************************************
Full Law
18-12-105. Unlawfully carrying a concealed weapon - unlawful possession of weapons.

(1) A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if such person knowingly and unlawfully:
(a) Carries a knife concealed on or about his or her person; or
(b) Carries a firearm concealed on or about his or her person; or
(c) Without legal authority, carries, brings, or has in such person's possession a firearm or any explosive, incendiary, or other dangerous device on the property of or within any building in which the chambers, galleries, or offices of the general assembly, or either house thereof, are located, or in which a legislative hearing or meeting is being or is to be conducted, or in which the official office of any member, officer, or employee of the general assembly is located.
(d) (Deleted by amendment, L. 93, p. 964, § 1, effective July 1, 1993.)


(2) It shall not be an offense if the defendant was:
(a) A person in his or her own dwelling or place of business or on property owned or under his or her control at the time of the act of carrying; or
(b) A person in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance who carries a weapon for lawful protection of such person's or another's person or property while traveling; or
(c) A person who, at the time of carrying a concealed weapon, held a valid written permit to carry a concealed weapon issued pursuant to section 18-12-105.1, as it existed prior to its repeal, or, if the weapon involved was a handgun, held a valid permit to carry a concealed handgun or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to part 2 of this article; except that it shall be an offense under this section if the person was carrying a concealed handgun in violation of the provisions of section 18-12-214; or
(d) A peace officer, as described in section 16-2.5-101, C.R.S., when carrying a weapon in conformance with the policy of the employing agency as provided in section 16-2.5-101 (2), C.R.S.; or
(e) (Deleted by amendment, L. 2003, p. 1624, § 46, effective August 6, 2003.)
(f) A United States probation officer or a United States pretrial services officer while on duty and serving in the state of Colorado under the authority of rules and regulations promulgated by the judicial conference of the United States.

Source: L. 71: R&RE, p. 482, § 1. C.R.S. 1963: § 40-12-105. L. 73: p. 683, § 3. L. 77: (2)(c) amended and (2)(d) added, p. 976, § 8, effective July 1. L. 81: (2)(c) amended, p. 1437, § 3, effective June 8. L. 86: (2)(d) amended and (2)(e) added, p. 774, § 2, effective July 1. L. 89: (1)(d) added, p. 911, § 1, effective April 15. L. 93: Entire section amended, p. 964, § 1, effective July 1. L. 94: (2)(e) amended and (2)(f) added, p. 647, § 1, effective July 1. L. 2000: IP(2) amended, p. 1009, § 1, effective August 2. L. 2003: (2)(c) amended, p. 648, § 3, effective May 17; (2)(d) and (2)(e) amended, p. 1624, § 46, effective August 6.

Cross references: For affirmative defenses generally, see §§ 18-1-407, 18-1-710, and 18-1-805.




ANNOTATION
Am. Jur.2d. See 79 Am. Jur.2d, Weapons and Firearms, §§ 12-14, 16.
C.J.S. See 94 C.J.S., Weapons, §§ 9, 10.

Recognition of § 13 of art. II, Colo. Const. Section 13 of art. II, Colo. Const., has limiting language dealing with defense of home, person, and property. These limitations have been recognized by the general assembly in the enactment of this section, which restricts the right to bear arms in certain circumstances, while permitting in other circumstances the carrying of a concealed weapon in defense of home, person, and property, and also when specifically authorized by written permit. People v. Blue, 190 Colo. 95, 544 P.2d 385 (1975).

The words "about the person" means sufficiently close to the person to be readily accessible for immediate use. People in Interest of R.J.A., 38 Colo. App. 346, 556 P.2d 491 (1976).


The scope of subsection (2)(b) is clarified in § 18-12-105.6, which indicates the general assembly's intent that local ordinances on carrying weapons in private vehicles be preempted only insofar as they conflict with the provisions of § 18-12-105.6. Trinen v. City & County of Denver, 53 P.3d 754 (Colo. App. 2002).


The local ordinance concerning carrying a weapon in a private vehicle is not preempted since it can be harmonized with subsection (2)(b). Trinen v. City & County of Denver, 53 P.3d 754 (Colo. App. 2002).


Pistol tucked under edge of car seat. Where uncontested evidence established that pistol was tucked under the edge of a car seat on which petitioner was sitting, where it was within his easy reach, these circumstances constitute carrying a "firearm concealed on or about his person". People in Interest of R.J.A., 38 Colo. App. 346, 556 P.2d 491 (1976).


Question of whether weapon is concealed is question of fact for the jury which should not be summarily determined by the trial judge at the time that he rules on the defendant's motion to suppress. People v. Vincent, 628 P.2d 107 (Colo. 1981).



Former subsection (2)(c) did not confer power to issue permits for carrying concealed weapons to police chiefs and sheriffs. Douglass v. Kelton, 199 Colo. 446, 610 P.2d 1067 (1980).




Person receiving permit to carry concealed weapon cannot be convicted. Once a person receives a permit to carry



a concealed weapon in a county or city, he may not be convicted under subsection (2)(c). Douglass v. Kelton, 199 Colo. 446, 610 P.2d 1067 (1980).




Statute as basis for jurisdiction. See People v. Pickett, 194 Colo. 178, 571 P.2d 1078 (1977).




Defendant could not be convicted of carrying a concealed weapon without the prosecution proving that defendant intended to use this short-bladed knife as a weapon. While the characteristics of an instrument may be an important factor in determining the intended purpose of an instrument, the language of the concealed weapons statute and established precedent establishes that a knife's design does not, by itself, prove that the person carrying it intended to use it as a weapon. A.P.E. v. People, 20 P.3d 1179 (Colo. 2001).




Applied in People v. Velasquez, 641 P.2d 943 (Colo. 1982); People v. Deschamp, 662 P.2d 171 (Colo. 1983).

[SteveM]

6. Thanks, After a recent computer "stroke," I haven't been able to open...

some links. The portion of the law that interested me was "on or about his or her person." This strikes me as vague and subject to abuse, not only for the reasons you indicated, but for the practical reason that a gun-owner cannot transfer a firearm from a legal place (auto) to another legal place (hotel room or home) without potentially violating this law. There is very little standard for what constitutes "readily accessible for immediate use."

I think this charge should be fought.

[spin]

5. Summary of Colorado Concealed Carny Law...

http://www.rmgo.org/ccwguide/#Summary

(Note: the owners of this site appear to have a sense of humor. Under the section which is labeled New Criminal Safezones , they include a disclaimer stating: (no carry allowed except by criminals)

At first glance it looks like the concealed carry permit applies to handguns only. You may be able to carry a concealed handgun, but even with the permit a concealed knife may be illegal. You have to be an attorney to figure out all the in and outs of state laws. We send people to the state legislative bodies to represent us and they can't write laws that the average Joe can understand. What a farce.

For more detailed info try this link:
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/statelaws/23rdedition...

Maybe some poster from Colorado can enlighten us.

[SteveM]

7. Ha! I saw the first link when researching Colorado's law (nt)

[Factoid]

8. Essentially correct,

With the 2003 change to the state's CCW laws (Shall Issue), knives fell by the wayside - nobody set out to make them illegal to carry concealed, they just kinda became that way when the wording was changed. I've not heard anyone ever charged with this however, and speaking to my LEO contacts, none of them are going to arrest anyone with a knife and a CCW permit, so long as they're not doing something foolish with it.

Also, as near as I can determine, it's legal to openly carry a large knife, you still see the occasional guy with a buckknife on his belt out in Denver and Boulder. (And the occasional goth type with a long silver dagger roaming around certain areas in Denver.)

In regards to this gentleman, so long as the pistols were kept inside of a lockable piece of luggage (I cannot think of any luggage made these days that are not designed to be secured by a small luggage padlock), and not with a loaded magazine, he's in the clear. Considering that it he was from Wyoming, and probobly down in denver to stay overnight and catch the bus in to the airport, his firearms were likely all ready to be checked into TSA, which means unloaded and locked in their cases. I have a feeling this will be quietly dropped, unless he wants to make a fuss out of it, which I doubt he will so long as he gets his $10,000 back.

[spin]

9. Thanks for the input...

Knives often get left out of the concealed carry laws. Florida has a concealed weapons permit and a person with a permit can carry a switchblade if he desires, as long as it is concealed. (Note: a switchblade knife is fun to play with but not necessarily a good self defense weapon or even a good choice for a tool.)

790.06 License to carry concealed weapon or firearm.--

(1) The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services is authorized to issue licenses to carry concealed weapons or concealed firearms to persons qualified as provided in this section. Each such license must bear a color photograph of the licensee. For the purposes of this section, concealed weapons or concealed firearms are defined as a handgun, electronic weapon or device, tear gas gun, knife, or billie, but the term does not include a machine gun as defined in s. 790.001(9). Such licenses shall be valid throughout the state for a period of 5 years from the date of issuance. Any person in compliance with the terms of such license may carry a concealed weapon or concealed firearm
http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/fl.txt

The Florida concealed carry laws are reasonably well written and conceived and have often been used as an example for the concealed carry laws in other states.

I personally carry two knives used for tools at all times. One is a fully serrated folding knife with a blade length of 4 inches. The other is a fixed blade knife with a plain edge, also 4 inches long. The folder I use for difficult cutting tasks, the fixed blade for food prep as it is easy to clean. If I were to journey to some states which have reciprocal concealed carry laws with Florida, the knives might be illegal while the firearm would present no problem. Go figure.