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davepc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 12:49 PM
Original message
Victims demand firearms control (UK)
Edited on Wed Jul-09-08 01:13 PM by davepc
http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-east-news/todays-new...

THREE women who were victims of a shooting rampage in North Tyneside 19 years ago, last night handed a petition to the Government calling for tighter gun controls.

Judith Rhodes, Pam Mackintosh and Debbie Haggie, all of Whitley Bay, were wounded on April 30 1989.

...

Now the three women, who are part of the group Campaign Against Weapon Sales and Storage (CAWSS), want to put pressure on the Government to bring in regulations allowing guns to be sold and stored only through licensed gun clubs. Judith Rhodes was Sartins first victim, shot in the hand as she tried to avoid his shots. He had gained access to his fathers gun, which was stored in the family home.


...


Mrs Mackintosh said: This petition was sparked when a sports shop in Whitley Bay was allowed to start selling guns despite residents, the council and police objecting.

It is just ridiculous how easy it is to get hold of weapons. Anything we can do to prevent another Dunblane or Hungerford massacre would be great.



edit: I have no idea why the link is borked...
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tburnsten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. Despite the fact
that the weapons so "easy" to get are all illegally bought and sold? Despite the fact that the UK already has an almost total prohibition on firearms?

What a kook.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. But not for shotguns
which is what the story is about. Shotguns are legal; as the story says, a shop was allowed to start selling them.
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tburnsten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. "legal" and "heavily restricted" are not mutually exclusive
I am unclear on the exact process but it is certainly incredibly tough to be approved to own even the "legal" shotguns. Interesting thing though, they do have shotguns with integral sound reducers over there, because in all the European countries they view supressors as safety devices (which they are) and not as super-stealth assassin murder escape tools, which our ATF and general population views them as. I guess europe is doing something we should emulate after all...
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Who mentioned 'heavily restricted'?
You said the weapons in question were "all illegally bought and sold". Clearly, even just from the excerpt (you can get the story if you add a trailing '/' to the URL, by the way), these are guns that are currently being sold legally.

Maybe if you're unclear on the process, you shouldn't say you're certain about it. You mustn't have a conviction, or be suffering from some medical conditions, such as depression or epilepsy. There are an estimated 1.4 million shotguns in the country - it's not that hard to get a licence.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. oh look

Some more false nonsense you get to retract.

You do like to keep busy, doncha?

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Lord, but that's a dumb post. n/t.
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radioburning Donating Member (146 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
6. Wow, somebody got murdered 19 years ago? It's an EPIDEMIC!!!!!!!!
I wonder if the government is gonna be able to handle the pressure from 3 old ladies about something that hasn't happened in 19 years. :rofl:
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. that was indeed a dumb post

but this one has topped it. For obnoxiousness too, eh? G'head, call me a troll (well, it isn't for me to say), but I wonder how we know these women are "old ladies" ... and exactly what the relevance would be if they were?

Oh, I know. Old ladies are stupid and hysterical should be disregarded whenever they open their mouths.

And they say that gun militants aren't misogynists ...

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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. dumb and dumber posts

I wonder if the government is gonna be able to handle the pressure from 3 old ladies about something that hasn't happened in 19 years.

Couldn't get to the article before; seems to need the / at the end:

http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-east-news/todays-new...
/2008/07/09/victims-demand-firearms-control-61634-21309183/



I guess a teenaged boy would refer to the woman on the right, who I would guess is Ms MacIntosh, whose husband was killed, as an "old lady". But then, not many grown women give a shit about much of anything teenaged boys say.

That day Robert James Sartin got hold of a double-barrelled shotgun and, dressed in black with dark glasses, got into his car outside his parents home in Monkseaton.

Over the next 15 minutes he killed Ken Mackintosh, Pams husband, and injured 14 other people in the village.

... They say firearms and ammunition should not be allowed to be sold in urban areas; sales of firearms should be restricted to registered gun clubs; guns should not allowed to be stored in homes, only at registered gun clubs, and gun users should not be allowed to transport them by road, rail or air.


Which, heck, is pretty much what I'd say if I lived there.

Here, we have a bit more wilderness and wide-open country, and some people have a bit more need to have firearms that aren't related to sports shooting. Nobody in a city does, though.

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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I stand quite properly corrected:
that second post is quite a bit dumber.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-09-08 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. It's quite amazing he was able to do that with a gun with so little firepower.
Was the double barreled shotgun his only weapon? The story didn't mention anything else. Quite a shame, did he have a history of mental illness?

David
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. here's another one for you


http://www.guardian.co.uk/fromthearchive/story/0,,12862...

Thursday August 20, 1987

A berserk gunman who stalked through the quiet town of Hungerford , Berkshire, shooting dead 14 people and wounding another 14 killed himself last night after being besieged by police. A muffled shot was heard just after 7 pm inside the school in the town where he had been surrounded by armed police. It was the end of an horrific episode of inexplicable violence visited on the town by a local man identified by the police as Michael Ryan, aged 27.

His victims included his own mother and an unarmed traffic policeman, named last night as PC Roger Bereton, aged 41, a married man with two teenage sons.

The youngest casualty was a 14-year-old girl, Lisa Mildenhall, who was shot in both legs. She was in a hospital intensive care unit last night, fighting for her life.

The killer who brought terror to the historic market town wore Rambo-style army combat gear as he strutted through the sunny streets, firing two guns at random, sending children and shoppers running screaming for cover.


One of the guns in that case was a shotgun, anyway.



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radioburning Donating Member (146 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 03:24 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Thousands of years ago somebody got beat to death with a stone. We should get rid of all rocks!!!n/t
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Real_Talk Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. that scenario makes me want to be armed
I will explain to you why I feel that way.
I can not predict or control the behavior of a madman.
I can control my own state of preparedness.

There is no way this man would have strolled down the street shooting people if their had been armed people around. Gun free zones attract and embolden the nut balls. See the bull dozer attack in Israel for a counter example, that person was stopped by a passerby within minutes.

You don't always need a gun, but when you do, you need it right then.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 03:20 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. "Does that make me a misogynist?"
Edited on Thu Jul-10-08 11:42 AM by iverglas


You be the judge:

I wonder if the government is gonna be able to handle the pressure from 3 old ladies about something that hasn't happened in 19 years. :rofl:


Of course, there are just scads of things you might be ...

P.s. You are a troll. Once in a blue moon you will actually make a coherent, intelligent, logical point. But, unfortunately, most of your posts are straight out attacks right out of the gate, with no actual debate points other than "well, you're just an ignorant, woman hating, right wing, republican thug." Nothing really accomplished other than an internet version of sticking your tongue out at somebody. I'm not even angry, or trying to cut you down. Your posts are almost always the text book definition of "trolling"...

... one of which might be looking in a mirror.

Or trying really hard. Will you get your wish?



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Real_Talk Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #10
18. i beg to differ
The city is where you are more likely to run into human predators. If I have to choose between being armed in the city or in the country, I take the city.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-08 04:24 AM
Response to Original message
16. They should ban grey-painted cars as well
I was hit by a grey-painted car once, and find it ridiculous that anybody can buy them on the streets without a background check or waiting period.

I think I'll start an organization: Americans Against Grey-Painted Vehicles. We'll bribe lobby for strict laws regarding the sale, purchase, possession, and operation of grey-painted vehicles and the people that own them, begin an on-line database of grey-painted-vehicle-related deaths and injuries, and claim victory when grey-painted-vehicle-related deaths and injuries drop.
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