Thieves are rarely armed and don't want to hurt anyone, yeah right.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

The man charged with trying to kill a Knoxville police officer dropped him with the first shots and then stood over him to pull the trigger execution-style, court records revealed today.

Cleven J. "Cleveland" Johnson, 26, faces charges that include attempted first-degree murder in Tuesday's shooting of Knoxville Police Department Officer Norman Rickman.

Police said Johnson shot Rickman, a 19-year KPD veteran, when the officer showed up to investigate a silent burglar alarm at 6600 Rockbridge Lane in Northwest Knoxville near the city limits. Rickman walked to the back of the house and surprised Johnson and two others - James Willie Murry, 32, and Tony R. Dixon, 17 - as they climbed out a back window, authorities said.

The shooting marked the second time Rickman, 45, took a bullet in the line of duty. He survived a shooting in 2001.

Rickman remains in critical but stable condition after surgery at the University of Tennessee Medical Center.

Police rounded up all three suspects within 24 hours of the shooting. All remain in jail.

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/may/22/warrant-cop-sh... /


This officer's brother is a retired firefighter and friend. Another friend called me and told me about the shooting. It has been asserted here on many occasions that burglars are rarely armed and have the intent to harm anyone, I guess that's until they are discovered. Thoughts and prayers to Officer Rickman.


David

[sandnsea]

1. When did one antecdote become a statistic? n/t

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

2. zanne posts them all the time never see you complain about that.

That's okay though plenty of hypocrites around.

David

[sandnsea]

3. Different purpose

The purpose of her posts are generally to get you to see the senselessness of the lives lost due to this country's lust for guns.

You used an article to pretend people are saying something they aren't saying. That's the hypocritical difference.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

4. People say it all the time here.

Burglars just want your stuff, they don't want to hurt anyone. You shouldn't shoot someone just because they are in your house at night they are probably just hungry. I have seen all of those comments posted here. The difference is you agree with her purpose, that's the only difference.


David

[varkam]

5. And since when have two wrongs made a right, FMD? eom

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

7. Fair is fair.

All the gun grabbers use is anecdotal evidence, because they don't have anything else. I simply posted a story about a friends brother that anecdotally dispelled a common misconception about burglars. Most burglars are armed with something at least that's what they say in their prison interviews. Most of them say they will use that weapon to escape if necessary. Sorry you don't like it but fair is fair.

David

[sandnsea]

9. Well then ask for statistics

But don't say that someone made a claim that they didn't make, and then pretend your antecdote is evidence to the contrary. That's just silly.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

11. I stated the claims that were made.

You didn't refute that any of them had been made. Please show me the claim that I made that's untrue.

David

[sandnsea]

14. Nothing is ever 100%

That's the claim that is untrue. Nobody ever said that burglars never carry guns. That was never at issue so your antecode is useless. You can post 1,000 antecodes and they're still useless - until you turn the antecdotes into statistics.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

15. Please show me where I wrote that.

That's what I thought. If you are going to make stuff up probably should do it a little later in the post.


David

[sandnsea]

18. All of them

You claimed that zanne is always posting that thieves don't want to hurt anyone and are just hungry, as if she said a burglar has never hurt anyone and never will. Nothing is 100% so why do you pretend your post is evidence of anything. It's not.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

21. More misinformation from you, more reading comprehension would be better.

I never said zanne posted those statements. I said that I have seen those statements posted here. I said zanne routinely post anecdotal posts that don't seem to get your panties in a wad. By saying "as if" you are simply writing what you wanted to believe I was saying not what I actually said. So I'll give you one more try.


David

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

22. My post is proof that burglars are sometimes are with firearms and are willing to use them.

[sandnsea]

23. Nobody ever said there are never burglars with firearms

no matter how many times you try to pretend otherwise.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

27. Show me where I said that.

It's not that hard. Just cut that statement out of my post paste it and paste a link to it. Go ahead we are waiting.

David

[sandnsea]

29. It's the compilation of the posts

just more sick games.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

31. So I never said it, you can apologize now.

Thanks in advance.

David

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

28. Even the title of my post show's you are wrong.

It's okay you can apologize.


David

[sandnsea]

34. Compilation, more than one

Including this:

"Burglars just want your stuff, they don't want to hurt anyone. You shouldn't shoot someone just because they are in your house at night they are probably just hungry."

As if anybody said this is the case of 100% of burglars. Nobody did.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

35. You're right nobody said it, INCLUDING ME.

I plainly stated that in the title. The statements you quoted here are a compilation of statements that have been posted on DU. I never said that the posters said this was true of all burglars. The "probably" in the last statement should make that clear to anyone. My post is simply an example of some percentage of burglars who are armed with firearms and are willing to use them.

David

[sandnsea]

36. Good, then the OP isn't relevant

because you were arguing something nobody ever said. Glad you get it.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

37. Again shame on you for thinking this officers shooting is irrelevant.

Nice try though. Glad you finally get it. Still waiting on that apology.


David

[sandnsea]

38. Gosh, a post isn't the same thing as a human

sorry you're willing to exploit the man's death to score stupid points on a message board.

I put your words in quotes for chrissake. You said what you said.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

40. You really can't read can you?

His brother is a friend and he didn't die. Hooked on Phonics is supposed to be good my brothers 3 year old is using it.

David

[sandnsea]

42. Have a nice evening

You're clearly drunk.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

43. Thanks you too.

Enjoyed it.

David

[mzmolly]

57. Hello SS - Is that you I saw

Is that you I saw on Mitch and Nan's blog (where I am only lurking until the court case against me is decided upon.) At that time, I'll be able to finally comment.

Glad to see some DU-ers taking an interest.

I think you'll be a nice addition to those pursuing the truth.

Peace



Mzm

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

41. Glad you think zanne is exploiting peoples deaths though.

Hope to see you chime in with that point in the next version of America's Shooting Gallery.


David

[Howzit]

44. Burglars rarely break in using their bare hands

The crowbar, screwdriver or whatever tool they have with them doubles as a weapon in the event that they are surprised by a homeowner.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

17. It's a shame you can only think of this officer as an anecdote.

[sandnsea]

20. There you go again

pretending someone said something that they never said.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

24. Just my interpretation of where your concerns lie.

It's obviously not with the officer.

David

[sandnsea]

30. You're a lousy interpreter

You misinterpreted the comments of people regarding home burglaries. Now you're misinterpreting me. Maybe if you'd deal with the facts instead of sensationalizing everything, we'd get somewhere.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

32. I've posted the facts.

You've done nothing but complain about anecdote.


David

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

33. I just find it funny that you have expressed no concern for the officer or his condition.

Maybe that's a misinterpretation but it's based on your actions.


David

[sandnsea]

6. And?

What's that got to do with anything? Most burglars don't carry guns. Nobody would ever say 100% of burglars don't carry guns. So what's the point of your post? You're just saying that people said something they didn't say.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

8. See post #7

[maxidivine]

52. Except many people DO say that

the best thing to do is to just go along with any crime against you, there was a thread that was hot this week about how people in the U.S. are too quick to kill over "petty crimes". Well yes, our criminals are more than willing to end someone else's life over the minor crimes they are committing, and they are also more than willing to risk their own life for someone elses property or for illicit drug profits.

Sorry if I don't go along with the idea that not resisting criminals is the only morally righteous path.

[virginia mountainman]

56. Different purpose

The purpose of his posts are generally to get you to see the senselessness of the lives lost due to the blind hatred of republican gun control advocates.

You used an article to pretend people are saying something they aren't saying. That's the hypocritical difference.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

10. Guess I should have posted this too.

After charging one man in the slaying of a 72-year-old East Knoxville woman, police investigators said others were involved, and more charges may be filed.

"We're far from being over with this case," said Knoxville Police Department Sgt. Tim Snoderly. "We think there's more people involved."

Officers arrested Darius J. Kyle, 20, at 3:09 a.m. Tuesday on a charge of first-degree murder. He is accused of the fatal shooting March 21 of Nola Atkins.

snip

Atkins was shot during the early morning hours of Friday, March 21, according to records. Kyle entered the great-grandmother's home at 3712 Selma Ave. to steal her property, court records state.

"A witness, familiar with (Kyle), saw (Kyle) enter the home, heard the shot, then the witness saw (Kyle) exit the victim's residence," states the warrant obtained by Tipton.

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/may/21/suspect-charge... /

Just another anecdote according to you.

David

[JohnnyRingo]

12. Personally I never believed they were not dangerous

That's why there are two levels of crime for breaking into a building.

"Breaking and entering" is for breaking into an unoccupied building, such as a commercial business.

"Burglary" is entering someone's residence, and is dealt with much more harshly because the burglar understands there's always a chance of a violent confrontation. Many professional burglars arrive prepared for that possibility.

I think the vast majority of burglaries involve someone who knows the homeowner personally, and because of familiarity, doesn't fear confrontation. If someone breaks into a home and steals your son's Wii, it was probably just one of his "friends" who knew no one was at home.

[Beregond2]

13. I've never said thieves are rarely armed and don't wan to hurt anyone.

I have said that people who attempt to stop an armed robber by producing a gun themselves are far more likely to be injured or killed, which is a statistical fact. Not that I expect facts to make any difference to gun nuts.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

16. Show us the statistics then.

Post them.

David

[Beregond2]

19. The statistics are all over the place, if you care to do a little research.

I've made another post that has a link to one such site, under the heading: "guns."

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

25. So you don't have them.

Interesting.


David

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

26. You stated it as fact, be a man and back it up.

According to you, they are everywhere it shouldn't be hard.


David

[Beregond2]

45. Actually, I had a great article with lots of statistics ready to post here,

but then I realized it was one of those sites where you can't just copy what you highlight, you end up posting pages of stuff, and I didn't want to mess-up your post with all that. Then I had to go to work. I'll try again.

[slackmaster]

47. Bullshit

Nice try.

[Beregond2]

49. Here is a link to a pdf from

bradycampaign.org

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/factsheets/pdf/firea...

I would draw your attention to the section titled: "Guns in the Home."

To quote:

"For every time a gun is used in a home in a legally-justifiable shooting, there are 22 criminal, unintentional and suicide-related shootings

The presence of a gun in the home triples the risk of homicide in the home.

The presence of a gun in the home increases the risk of suicide five-fold."


To repeat: I have no desire to take away any law-abiding citizen's right to own a gun. But they should be aware that if they think they are improving their personal safety by doing so, they are mistaken. Facts are facts.

I could post studies backing up these claims all day, but as I said, the decision to own a gun for protection is emotion-based, and I learned long ago that no amount of information will change the mind of those commited to the idea that owning a gun makes them safer. Besides, the issue isn't mine; it is yours, so the onus is on you to do the research But I have no doubt you will only look at the skewed statistics put out by the NRA and their various front-men.

Good luck to you.

[slackmaster]

50. Well now, THERE'S an unbiased source of information

Nothing in the Brady document supports your claim that "people who attempt to stop an armed robber by producing a gun themselves are far more likely to be injured or killed".

I gave you actual government statistics in reply #46. You've got nothing.

[pipoman]

53. I know you believe(d?) what you wrote

but, the source you site have been proven to be wrong over and over.

There are those who come here who refuse to look critically at this issue, instead favoring long held erroneous beliefs. Others come here with these beliefs, look critically at both sides and end up either changing their mind or admitting to themselves that they simply don't like guns and don't care about the facts.

[maxidivine]

55. They are a group out to ban guns

and they will do anything they need to "prove" that guns are bad and people with guns are "at risk" of beiung injured or killed by said guns.

[DonP]

48. I smell the odor of the Kellerman study again

... being used by someone that stopped looking when they found the "number" they wanted and missed the four subsequent attempts by Kellerman to pass peer review and the resultant multiple discreditings of the study.

Next up, Professor Michael Bellisles explains that there really were very few guns in pre-civil war America, as soon as he can get time off from his current job as the Tenured drive-thru order taker at Burger King.

[slackmaster]

46. You are wrong and here are some real statistics to prove it

Self-defense with firearms

*38% of the victims defending themselves with a firearm attacked
the offender, and the others threatened the offender with the
weapon.

*A fifth of the victims defending themselves with a firearm
suffered an injury, compared to almost half of those who defended
themselves with weapons other than a firearm or who had no weapon.
Care should be used in interpreting these data because many aspects
of crimes--including victim and offender characteristics, crime
circumstances, and offender intent--contribute to the victims'
injury outcomes.


About three-fourths of the victims who used firearms for
self-defense did so during a crime of violence, 1987-92...

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/hvfsdaft.txt

Would you care to retract or modify your statement now?

[maxidivine]

54. Call BS

Where on earth did you discover that people who resist criminals a "far more likely to be injured or killed"? Isn't true, been debunked, see benezra's posts.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

39. Guess I should have posted this one too,3 arrested in shooting deaths of 2 LSU students.

3 arrested in shooting deaths of 2 LSU students


The bodies of Chandrasekhar Reddy Komma and Kiran Kumar Allam, both doctoral students from India, were found late Dec. 13 in Allam's apartment on the LSU campus. Each had been shot once in the head. Komma was bound with a computer cable, and Allam was found near the door.

At the time, police described the attack as a home invasion but said there was no forced entry at the apartment complex, a cluster of three-story cinderblock buildings near a high-crime area of Baton Rouge.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080523/ap_on_re_us/lsu_stu...


How many of these do I have to post before it stops becoming anecdotal?

David

[avenger64]

51. Don't forget Sean Taylor ....

.... the Redskins player who was at his home when thugs broke in. He went down to see what was going on and they shot him dead, with his pregnant girlfriend upstairs. They apparently had originally intended to 'just steal some stuff', but what they actually did was create a volatile and dangerous situation where the homeowner ended up dead. This is why we need strong castle doctrine laws that allow the homeowner to defend himself and his property.