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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 03:22 PM
Original message
Accidental Shooting Claims Another Utah Child
Accidental Shooting Claims Another Utah Child

(Salt Lake City-AP) --
Another accidental shooting claims a Utah teenager.

Police say the 14-year-old boy shot himself with one of the handgun he was playing with. He also was handling a pair of sawed-off shotguns.

The little boy was with a 13-year-old friend, the only other witness to yesterday's shooting.

Salt Lake Police Lieutenant John Cardona says authorities are trying to find out why the guns were left out and how the shooting happened.

<more>

http://www.4utah.com/local_news/local_headlines/story.a...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yesterday's death brought to 64 the number of Utah children killed
in an accidental shooting since 1988.
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Fescue4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
2. Very sad and tragic.

But no more so than the thousands of children who die every year in autos, swimming pools, even the stairs in your home. All of which are statistically more dangerous than firearms.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Here's a Little Visual Lesson For You, Fescue4u
These are apples.


These are oranges.


Notice they are NOT the same?????

Please bear this in mind......
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Uh...CO...they're still all fruit
and, therefore, related. As are the statistical causes of childrens' deaths.

Stairs, automobiles, etc are statistically more dangerous to children, as we've seen a million times here.

Oh, but I forgot...it's the gun's fault.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. The Same Old Song
I wish you pro-gunners would stay on topic. We're talking about guns. You know....the objects you idolize so?????
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Why, to do that
would threaten the little fantasy world the RKBA crowd maintains...
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Relax, big guy...
I was on topic.

Guns, although dangerous, are not as statistically dangerous to cause death than stairs, cars, etc.

Or, was your purpose in posting this to dangle some flame bait out there?
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Not At All
Just to show that more guns = more death.
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. OK...let's see
Would you agree with me that there were more guns in Utah in 2000 than there were in 1999?

If so, then:

Firearms deaths in Utah 1999: 192
Firearms deaths in Utah 2000: 193

Yep, you were right! More guns = more death (at least one more)....

Ban them all! AAARRRRGGGGHHH!!!! :evilgrin:

Source:

Link - CDC
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Wait, there's more!!!
The firearm-related death rate (per 100,000) in 1999 was 9.01 while the death rate in 2000 was 8.92...

Wait a minute, shouldn't the death rate have gone up seeing as how more guns=more crime?

Brian

Note: same link as previous post.
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demsrule4life Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. So is this an apple or an orange?
Things like this happen and people go oh well, someone has an accident with a gun and the world comes apart. I dont consider someone who is 14 a little boy, unless that kid had some mental defect he knew how dangerous it was playing with a gun.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,97943,00.html
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Blame the victim, eh, dems?
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Or, blame the gun?
Like you enjoy doing so. I never knew a piece of metal and wood could harbor so much evil!

Jeeze, grow a set of ballz.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Might as well resort to personal attacks again, fly...
Koresh knows you haven't got anything approaching a fact....
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Only with you, Bubba.
...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. No, you haven't had a fact anywhere, fly
And your posts show it....
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Go peddle that rubbish to someone who cares
...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Happy to...
This is after all, Democratic Underground.....lots of people here care....even if a handful of right wing loonies sneaking over from highroadrage.com don't....
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Cry us a river, Bench...
Seeing as you have nothing to offer here.
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Fescue4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
24. Perhaps Gun reform school is in order?
Guns that misbehave and kill innocents could be sent to special schools.

With luck, some of these bad guns, could be reformed into good guns. These good guns could then become police guns where police officers would accompany the police guns, when the police guns go out on patrol.

Of course, the bad guns that refuse to change would have to be eventually melted down.
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demsrule4life Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Exactly
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Romulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. that has got to be
the stupidest cartoon I have ever seen. I am not sure what the point is, or even if there is a point, other than taking any opportunity to use tragic events to bash the NRA.

It would be much better, and more productive, to criticize the NRA for the things it has atually done than for the things the rabid anti-gun-owner crowd imagines that the NRA has done.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Gee, you don't know what the point is?
It's pretty obvious to the rest of us...and right to the point in this thread....

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Fescue4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. I see the point clearly...
Focus on the gun, rather than the miscreates who misuse them.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Actually, you illustrate the point clearly
with that post....

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Pert_UK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
30. So then....the death penalty for stupid 14 year olds.
Kids are kids - you seriously expect that all 14 year olds who found a gun would just hand it in, or leave it alone?

It is obviously true that it's not clever to play with guns.......but did the kid deserve to die? People, especially teenagers, do stupid things all the time. The government shouldn't have to protect us from all risks and our own stupidity, but the presence of some objects represents more risk than others.

There aren't many things that are more dangerous to play around with are there?
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Fescue4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Doesnt logically follow.
No one would advocate the death penalty for kids acting dumb.

But life isnt fair and sometimes death is the penality for stupidity...both for adults and children.

Push your magic button that makes all guns disapeer off the face of earth, and people, children included will still die from stupidity.

I look back at my teen years and wonder how I survived myself.
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Pert_UK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #31
37. Fair enough...
You're right, it wasn't a logical conclusion, I was being a bit facetious and you called me on it, which is OK.

I also agree that we all do stupid things sometimes. However, the point is that we try to keep the environment as safe as is practically possible.

"Push your magic button that makes all guns disapeer off the face of earth, and people, children included will still die from stupidity."

Yes, that's true and you can't protect everyone from everything, but it would be mad to assume that the kids who die in gun accidents each year would all find other stupid ways of killing themselves.
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Fescue4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
23. Obviously dying of a gunshot wound vs falling down the stairs

Is a totally different way to go.

But what difference does it make? The kid is dead nonethless.

Oh wait I know!

If someone falls down the stairs, the anti-gun zealots could care less, but if a kid dies from a gun, its an excellent opportunity to score some political points...... :(



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Pert_UK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
28. Yes, yes, yes....of course.
Although, of course, there are a lot more autos, swimming pools and stairs around, that by definition have to remain in the open (forming potential risk), than there are guns, so a straight comparison seems hardly fair.

And then, of course, there's the fact guns are designed to cause death and injury, whereas the others aren't.

I don't know.....I just can't help feeling that I'd rather leave my kids alone with a staircase for 5 minutes than leave them alone with a loaded gun........what do you think the chances are that one of them will start playing with the staircase and accidentally kill the other one with it?

P.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. And When Staircases Are Banned, Only Outlaws Will Have Staircases
:-)
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. You Can Have My Staircases.....
...when you pry them from my cold, dead hands.

:-)
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Pert_UK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. I'm refusing to register my staircase....I'm moving to a 1 storey house
...with a cellar, so I can have a staircase down there without anyone knowing I've got it.

:-)

P.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. That Would Be a Concealed Staircase, Pert_UK
Ya got a permit for that????

:-)
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Wcross Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
26. I am for safe storage
I am a gun owner, and I believe in the right to keep and bear arms. That being said, I see a need for safe storage laws.

I understand that some people are too stupid to understand the dangers of a childs curiosity. I feel a law would not infringe on the right to keep and bear arms- it may make irresponsible people start thinking about what they are doing.

I don't think that a law that says EVERY gun has to be locked in a gunsafe is a good idea. If I take resonable care to keep my home locked, and some "child" breaks in and steals them, I shouldn't be held accountable. If I have children in my home and leave a loaded pistol laying around- I should be punished.

There are many ways to reduce gun accidents- something I think both sides of the issue truly wish to see. This would in no way infringe on anybody- it just makes sense.

The real tragedy is, the only time the law would be enforced is after a child is injured or killed. I would like to see an education effort included with the law.
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Pert_UK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Sensible and I totally agree.......
So you must have made a mistake somewhere....

:evilgrin:

P.
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Wcross Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. Please explain Pert
"So you must have made a mistake somewhere...."

I don't understand your statement Pert.



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Pert_UK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Just my little joke....
Come on, man! I thought the rule was that nobody "pro" guns could ever agree with a suggestion from somebody "anti" guns, and vice versa.

I was just being a little sarcastic - not about your posting, but about the whole stupid situation on here, where people just refuse to agree with common sense purely because somebody from the "other" side said it.

I was giving you credit where it was due.

P.
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Wcross Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Thanks Pert
Smart gun owners have believed in safe storage for a long time. There have been gun vaults for years.
Both sides of the debate want the same end result- lower criminal gun homocides and accidents. We just disagree on how to go about it.


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