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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 02:04 PM
Original message
MSNBC - KHQ-TV reporting shootings at Lewis and Clark Highschool..
... you know, if those kids had had guns....
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LearnedHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. Link???
n/t
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Can't link to TV reports...
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. 17 year old with handgun... SWAT team at the scene...
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LearnedHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. Link!
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
5. More on this story....
"A 17-year-old student who was "angry at everything" fired a handgun in a high school science classroom before aiming the weapon at a SWAT team officer, who then shot and critically wounded him, police said. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030...
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Problem solved
Good police work.

:toast:
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. More gloating over tragedy from the RKBA crowd
Who is surprised?
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Gloating?
He's right. Good policework and I hope they sue the living bejeezus out of the gunman.

B
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Gloating
And who is surprised? Certainly no one who reads what the RKBA crowd posts.
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Not gloating, so BLAH!!!
:bounce:
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Yeah, ri-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-ight
We can tell by the little happy icons.......
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Wait for it, Superfly......wait for it......
Bench is going to break out a 6-forum metaphor on bouncing icons, now.....
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. If the "bounce" icon necessarily conveys joy
The CO Liberal must really be thrilled by all of the anecdotes he posts.

(Hint: I know he is not a fan of violence or death.)
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Man, I'm outta here
there is no "discussion" going on here. What a disappointment. I'll come back in a few to see if things have changed, but I doubt it.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
11. Latest Developments
Police try to learn why student fired gun in Spokane high school

By Nicholas K. Geranios
The Associated Press

SPOKANE
An angry 17-year-old boy who fired a handgun in a high school science classroom for unexplained reasons was shot and critically wounded by police.
The student was shot by SWAT team officers inside a third-floor classroom at Lewis and Clark High School shortly before 1 p.m. on Monday, after police said the boy aimed his pistol at officers.

<snip>

Police Chief Roger Bragdon said police don't know why the boy brought the gun to school and have no motive for the shooting.

The teen remained in critical condition with life-threatening wounds at Sacred Heart Medical Center, police said this morning. The Spokesman-Review newspaper in today's editions quoted a police source as saying the boy was hit in the face, right arm and torso.

<more>

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/education/2001741...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Another RKBA "victory"
Thanks to the corrupt gun industry, there's no law in Washington state, requiring handgun trigger locks...and Spokane is prohibited from having stricter firearm laws than the entire state....
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Just Like They Did Here in Colorado
I wonder how many more people will be killed or injured before America wakes up........
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. The kid broke numerous laws as it is
How many more laws do you think it would have taken to dissuade him?
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. Why Is That Always the Pro-Gunner's Response?????
Rather than asking "what law would have prevented this?", why not think of what steps could be taken the do NOT require new laws? Such as responsible storage of firearms to keep them out of the hands of angry young kids????

But I tell you one thing - if gun owners don't take the responsibility of keeping their guns safe, then new laws WILL be passed to force them to do it.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Recognition of reality that laws don't and can't stop truly bad people
From doing bad things.

Rather than asking "what law would have prevented this?", why not think of what steps could be taken the do NOT require new laws? Such as responsible storage of firearms to keep them out of the hands of angry young kids????

I think encouraging responsible storage is a great idea. The problem is it's usually cast in terms of LAWS that mandate how guns are to be stored or LAWS that make it a crime when a kid gets your gun and a jury determines that you stored it negligently (e.g. California's CAP law). Personally I agree with the latter but CAP laws are all stick and no carrot; they can be applied only after the fact.

Here are two things I believe would help prevent this kind of incident, looking only at the issue of gun storage:

1. Tax credits for people who buy gun safes, and

2. Educating gun owners, particularly ones who have children in the home.

Beyond guns and laws, we need better availability of crisis intervention counseling and mental health care in general so that people who are having problems have a competent person (who is not a parent or teacher) to talk to.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. FINALLY!!!!!!
Something constructive.......

Let's keep it coming!!!!!!
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1a2b3c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. Washington
has no sales tax on gun safes.
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1a2b3c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. Can i ask what youre responce is CO?
What would stop this?
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Both Sides Working Together to Find A Solution
With everything on the table.
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Nope...
"With everything on the table."

Some things are just not negotiable.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Then We'll Never Find a Solution
*** sigh ***
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. And, now you're an expert on Spokane gun laws?
Tell me, oh wise one, from where does your expertise flow?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
1a2b3c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #17
32. can i ask why we can see the deleted messages?
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. Gee fly...
Not everyone is as feeble-minded and badly informed as the RKBA crowd is....
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Well, then, just tell us how
feeble-minded and badly informed you are, then.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Tell us, fly...
are you saying Washington state does have a handgun lock law?
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BullDozer Donating Member (754 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
28. WA
and Spokane is prohibited from having stricter firearm laws than the entire state....

Sorry but state preemption is a good thing. It makes it so that a city, lets say Seattle with it's corrupt (but hopefully not for long) city council can't for example decide that it's illegal for CPL holders to carry into coffee shops (Imagine the wild west shoot outs over whose double tall mocha was on the coffee bar first!). Preemption stops that from happening.

Preemption makes is so that I only have to learn and follow one set of laws as I spend my time traveling across the state of WA, I don't have to attempt to memorize all the nuances of law and code that have been set up at the whim of any city along my path.

Plus Spokane is unlikely to pass tougher gun laws, if you look at a map you will see that Spokane is on the right side of the state. Nuff said?

Washington State had an initiative on the ballot in 1997 (I676) that among other things addressed trigger locks (albeit at the time of a sale or transfer of handguns only). It failed miserably at the ballot box.(71% voted no)

Washington state has in the past had legislators try to push for "safe storage of firearms" AKA "lock up your safety" bills, they've made little progress with them.

Washington does encourage safe storage by not collection sales tax on gun safes.

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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-24-03 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #28
36. The corrupt gun industry says so
so it must be so, eh, dozer?

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1a2b3c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
29. Letting you in on a little secret of washington
Spokane is more republican than the entire state put together. I seriously doubt they would want more gun control than the rest of the state.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-24-03 09:03 AM
Original message
Gee,skipper....
Doesn't much matter whether they want to or not, thanks to the corrupt gun industry and the GOP...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-24-03 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #29
37. Gee,skipper....
Doesn't much matter whether they want to or not, thanks to the corrupt gun industry and the GOP...
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grayfoxofwinter Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #13
38. Nonsense, MrBenchley
Initiative 676 in 1998 would have done what you asked, but it was defeated on a statewide vote of 71 percent.

Spokane is the most conservative part of the state. Even if the provisions of RCW 9.70 on preemption were not in effect, Spokane would most likely not enact a trigger lock law. In fact, I would highly doubt that a trigger lock would make a difference here.

Think about it this way: You put a trigger lock on a loaded gun. This 17 year old would have figured out a way to jimmy the lock or take it off. There's plenty of material on the internet that gives tips on how to do this (a la the Anarchist's Cookbook), or if the trigger lock is not put on correctly, it wouldn't be hard to manipulate the lock to do the trigger pulling for you.

On other matters bothering me:

That being said, Washington has had it's Concealed Pistol Licensing system since 1961, longer than any other state in the country (though it's not at issue here, the 17 year old was not eligible under federal or state law to even possess a handgun for his own use). People would see your attempts at passing gun control as "So? We've been shall-issue on carry permits and almost no restrictions elsewhere for decades." Even our fellow Democrats in Washington don't think gun control is a big issue like you do.

If you want to make a statement, then focus your energies on banning concealed carry in New Jersey. Right now, there are 800 permits valid there, only issued rarely to certain kinds of people. You believe that guns are bad, right? Then push the legislature to ban concealed carry entirely for everyone in the state of New Jersey.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. Mind your own peapatch then
"If you want to make a statement, then focus your energies on banning concealed carry in New Jersey. Right now, there are 800 permits valid there"
Gee, seems like I've done a pretty damn good job, then....

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