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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 03:38 PM
Original message
Violent Radicalization Act: Concern v. Hysteria
H.R 1955, the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007, passed the House 404-6. It was then submitted to the Senate as S. 1959 with the same name.

This bill will do two things if enacted into law.

It first establishes a commission to produce a report on both the causes of violent radicalization and any appropriate legislative solutions to be able to frustrate this process. The commission is authorized to hold hearings, it is given a budget and permission to use the U.S. Postal Service, and it has 18 months to produce this report. Once the report is issued, the commission ceases to exist 30 days later.

It also establishes an Center of Excellence that will continue to study this problem for the Department of Homeland Security. Many COEs exist for many various reasons, and can be established by corporations, private individuals, or the government. Any COE authorized by the government must be authorized by Congress, which is why this bill exists.

The Center of Excellence is a research group and thus is usually administered by a university. This COE is no different.

The final part of the bill reads as follows:

SEC. 899E. PROTECTING CIVIL RIGHTS AND CIVIL LIBERTIES WHILE PREVENTING IDEOLOGICALLY BASED VIOLENCE AND HOMEGROWN TERRORISM.

`(a) In General- In carrying out this subtitle, the Secretary shall ensure that the efforts of the Department to prevent ideologically based violence and homegrown terrorism as described in this subtitle do not violate the constitutional rights, civil rights, and civil liberties of United States citizens and lawful permanent residents.

`(b) Commitment to Racial Neutrality- The Secretary shall ensure that the activities and operations of the entities created by this subtitle are in compliance with the commitment of the Department to racial neutrality.

`(c) Auditing Mechanism- The Civil Rights and Civil Liberties Officer of the Department shall develop and implement an auditing mechanism to ensure that compliance with this subtitle does not result in a disproportionate impact, without a rational basis, on any particular race, ethnicity, or religion and include the results of its audit in its annual report to Congress required under section 705.'.


It is therefore specifically mandated in the bill that any legislative solution or action of the commission or COE must not violate the civil liberties and constitutional rights of any American citizen or legal permanent resident.

There are some problems with this bill. Both the ACLU and the Center for Constitutional Rights have been monitoring its passage. From the ACLU:

http://www.aclu.org/safefree/general/32886prs20071128.html

The framework established by the measure will unavoidably make the focus of the commission the bill creates more likely to lead to unconstitutional restrictions on speech and belief – in addition to more appropriate restrictions on actions. Experience has demonstrated that the results of such a study will likely be used to recommend the use of racial, ethnic and religious profiling, in the event of a terrorist attack. We believe this approach to be counter-productive, and it will only heighten, rather than decrease, the spread of radicalization.


And the CCR:

http://ccrjustice.org/learn-more/faqs/factsheet%3A-violent-radicalization-and-homegrown-terrorism-prevention-act-2007

If we are lucky, the commission will just be a way for Congress and committee members to have a few meetings in expensive hotels and work on their tan. However the greater fear should be the possible future outcomes of any report, which will focus in on passing additional federal criminal penalties that are sweeping and inclusive in criminalizing dissent and protest work more surveillance on thought rather than on actions. Further this bi-partisan attempt can set the ground for an even more acquiescent Congress to Presidential power, never wanting to look weak on terrorism.


The CCR's objections come down to three points: the phrase "extremist belief system", the emphasis on the Internet in the bill, and the word "force." Each approaches what the ACLU calls "unconstitutional restrictions on speech and belief."

The Senate committee considering this bill would do well to define "extremist belief system" and "force" in a way that makes it clear what is being isolated. People engaged in non-violent protests should not be considered terrorists for exercising their First Amendment rights. Many in Congress may feel that Section 899F quoted above guards against this well enough. However, a little extra effort in committee can defuse these two troublesome spots, and we should urge Congress to do so.

The last, emphasis on the Internet, is no doubt what has sparked the massive onslaught you have experienced against this bill.

No one can deny that the Internet is a tool, able to be used for good or ill. Its incredible power to bring people together and make information accessible has brought unparalleled good to our world, but it has also enabled terrorists to conduct their business on an unparalleled scale as well. This is undeniable.

However, we have been treated in the past few weeks to a deluge of hysterical rants, accusing this bill of incredible offenses against the American people. It will set up a Star Chamber, some say, judging people to be terrorists by any standard whatsoever. Write your Congressperson and threaten to withhold your vote and you shall be called a terrorist! Quakers and Al Gore could be arrested!

This bill has been painted as a bludgeon to completely silence dissent in the United States of America, and it simply is not. This bill is not becoming a part of the criminal code. It criminalizes no activity whatsoever. No agency is empowered to enforce any penalty at all.

Again and again I have asked people ranting about this bill to produce the specific language justifying such outrage. To date, no one has done so.

Indeed, this hysteria clouds the actual concerns about the bill. If the Congress is swamped with calls and letters ranting about the loss of civil liberties and they then actually read the bill, the objections will be seen as foolish and cast aside. There is a reason that the bill passed 404-6, and it is not that no one read it. They did.

It is PORK, ladies and gentlemen. It's an easy vote to take back home and say that Congress is doing something about terrorism. The ACLU is "working with senators to improve First Amendment and civil liberties protections in the Senate version of the legislation," and we should support them in this, not hinder them.

The bill seeks a way to frustrate terrorism while maintaining civil liberties. This is its plain, unforced meaning. If it can be done, it should be done. If the concerns of responsible organizations like the ACLU and the CCR can be met, then no one in America should fear the slightest slosh of tanning lotion that results from this bill.

I beg you to read this bill, realize the true problems with it, and respond with an appropriate level of concern. Chicken Little pronouncements only hurt the efforts to amend this bill.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. The major problem I have with this bill is:
It is a new program that will basically fund research groups, working for the Center and reporting to the Commission focusing on how someone becomes a "radical" or a "terrorists".

Once groups get funding they will not easily give that money up. It is the nature of the beast that they will seek to prove themselves relevant and necessary. They will publish papers, produce definitions and make recommendations.

It may start innocently enough, but, just as other "terrorists" programs eventually expanded to include average citizens this probably will as well.

It doesn't seem necessary, so it will most liking be abused.

The problem is not what the bill calls for, as much as, how it could be used. Especially when added to the many other fascist tools already being used to suppress and intimidate.
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MindPilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. What manifestations of "violent radicalization" have we seen in the US?
The Murrah building, the Olympic bombing, and abortion clinics. All perpetrated by nice white Christian boys. Does a special study commission need to be set up to figure that out?
School shootings? Again, it doesn't take a network of universities and boatloads of cash to find what went wrong.

In the context of "they hate us for our freedom" terrorism, the only instances of "cells" operating in the US have been frauds perpetrated by overzealous law enforcement.

Since dozens of academic institutions are already studying terror in its various forms, the bill is obviously completely unnecessary; so why is it here? I believe the government--our-go-along-to-get-along Democrats included--want to invent reasons to redefine terrorism to include dissent and give it a nice plausible academic candy coating.

So it's ONLY to set up a study? IWR was ONLY to give Bush the option. ONLY foreign suspects would be wiretapped. The Patriot act was ONLY to used for finding terrorists. Of course it has a section "guaranteeing the rights of US citizens would be protected". So does the Bill of Rights and you see how much attention they pay to that. The bottom line is I do NOT trust this government to do ANYTHING in the best interests of the people.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Which is why I smell a barbeque firing up
Also, Barack Obama should watch himself on this one. The bill is in his Senate committee.
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. If you're an almanac carrier, be on the watch for FBI harassment
Edited on Tue Dec-04-07 04:49 PM by EVDebs
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=226&topic_id=5691&mesg_id=5900

Also, the IWR for the war on terror of Sept 2001 and the Oct 2002 Iraq War resolution gave Bush powers "as he determines"

Sept 2001 AUMF
http://news.findlaw.com/wp/docs/terrorism/sjres23.es.html

"SEC. 2. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.

(a) IN GENERAL- That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons."

Which is why defining and declaring 'homegrown' dissenters lumped in with real jihadists appears to be what this S 1959 is all about

Think thoughts that put the administration in a bad light, such as any thoughts that the administration participated in an 'inside job' either MIHOP or LIHOP on Sept 11, 2001, and you can find yourself under the microscope of the 'intelligence community'.

On the other hand, this law could just as effectively be turned on the Bush administration itself should war crimes, which Richard Perle seems to have just admitted to in a DU post, be put into effect.

Read this DU post,

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2398579

Be careful what you wish for, in other words.



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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hey, this bill is in Barack Obama's Senate committee
Getting in front of this issue responsibly would be a good issue for him.
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. If they define the PNAC neocon agenda as a violent homegrown ideology BINGO ! nt
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
7. Radicalization of ANY group begins with disenfranchisement.
and is further enabled by poverty.

You know, what the current administration, with the complicity of Congress is allowing to happen to the majority of Americans.

You can send the check directly to me. Morans.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. If the American government just bombed your house and killed your family...
...you might be radicalized.

Yes, there is all of that.
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-08-07 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
9. Sections of D/U could be hit with the Radicalization tag.
This is one scary bill.
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luapnor Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. HR 1955 rammed thru under cover of fire.
HR 1955 was rammed through under cover of fire, the California fires that is. Since the bill doesn't specifically define what an extremist belief system is, it is entirely up to the interpretation of the government. Scary.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd318.htm

so it's now seems that Bush, Kerry, Clinton/Obama, Giuliani/Perry are flipsides of the same coin, same poison. We are led to believe that we make a choice. Illusion.

United we Stand. Divided we Fall America. Wake up. Choose luapnor.
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