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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-25-07 11:11 AM
Original message
Educate me about chemtrails
I know it is a controversial topic. A friend just sent me these youtubes:

Aerosol Attack
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBjDSNWiuKQ

Stop Spraying Us
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2BgGlpBVew

Chemtrail Activist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xcf84CFEKQ

My friend is a good liberal Democrat, but not a scientist. Needless to say, neither am I.

So what can you tell me? Is this a legitimate fear or should I get my friend a :tinfoilhat:?
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achtung_circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-25-07 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
1. Legitimate? No. nt.
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Vexatious Ape Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-25-07 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
2. They are not spraying us.
Those trails are water vapors.
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youngdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-25-07 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
3. This issue was invented by tin foil manufacturers to boost sales
and is only subscribed to by those not properly medicated.

It is water vapor. Nothing more.

Carry on.
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-25-07 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. OMG! What are they spraying us with????
I'm just gonna throw this out there, but it seems to me the conspiracy theorists could just charter a plane and sample the air themselves and end all the speculation once and for all.

But then again, conspiracy theorists rarely use logic.

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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-25-07 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Good point
:hi:
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Mrs. Overall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-25-07 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
4. NBC news did an interesting, more scientifically speculative report on "chemtrails"
over a town in CA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIAWWL4HQDg&mode=related&search=

I'm not sure if chemtrails are real or not, but this report was interesting in terms of weather modification.
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bahrbearian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-25-07 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Good Link
Scarey stuff.
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-25-07 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
5. it's true - check it out yourself - there is tons of the truth out there

it's not tinfoil
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-25-07 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. I agree...chemtrails are not tinfoil....
....they are water vapor.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-25-07 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. But I am checking it out
DU is a great source!
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-25-07 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
11. Completely groundless, it's a myth by tin foil hatters.
It's based on a deliberate lack of understanding about how contrails work on the part of the people spreading this sort of thing, combined with paranoia and a healthy dose of bad science.
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-25-07 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Yeah, sure....you may be fancy with all your book learnin' and stuff...
....but people who are "in the know" are perfectly aware that invisible fairies jump up on the wings of planes just before take off and spread their evil pixie dust when the plane reaches a certain altitude.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-25-07 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
13. Tinfoil hat pseudoscience and superstitious nonsense.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-25-07 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
14. Just wondering
But if you had a bunch of liquid chemicals that you wanted to get rid of, is there a better place than in a turbine miles above the ground?

So, is it possible that included in the jet fuel is a small amount of chemical additives that must be disposed of?
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-25-07 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. The Mob takes care of that -- it's sold as heating oil.
No, I'm not kidding.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-25-07 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I can believe that
But then it makes sense that some of it could be put in the jet fuel, too?

I'm thinking that once the plane is in the air and the engines are well heated, that the tanks holding the slightly contaminated fuel are drained and burned.

No telling what the exhaust fumes would look like, and, frankly, in all my years of cloud watching I've never seen such long lasting and expansive contrails.

Now, with an increase in relative humidity (moisture), contrails do become more abundant. And soon thereafter because of that increasing moisture content, skies often turn overcast, yes, but what if there are some added elements to jet exhaust? What would weed-be-gone do as it is burned?
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-25-07 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
17. I would love to do so, but they are controlling my brain.
Where's Dennis Kucinich when you need him?
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soothsayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 03:54 AM
Response to Original message
18. keep watching the skies. part of USAF weather control prolly. or
who knows what. We get heavy coverage before a front moves in. They are different than contrails---chemtrails have been documented at temps/humidity that make contrails impossible.
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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 06:01 AM
Response to Original message
19. Dr Richard Alley said current research does not indicate there is any risk from the exhaust and
condensation from planes. His talk was mostly about global warming, but he said this in answer to a question after the lecture.
From our newspaper:http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Mar/10/br/br9702365418.html


"Global-warming lecture offered free at UH-Manoa

Advertiser Staff
Richard Alley, described as one of the world's leading climate researchers, will talk about global warming and other issues during a lecture Tuesday night at the University of Hawai'i-Manoa Campus Center Ballroom.

The event, which is free and open to the public, will begin at 7 p.m.

Alley's presentation is part of the UH-Manoa Distinguished Lecture Series centennial year program.

Alley, the Evan Pugh Professor of Geosciences at Penn St. University, has spent numerous field seasons in both Antarctica and Greenland studying the waxing and waning of ice sheets. His lecture presentation is titled, "Get Rich and Save the World: Global Warming, Peak Oil, and Our Future."

Alley has chaired a National Research Council study on Abrupt Climate Change, and serves, or has served, on other advisory panels and steering committees related to climate change. "
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
20. The Pigwidgeon Chemtrails Theory
They're real ... but they're not real sinister ... and they're not chemtrails caused by flying Pigwidgeons, either.

The parts of the atmosphere where the jets cruise -- the upper troposphere and lower stratosphere -- have been changed by AGW (Anthropogenic Global Warming) like everything else. According to many studies and observations, this part of the atmosphere has become colder, which has also been picked up by the "skeptics" keen on "debunking" AGW.

So it should surprise no one that in the mid 1990s, people who were paying attention to the weather noticed that jet contrails (short for vapor condensation trails -- the verbose term for them) were becoming more prominently visible. The non-sinister explanation is that when warm vapor hits extremely cold, dry air, at low ambient pressure, the droplets turn into ice crystals -- snow -- right away. The colder and more rarified the air, the faster it happens, and the better-formed the snowflake. The addition of burned fossil (jet) fuel can impart its own visual "fingerprint".

As with the idea of world-wide aerosol spraying, there is no cadre of certified Peers to Review this explanation, so the "skeptics" could just as easily jump on it, but I'm confident that it satisfies the criteria for theorizing set forth by those same Peers. The idea can be tested, it's based on previous, simple, and well-known observations, and invokes no deliberate human tampering with the weather -- and errors in results are attributed to the theory and/or the theorist, not the phenomenon! (I.e., I could be wrong. It has certainly happened before!)

And, also, I do not claim the idea as specifically "mine". That water vapor can quickly and dramatically freeze into ice at low temperatures and pressures is not a new discovery.

On the other hand, while I disagree with them, I prefer to go easy on the conspiratists. Their explanations may indeed be wrong, but their observations have been accurate. Many meteorological phenomena have been different in the past decade, some of them dramatically. When you have millions of pairs of eyes on an unknown phenomenen, you do tend to get a few good observations. And bad explanations are easily replaced with better ones.

We also can't dismiss that the idea appears to have been started by Edward Teller, one of the developers of The Bomb (yes, THAT Bomb). He wrote a paper proposing atmospheric spraying to reverse AGW "even before Algore (sic) invented it", in the words of the Freepers. Paul Krutzen, a scientist whose work was instrumental in establishing that halogenated gases (such as CFCs) were destructive to the ozone layer, recently also proposed shooting sulfur into the stratosphere, though only half-seriously. (The other half, incidentally, wasn't the irony that has become mandatory these days, but an expression of his growing alarm over AGW.)

Living in a culture where everyone MUST have an explanation, the more cynical, the better, leads to sometimes wild ideas. But as many a hipster sage has pointed out, paranoids live longer.

Should you be afraid? Yes, to a degree, since AGW will be potentially disastrous. But you can save the tinfoil for the next "global warming skeptics" conference.

--p!
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