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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 03:20 PM
Original message
How the Neanderthals became the Basques
How the Neanderthals became the Basques



David Noel


What happened to the Neanderthals?

From a combination of old and new evidence, it appears that at last we have a satisfactory answer to the age-old question of 'What Happened to the Neanderthals?'. If the current reasoning is correct, their descendants are still with us, and we call them the Basques.

This theory therefore simultaneously answers a second age-old question, 'What is the Origin of the Basques'?

Robert J Sawyer has recently published his book "Hominids" <2>, a fictional account of an interaction between Sapiens humans and Neanderthals, but drawing on the latest scientific research about Neanderthals.

This research included studies of DNA extracted from bones of Neanderthal remains. The account mentions five months of painstaking work to extract a 379-nucleotide fragment from the control region of the Neanderthal's mitochondrial DNA, followed by use of a polymerase chain reaction to reproduce millions of copies of the recovered DNA.

This was carefully sequenced and then a check made of the corresponding mitochondrial DNA from 1,600 modern humans: Native Canadians, Polynesians. Australians, Africans, Asians, and Europeans. Every one of those 1,600 people had at least 371 nucleotides out of those 379 the same; the maximum deviation was just 8 nucleotides.

rest at..

http://www.aoi.com.au/bcw/neanderbasque.htm
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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. Is this racist nonsense or real science??
Seems interesting and non judgemental.
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ijk Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Nonsense.
Read the full page. It's arrant nonsense with a faint gloss of actual science at the beginning; the various statements about DNA commonalities and the dating of the modern-human/neanderthal separation, which are real science, have nothing whatsoever to do with the flat-out silly reasons given for why Basques must be neanderthals (they're funny-looking and don't use the vowel "ee".) What it's doing here, I don't know.
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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I apologize for it...I needed to confirm.
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qb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
2. This looks like racist pseudoscience to me.
It essentially says Basques are a completely different species from Homo Sapiens.

I am suspicious of "scientific" web sites that:
1. Reference no reputable scientific sources.
2. Use other websites for the vast majority of their references.
3. Use a powder blue background.
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dsewell Donating Member (437 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
4. And if it turns out Al Qaeda was behind the bombings?
I understand the impulse to blame someone. If it was indeed ETA, I hope the European Community will do what it takes to put the ringleaders behind bars for good. But shouldn't we wait to see what comes of the reports that there may be an Al Qaeda link before smearing a whole people?

If it was Al Qaeda, you can bet they're not going to let ETA have the "glory"--they'll claim it, and it will probably be a verifiable claim. And then it will be a whole nother ballgame, as they say.
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. I believe I just read on LBN...
Edited on Thu Mar-11-04 03:51 PM by theHandpuppet
... that Al Qaeda has now claimed responsibility for the bombing.
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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
5. I am sorry if this is crap. Thanks for confirming
I need a reality check from people sometimes.
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
8. The first six paragraphs sounds like real science
But starting with the seventh it is all Crap (Just start with the word "Basque" onward and it is ALL crap.

Typical propaganda, use good Science (The DNA in the first six paragraphs) followed by racist nonsense.

Remember this little fact, we share 98% of our DNA with Chimpanzee (and 92% of our DNA with the common slug and every other creature that exists). DNA has its uses (Read the first six paragraphs) but do NOT try to use it for what it can NOT tell us (For example language, which most scientist believe is what differentiated Home Sapiens from all the other near relatives of Homo Sapiens, i.e. Not only Neanderthals, but Homo Erects etc.)

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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
9. Pseudoscience about Basques
They're from Atlantis.

They're from Mars.

The aliens bred them for some special purpose.

They're psychic.

There are so many wild-assed theories about the Basques, they could fill a book. These theories probably started because no one really knows where the Basques came from. In fact, several finds in the caves in that area (famous for their cave art) indicate that the Basques have been there in some form since people migrated to Europe 30-60 thousand years ago. In other words, they are (partially) the decendants of the cave dwellers in the area.

The "Neanderbasque" theory only makes sense if it can be proved that there was Neaderthal/Cro-Magnon mating going on. Although most of the evidence points against it, it's far from settled. However, the Basques are so physiologically like other nationalities and racial groups that it's unlikely they have Neanderthal genes at all.

Yes, the Basques have some strange things going for them, as Mr. Noel points out, but Rh negative blood and long schnozzolas don't exactly place Basques outside the human family. And his contention that the Basque language has very little use for the "ee" sound, and consists of only nouns, verbs, and suffixes is utterly ridiculous. I had the opportunity to learn (very) basic Basque this past summer, and it just ain't so. Basque has plenty of parts of speech, including a few not found in English, and it has a lot of words with the "ee" sound. And Noel seems to imply that Basques have an extra vertebra or a vestigal tail -- facts culled from two books on extraterrestrial meddling with the human race!

If you want to visit a website that has a lot of information of Basque people and culture, visit Buber`s Basque Pages. No aliens, no Martians, no tailbones, but lots of stuff about the Basques.

--bkl
Tails?
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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
10. I'm going to lock this
After some good discussion, even the original poster now believes that the link that is the subject of this thread has no merit.
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